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Loot Rolls need some work.
agrias34
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 71
Since there no longer is a feedback section, here's a thread regarding the whole loot system of Need / Greed / Pass.
Before I being, I would like everyone to know that this is my opinion, it isn't considered correct, only what I feel would improve quality gameplay and the betterment of Neverwinter in my eyes. I would love for everyone reading this to also give their feedback regarding this issue and let Cryptic/PW know how you feel about this system and what could they do to improve it for the betterment of the game.
Here's the problem:
You're in a random group for the level 60+ epic dungeons which drop some nice purple gears. My last group for example, had 2 GWF's, 1 GF, 1 cleric and 1 rogue.
Whenever a nice purple item would drop for let's say, rogues, everyone, and I mean everyone in the group would roll NEED for the item. Why? Because they can sell it for astral diamonds on the marketplace. I've done 3 runs today in Cloak Tower epic, sort of the beginner dungeon for level 60's and not 1 person in any of those runs actually won gear suited for their class, it was ninja'd by some other class who couldn't use it, but only rolled NEED to be able to make profit from the item.
What I'm trying to get at is that there really should be no reason a class that cannot use a specific piece of gear have the ability to roll NEED for it. Only a rogue should be able to roll NEED on a rogue item, and would be forced to either GREED or PASS for everything else that isn't meant for a rogue.
Now, before a lot of you trolls and haters start posting negativity towards this, YES, I am aware that a common solution to this problem is Joining a guild and running with people and friends you trust. However, there are times where they aren't available, or you don't have time to do that, or you are just unsocial and incapable of joining a guild. Whatever the reason, it is asinine that other classes are essentially stealing gear from those that actually need it, so they can just make some small profit from selling it.
I would really love to hear what the community also has to say about this, and leave some constructive feedback or counterpoints on my argument so we can make Neverwinter a better place.
TL;DR Shouldn't be allowed to roll NEED on items you can't use.
Before I being, I would like everyone to know that this is my opinion, it isn't considered correct, only what I feel would improve quality gameplay and the betterment of Neverwinter in my eyes. I would love for everyone reading this to also give their feedback regarding this issue and let Cryptic/PW know how you feel about this system and what could they do to improve it for the betterment of the game.
Here's the problem:
You're in a random group for the level 60+ epic dungeons which drop some nice purple gears. My last group for example, had 2 GWF's, 1 GF, 1 cleric and 1 rogue.
Whenever a nice purple item would drop for let's say, rogues, everyone, and I mean everyone in the group would roll NEED for the item. Why? Because they can sell it for astral diamonds on the marketplace. I've done 3 runs today in Cloak Tower epic, sort of the beginner dungeon for level 60's and not 1 person in any of those runs actually won gear suited for their class, it was ninja'd by some other class who couldn't use it, but only rolled NEED to be able to make profit from the item.
What I'm trying to get at is that there really should be no reason a class that cannot use a specific piece of gear have the ability to roll NEED for it. Only a rogue should be able to roll NEED on a rogue item, and would be forced to either GREED or PASS for everything else that isn't meant for a rogue.
Now, before a lot of you trolls and haters start posting negativity towards this, YES, I am aware that a common solution to this problem is Joining a guild and running with people and friends you trust. However, there are times where they aren't available, or you don't have time to do that, or you are just unsocial and incapable of joining a guild. Whatever the reason, it is asinine that other classes are essentially stealing gear from those that actually need it, so they can just make some small profit from selling it.
I would really love to hear what the community also has to say about this, and leave some constructive feedback or counterpoints on my argument so we can make Neverwinter a better place.
TL;DR Shouldn't be allowed to roll NEED on items you can't use.
Post edited by agrias34 on
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I agree, but i doubt it will happen. The other solution is to roll need yourself if you see people doing that. It's probably what others are doing, oh well. :P
Ya, in which case I usually do, but still. Just want to hear what others have to say on the issue to see what we can do about it.
I understand where you are coming from, and I know it well how such a need/greed/pass loot system works in MMOs: You either need on everything if you are with random people, as you assume they would do the same, and you dont want to loose out on loot. Or you run with people you know, and use the loot options correctly.
Your suggested solution still raises 2 questions:
- What if even the rogue would not wear the item, as he already got similar or better, and he is just taking it with rolling need for the exact reason you mentioned above, to sell it on the AH. Why should we give preference to him in this case?
- Gearing up your alts? At the moment, the system doesnt limit this. Should we limit the ability of players to run a dungeon just to get gear for their other character?
FF
I have only had good groups so far where players rolled fairly, but that is luck, and it's with people who paid money.
if the item is not for your class, you should only be allowed to roll greed/pass
yes, it should be like this
It's not safe as pugs.
In soviet russia, loot rolls you.
Regards~
The Shadow Cast Channel - Neverwinter Gameplay
If you want loot don't do dungeons with PUGs. It's simple as that.
That may be, but we are allowed to, at least, expect some return from the devs on this issue. This is, and stays, a sensitive subject amongst many players.
I agree with being able to roll need for an item only if you can use it, by definition if you can't use it and are rolling it to sell it it is a greed roll.
You either need separate loot system or loot history (things already looted decreases the next rolls - system implemented by many communities needed fair loot).
Until then, just find good guild or pay the price for random groups.
/agree, this sais it all
That wouldn't make people who can't use it roll GREED instead of NEED.
This is true but, its also easy to just disable the need button if the item is not your class, the loot roll already tells you when an item is not your class so it should be realy easy to disable the button.
Allowing need rolls only for gear that that your class can use, at least for blues and purples, would fix the major flaw. Losing to someone of the same class is bad luck. Losing it to someone who cannot use it and will just sell it is falling victim to anti-social behavior.
It is a problematic scenario where you have to choose to either get screwed over or to join the gutter and engage in the same behavior. It does not make for a friendly community.
+1. I think we should need a karma system for the forums soon :P
Of course this topic arises in every mmo that doesn't have incorporated the genius solution WoW came up with (or at least I think they came up with it, since they had the similar problem in the beginning.). The player must not be allowed to roll on gear he/she is unable to wear with the class she is running the dungeon with. As long as the game doesn't incorporate such a system these posts will recur. And rightfully so. This should definitely be something they should implement soon.
Or a system that let's one votekick a party member for taking to many NEEDs. But then again, the damage is already done. Or halve ones roll (e.g. 1-50 after 1 NEED, 1-25 after 2 NEEDs) for every NEED they pick when they can't use given item.
I'll say it straight.. This is not WoW here this is a new game that is suppose to be new edge. That being said I don't see why the developers cannot simply alter the roll or loot system to only allow the need roll if your character you are on can use it. Yes there will be people who can need it even if they have it or if they have better equipment but.. that would at least limit it to something that is not as unfair..
I think I may just start needing everything in dungeons tbh regardless of whether or not I can use it.. though tbh I would rather it be fair and have people level up their character and farm on that character rather then just needing on everything for the alts or whatever. Though I think I will just start needing on everything since the world is full of greedy lil F@cks
Well that's funny , which server are you playing on right now ? On the server I play atm i've yet to see someone roll need on an item that is not for him / her .
If the person who can use it actually does have better gear, then they can roll greed to share the roll. The benefits of this system outweigh the downsides - it is harder to exploit than a free-for-all needing system.
Make T1 and T2 BoP or maybe a 5% chance of all epics you find to be BoE the rest are BoP. So there is still a chance to buy gear from AH but just way less, most gear will be BoP so only usefull to vendor it. Get rid of this stupid buying best gear from AH!
fix yo shiet.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
I also immediately say, "Hi, how are you all doing this evening" when joining a group. Usually If I don't say a word in a PUG, no one does. I just make sure everyone knows im here and attentive. If no one says a word in party chat sometimes I become a little worried, but so far no ones every been a kittenhat in my groups.
A word of suggestion, in PUGS, make sure communication is there from the start.
(But I am certain it still happens, not saying it doesn't. And I totally agree it needs to be looked into and a different system put into place. Ive noticed though pugs lack communication until its too late.)
Edit: and with a gametag like mine. people are probably more worried about me than I of them. But yah Id rather play fair and let all enjoy the fruits of dungeoneering.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
I play on the Dragon server and this kind of behavior is ABSOLUTELY rampant. in just about every single PUG group I have joined there is at least one person in the group who need rolls everything.
When I take offence to it, the first argument I hear is that "everything is unidentified so we have to roll need".....here's a big hint .....EVEN UNIDENTIFIED ITEMS DISPLAY CLASS RESTRICTIONS on their tool-tips if you actually take the time to look. So that excuse does NOT hold water. I cant even begin to count how many times I have watched someone "need" roll an unidentified item that had a class restriction on it simply because they could not be bothered to examine the item they rolled on before doing so. And yes, I realize that there are some items (mainly green and white jewelry and belt items) that are "universal" but even still, I personally consider it bad form to 'need' roll on a green item (without asking the groups permission first), and so do most other players I would think.
Now on to my suggestions for how to fix this FUBAR mess of a loot system.
1. Never...ever..allow a "need" roll on class redistricted items (regardless of item quality) not for the players class.
2. Make unidentified items with class restrictions show up with red icon overlays so that it is more readily apparent that it is, in fact, a class restricted item.
3. Make all dungeon loot that is "blue" quality or better "Bind on Acquire" so that the items can not be sold on the AH for a profit. At most it can be sold to a vendor for a few copper.
Number 1 removes the ability to "Ninja" the loot while in the dungeon, Number 3 removes the incentive for doing so, and Number 2 just makes it easier for the lazy folks who don't bother to check tool-tips before rolling.
PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!