I have searched in the forums and could not found a topic about this.
So, what is most importante to a GF? AC or Defense? and what is the difference between this 2 stats?
thanks!
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Post edited by tcheluelu on
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gentacleMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
If the servers were up, you could press C and look to the left of your HP in that window to see an icon, hover over it, and see exactly how much AC contributes to damage mitigation.
Think of it as the innate toughness of the item you're wearing (like wearing plate armor vs cloth armor in any mmo).
Defense and AC both contribute directly to damage mitigation and nothing else afaik.
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zingarbageMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
3 AC = 1% damage resistance. I'm not sure on the exact number for defense, but I seem to remember it was around 100 defense is equal to 1% damage resistance.
You don't really have to trade AC for Defense, so your question is badly formed. You ought to be asking whether you should stack stats between which you have to make a choice. (unless you have an item with a hugely higher Defense rating, but 1 point lower AC)
A better question is... Defense vs. Deflect.
AC is now the base rating of the chestpiece, and it only changes if you find a better chestpiece with a higher rating.
Defense contributes directly to how much incoming damage you can withstand, from all sources. Deflect contributes to your chance to avoid (mitigating 50%) of incoming damage.
For a tank class, the better choice would be defense, since the returns are more consistent. But there is likely an optimal combination of Defense vs. Deflect that i'm sure the genuis mathematician theorycrafters will inform us of eventually
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cihuacoatlMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Well in the end I don't think we have a lot of choices. There will be 1 set of gear that you will use that will force you to end up with some distribution that the developers choose for you...
However until then I am shooting for a 2:1 Defense : Deflect ratio. Meaning 40% defense resist to 20% deflect (though as a halfling my real goal is 25%)
This will do two things:
Reduce that 10k hit to 6k (yes I know the math doesn't work like that but keeping it simple)
Then 1/4th of the time that 10k hit is reduced to 3k (that is an average of 750 reduction per hit or compared to damage resist ~7%)
Given that math 3:1 is the over all damage resist ratio of deflect or 3% deflect = 1% damage resistance
Remember heals are small and fast in this game and the likely hood of getting 1 shot is little. In the end it is all going to come down to how much damage can be avoided one way or another.
You don't really have to trade AC for Defense, so your question is badly formed.
That might be true at endgame but is a very possible scenario when levelling.
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argan77Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
In most games, mitigation (Defense) is better than avoidance (Deflect) for the tank due to consistent damage is better than random (we all "love" the random number generator in games). Is some games, the block mechanic is good because the percent chance to block end game is almost always (75% or more), reducing the randomness to a manageable number. For this game, I guess there are two questions to be answered to determine which is better: Defense or Deflect.
Can we get enough Deflect end game for it to work the majority of the time?
The second question is based on the unique block mechanic (guard) of this game. When something hits a guard, we lose stamina, which we can only generate a certain amount per second. If Deflect is calculated before the guard, it might work out to be better than Defense since it will effectively reduce how much stamina regeneration is needed to sustain guard. At the same time, the same question goes to defense: is the reduction before or after the hit to our guard? Defense will most likely be better if it reduces the damage done to our guard, assuming we can't get our avoidance to a very high percent end game.
I'm not high enough level to answer either of these questions, so someone else will have to give the additional information I am missing.
I think AC is a flat % and defense scales meaning you'll need more defense to get 1% the higher your level. I know crit chance does this because I had over 40% crit chance with the Greycloak weapons when I first got them but they only gave me around 10% by the time I got close to lvl 20. I haven't checked in a while but I remember my newbie CW had a single piece of armor that gave him 5% resistance, it only had 1AC and I'm pretty sure it had less than 100 defense on it.
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vagrantzeroMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
3 AC = 1% damage resistance. I'm not sure on the exact number for defense, but I seem to remember it was around 100 defense is equal to 1% damage resistance.
So roughly 33 defense = 1 AC.
This is not the case for my GWF. 2 AC = 1% damage resistance.
I think AC is a flat % and defense scales meaning you'll need more defense to get 1% the higher your level. I know crit chance does this because I had over 40% crit chance with the Greycloak weapons when I first got them but they only gave me around 10% by the time I got close to lvl 20. I haven't checked in a while but I remember my newbie CW had a single piece of armor that gave him 5% resistance, it only had 1AC and I'm pretty sure it had less than 100 defense on it.
What you say is true. As you level you need more a stat to produce a similar result.
Defense also has a more complicated formula I haven't bothered to try and figure out but here's some numbers (at level 60):
Defense = Damage Resistance %
1,924 = 27%
1,774 = 25.9% (150 less = 1.1% less)
1,424 = 23.2% (350 less = 2.7% less)
1,274 = 21.8% (150 less = 1.4% less)
1,054 = 19.5% (220 less = 2.3% less)
Basically it's the usual MMO system for defense/mitigation stats. The more you have the more of the stat you need to get 1% mitigation but because of more complicated math stuff it isn't actually diminishing returns in a real way. The numbers on paper just make it "appear" like diminishing returns but your net survivability gain per point of defense will remain roughly the same all the way up.
Comments
Think of it as the innate toughness of the item you're wearing (like wearing plate armor vs cloth armor in any mmo).
Defense and AC both contribute directly to damage mitigation and nothing else afaik.
So roughly 33 defense = 1 AC.
A better question is... Defense vs. Deflect.
AC is now the base rating of the chestpiece, and it only changes if you find a better chestpiece with a higher rating.
Defense contributes directly to how much incoming damage you can withstand, from all sources. Deflect contributes to your chance to avoid (mitigating 50%) of incoming damage.
For a tank class, the better choice would be defense, since the returns are more consistent. But there is likely an optimal combination of Defense vs. Deflect that i'm sure the genuis mathematician theorycrafters will inform us of eventually
However until then I am shooting for a 2:1 Defense : Deflect ratio. Meaning 40% defense resist to 20% deflect (though as a halfling my real goal is 25%)
This will do two things:
Reduce that 10k hit to 6k (yes I know the math doesn't work like that but keeping it simple)
Then 1/4th of the time that 10k hit is reduced to 3k (that is an average of 750 reduction per hit or compared to damage resist ~7%)
Given that math 3:1 is the over all damage resist ratio of deflect or 3% deflect = 1% damage resistance
Remember heals are small and fast in this game and the likely hood of getting 1 shot is little. In the end it is all going to come down to how much damage can be avoided one way or another.
That might be true at endgame but is a very possible scenario when levelling.
Can we get enough Deflect end game for it to work the majority of the time?
The second question is based on the unique block mechanic (guard) of this game. When something hits a guard, we lose stamina, which we can only generate a certain amount per second. If Deflect is calculated before the guard, it might work out to be better than Defense since it will effectively reduce how much stamina regeneration is needed to sustain guard. At the same time, the same question goes to defense: is the reduction before or after the hit to our guard? Defense will most likely be better if it reduces the damage done to our guard, assuming we can't get our avoidance to a very high percent end game.
I'm not high enough level to answer either of these questions, so someone else will have to give the additional information I am missing.
This is not the case for my GWF. 2 AC = 1% damage resistance.
What you say is true. As you level you need more a stat to produce a similar result.
Defense also has a more complicated formula I haven't bothered to try and figure out but here's some numbers (at level 60):
Defense = Damage Resistance %
1,924 = 27%
1,774 = 25.9% (150 less = 1.1% less)
1,424 = 23.2% (350 less = 2.7% less)
1,274 = 21.8% (150 less = 1.4% less)
1,054 = 19.5% (220 less = 2.3% less)
Basically it's the usual MMO system for defense/mitigation stats. The more you have the more of the stat you need to get 1% mitigation but because of more complicated math stuff it isn't actually diminishing returns in a real way. The numbers on paper just make it "appear" like diminishing returns but your net survivability gain per point of defense will remain roughly the same all the way up.