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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › General Discussion (PC)

Clerics Sheath their Holy Symbols Incorrectly

asteriskcgyasteriskcgy Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
edited May 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
My friend getting bothered by the fact that Clerics, supposedly members of a religious order, put their holy symbols away on their left side, and upside down. Holy symbols shouldn't be upside down. If anything they should be stored right side up on the right side, or in front of their left leg.
Post edited by asteriskcgy on

Comments

  • toadoflickingtoadoflicking Member Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Technically, holy symbols would be in the form of an amulet or brooch. The kind of holy symbol we see in Neverwinter is wholly a game construct so that the cleric's implement is actually visible. As such, I don't think there are really hard and fast rules as to how they should be displayed when not in use.
  • asteriskcgyasteriskcgy Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Eh if there's an appearance of the symbol on the instrument, then it still ends up being upside down when sheathed like a sword. I'm also thinking about how Skyrim handled maces and other top heavy weapons by stashing them on the weapon arm's side facing up.

    Point being, most holy symbols when turned upside down essentially turn evil, and unless NW runs symmetrical symbols this will happen here as well.
  • astaziaastazia Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 51
    edited May 2013
    It doesn't matter if they are upside down or not, their design is cosmetic. It's not like they use shapes meant to represent a god or religion, it's not a holy cross.
  • asteriskcgyasteriskcgy Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    But shouldn't they? Isn't that the point of the symbol? To channel the power of one of the deities of NW? In this world it might as well be on par with a cross.
  • breathabreatha Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    How do you know how every god in NW likes their holy symbols to be stored??? A chaotic god may adore their symbol being stored upside down, or in dung for that matter! Are you saying that you personally know these gods?

    (If you do please put in a good word for me, cause every little bit helps)
    -Breatha, the fat and sassy Dwarf
  • astaziaastazia Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 51
    edited May 2013
    asteriskcgy wrote: »
    But shouldn't they? Isn't that the point of the symbol? To channel the power of one of the deities of NW? In this world it might as well be on par with a cross.

    Technically we should always use a symbol representing the god we pick at character creation, instead every cleric uses the same symbols that change randomly as you level and AFAIK don't actually represent any god(s). That would be something more worth complaining about. Many of the gods in D&D I don't believe would even have or support a metal rod like symbol like what we use.
  • syrumsyrum Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 168 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I wont get involved with the proper placement/positioning of holy symbols, but I will support that Clerics sheath their weapons poorly. It has annoyed me ever since I beta'd the game a few weeks ago. They just don't sit right... who in their right minds would sheath a weapon in this manner with the handle all up in the way of their arms? I say just lower the placement of the weapon on models.
  • manfrome15manfrome15 Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Most symbols in D&D don't have a "shape" that defines how they should be presented... like Amanuator (a.k.a. Lathander, Morning Lord or Pelor in Grayhawk) his symbol is in the shape of a sun with wavy flames sticking out of the disc shape like the rays of a sun drawn by a child, so that symbol wouldn't turn evil any which way you'd turn it since its shape is always that of the sun.

    I think even the gods of war use weapons as holy symbols so they in turn would not lose their "alignment" if turned upside down...

    and it's a game based off a game so it really shouldn't matter what real life religious rules dictate on how the symbols should be positioned... and methinks this whole argument smells strongly of the religious effigy that's in the shape of a cross that certain religious organizations use and take way too seriously...

    my personal religious symbol is the hammer of Thor, Mjolnir

    (edit: forgot that the forums don't allow non-english letters)
  • rabbiddograbbiddog Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    asteriskcgy wrote: »
    Eh if there's an appearance of the symbol on the instrument, then it still ends up being upside down when sheathed like a sword. I'm also thinking about how Skyrim handled maces and other top heavy weapons by stashing them on the weapon arm's side facing up.

    Point being, most holy symbols when turned upside down essentially turn evil, and unless NW runs symmetrical symbols this will happen here as well.

    Well, considering in D&D you can have an evil cleric....
  • namininamini Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Actually, I've experienced plenty of canon adventures where, in fact, the deliberate inverting of a holy symbol is considered heretic to that deity. Specifically, in the previous season of Encounters, "Against the Cult of Chaos," I specifically remember the false reptile lord worshippers hanging Lawbringer (Erathis?) symbols upside down underneath the temple.

    To those of you saying "Who cares?! It's a game!" .... seriously, go play WoW or something. This is a D&D game. It's based in one of the most recognizable and persistent gaming environments ever written. Consistency is important. Details are important. Roleplaying, yes, is important. We could play any MMO. There are hundreds out there. We play Neverwinter because it's Neverwinter.
  • breathabreatha Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I love these Forums. They get funnier and funnier! :cool:

    So versions 2.0 through 4 are consistent? okay.
    -Breatha, the fat and sassy Dwarf
  • namininamini Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    breatha wrote: »
    I love these Forums. They get funnier and funnier! :cool:

    So versions 2.0 through 4 are consistent? okay.

    Way to hone in on the true argument as flippantly as possible. Kudos. You're clearly adding a ton to the discussion here.

    And to answer your question: Yes. Mechanically? Of course not. The game has evolved, with each iteration trying to fit the needs of its generation of gamers, for better or worse (let's not make this a edition grognard fest, please).

    Storywise? Yes. Definitely a stretch at some points, but yes, absolutely. At every turn possible, creators and writers have tried their hardest to explain the progression of the story elements between the editions, including finding story-related ways to explain major mechanical overhauls, such as the dissolution of the Planes into the Astral Sea, the ascendance and descendance of particular gods and pantheons, across all the many realms that touch D&D. I could go on. Would you like me to?

    Your dismissive flippant attitude aside, the point here is that story elements are important to the people who love this game in this setting. Were I to play a Cleric of Erathis, yes, I would absolutely consider it a "bug" if I were to store my holy symbol upside down. It would be a profane act out of my character's behavior.
  • fr0gurtfr0gurt Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Well if the Battle Cleric class is ever implemented, their signature weapon would probably be a club or mace which could be stored head-up on their right hip Skyrim style. The Devoted Cleric could then be modified to store their symbol in the same manner.
  • labbblabbb Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    breatha wrote: »
    How do you know how every god in NW likes their holy symbols to be stored??? A chaotic god may adore their symbol being stored upside down, or in dung for that matter! Are you saying that you personally know these gods?

    (If you do please put in a good word for me, cause every little bit helps)

    I hate agreeing with a dwarf , specially this dwarf . But we orcs are encouraged to hang our holy symbols upside down . it makes it easier for the dieing elfs to read .
  • zbd18zbd18 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I worship an upside down God.
  • autoskorkzanyautoskorkzany Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    There's a much much more basic reason why the holy symbol is stored wrong. You wield the symbol with your left hand in game, try drawing anything stowed like that on your left side with your left hand. Also, a top heavy item like that would bang against your knee if stored like that, probably crippling you if you tried to run. If you were going to store something like that, it would only make sense if it was a balanced item and drawn with your right hand. Asterisk is right, if you're going to be drawing something top heavy like that you'll have to carry it looped head side up on the side of which hand you're going to be using it in. Think hammers, ever see how a tool belt works? Try stowing it the way they have it in game and you'll be in a world of hurt as you move around the worksite.
  • lerdocixlerdocix Member Posts: 897 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    asteriskcgy wrote: »
    Point being, most holy symbols when turned upside down essentially turn evil, and unless NW runs symmetrical symbols this will happen here as well.

    Doesn't matter, I love Aribeth anyway.
  • neolitheneolithe Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    what if their gods call for them to be stowed in that way? EVER CONSIDER WHAT THOSE GODS WANT? HAVE YOU?
  • breathabreatha Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    labbb wrote: »
    I hate agreeing with a dwarf , specially this dwarf . But we orcs are encouraged to hang our holy symbols upside down . it makes it easier for the dieing elfs to read .

    "It 'urts, don't it?"
    -Breatha, the fat and sassy Dwarf
  • breathabreatha Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    namini wrote: »
    Way to hone in on the true argument as flippantly as possible. Kudos. You're clearly adding a ton to the discussion here.

    And to answer your question: Yes. Mechanically? Of course not. The game has evolved, with each iteration trying to fit the needs of its generation of gamers, for better or worse (let's not make this a edition grognard fest, please).

    Storywise? Yes. Definitely a stretch at some points, but yes, absolutely. At every turn possible, creators and writers have tried their hardest to explain the progression of the story elements between the editions, including finding story-related ways to explain major mechanical overhauls, such as the dissolution of the Planes into the Astral Sea, the ascendance and descendance of particular gods and pantheons, across all the many realms that touch D&D. I could go on. Would you like me to?

    Your dismissive flippant attitude aside, the point here is that story elements are important to the people who love this game in this setting. Were I to play a Cleric of Erathis, yes, I would absolutely consider it a "bug" if I were to store my holy symbol upside down. It would be a profane act out of my character's behavior.

    Wow. I bow to your D&D expertise. Obviously you love this game, and take it very seriously. While I, too, love this game it is obviously not in the same serious fashion, nor even in the same league as you do. I'm certainly stepping out of this one. You win.

    But I just want to warn you that if you NEED every graphic to mimic your roleplay absolutely you will probably be disappointed. I do not say that in a flippant or sarcastic way - as I sometimes do. I am very serious. It just won't ever happen. I would suggest coding up a macro emote that has your character sheathing the holy symbol in the way you deem correct. That way you can hit a key and BOOM it's done the right way.
    -Breatha, the fat and sassy Dwarf
  • majzlikmajzlik Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    autoskorkzany wrote: »
    There's a much much more basic reason why the holy symbol is stored wrong. You wield the symbol with your left hand in game, try drawing anything stowed like that on your left side with your left hand. Also, a top heavy item like that would bang against your knee if stored like that, probably crippling you if you tried to run. If you were going to store something like that, it would only make sense if it was a balanced item and drawn with your right hand. Asterisk is right, if you're going to be drawing something top heavy like that you'll have to carry it looped head side up on the side of which hand you're going to be using it in. Think hammers, ever see how a tool belt works? Try stowing it the way they have it in game and you'll be in a world of hurt as you move around the worksite.

    Despite popular believe, swords and weapons were usually sheathed on the side of the using arm, unless they were too long to make it impossible. Especially if used together with shield, simply because drawing your sword from you left side of the hip, while holding a shield in your left arm, you can't very well cover yourself with the shield while drawing the sword.
  • rabbiddograbbiddog Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    breatha wrote: »
    Wow. I bow to your D&D expertise. Obviously you love this game, and take it very seriously. While I, too, love this game it is obviously not in the same serious fashion, nor even in the same league as you do. I'm certainly stepping out of this one. You win.

    But I just want to warn you that if you NEED every graphic to mimic your roleplay absolutely you will probably be disappointed. I do not say that in a flippant or sarcastic way - as I sometimes do. I am very serious. It just won't ever happen. I would suggest coding up a macro emote that has your character sheathing the holy symbol in the way you deem correct. That way you can hit a key and BOOM it's done the right way.

    Yup, I'd have to agree with this. If you are looking for that level of consistency between a MMO (a F2P MMO at that) and the tabletop game. Prepare to be disappointed on a regular basis. I chose to look at this game as a MMO BASED on the D&D world and not a MMO mimicing the D&D world.
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