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Discussion Topic: How do you view tanking in NW?

veeiveei Member Posts: 141 Arc User
edited April 2013 in PvE Discussion
I am GF and enjoying the class. Yes, I do think it has a few areas that need addressing, but overall those issues are not show stopping.

The question I want to propose is that of tanking style in NW. I will not say specific game names since I don't want this to get into a WoW this, or Rift that or any other flavor of specific game based answers. This is a generic, tanking theory difference between NW (an action oriented game) vs. a non-action, call it stationary or AoE style game.

Scenario 1: Boss encounter, you have Boss and adds. Some adds are small and one or two big ones. In the other style games, the Tank AoE taunts, and ALL mobs stick to them. The healer heals through it and no one else gets hit. Now I understand this is generic but you get my example. Now in NW, we all know you cant sit there and just GUARD all the time. Your guard will quickly break. But, if we get alot of adds on us plus the boss, they chew us up pretty good. So the proposed role of the GWF is to tank those adds while we hold the boss.

So my question is this the way you view it? As a tank for many years I always feel like a **** when I see mobs hitting someone but me unless it is in the mechanics. But in NW, it seems this is how they intend it to be. What are the other GF thoughts on this?

Scenario 1: Same question, just now make it a trash pull.

Look forward to the opinions.
Rigas Crimstone, Officer

"Perfecting the art of being a meatshield since 1998"

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Post edited by veei on

Comments

  • veeiveei Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Forums moving quick today.
    Rigas Crimstone, Officer

    "Perfecting the art of being a meatshield since 1998"

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  • nuenzanuenza Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I hear what u say, and ive been thinking of this aswell. Ive been a tank in other MMO's and i like the role of being the one that get to make everyone else feel "safe". But for some reason, in NW i cant tank the way i would like too.

    If i see adds running away from me, or in this case- i loose the threat- i get frustrated and tries to get it back as good as the mechanics lets me do it. And for all other GF who reads this- you know how frustrating it can be. we have 1 Aoe taunt- every 20 sec. Its just nuts when u have say like 15 adds spawning in.

    For a normal trash pull in NW i use mark, since thats the only range we have, and then jump in aoe taunt and try to get hold of them. If there is big dmg from the mobs and the cleric needs to heal- abit more- say an AOE heal, i loose aggro instant.

    Maby im playing it the wrong way, and if so- im willing to learn the new way of playing it. In my oppinion thou- its the tanking mechanincs that needs changing, say for example an threat mechanic on the filler attack?

    What do u guys think?
  • elyrielleelyrielle Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I think it's by design that the tank is really only supposed to 'tank' one or two things at a time, but help control the rest (and rely on the others to control and beat down the rest faster). As a control wizard I can lock down one target indefinitely and harass multiples pretty often, and yet I continue to see tanks bothering with the mob I have suspended in the air choking to death (hint: he's not hurting anyone)
  • hadril7hadril7 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I've only tanked a few instances so far and mostly lower level, but at this point it seems that the clerics can heal through most call it generic attacks, its the big show stopper attacks that I need to have the guard up for. so its mark, taunt cleave, other abilities as needed and when I see on of the big guys wind up its block time then.

    That said sometimes my taunt is on cd when a boss calls up adds and they run right to the healer, and the length of cooldown along with risk of training the healer with whats on me, does make it difficult in my so far limited view to pick up everything.

    Not sure 100% how the GWF fits into it yet.
  • symonhumbleuksymonhumbleuk Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 89
    edited April 2013
    I'm an old fashioned tank and like to keep aggro.
    However for this game, you have to just try and single out what is problematic, boss can be held and a few ads that usally spawn.
    Sometimes though, u just have to let the group deal with some of the mobs etc, just due to how the game is.
    It's not a complete holy trinity so...
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  • imivoimivo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,682 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    Clerics are the real tanks at the moment. ;)
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  • veeiveei Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    symonhumbleuk wrote: »
    I'm an old fashioned tank and like to keep aggro.
    However for this game, you have to just try and single out what is problematic, boss can be held and a few ads that usally spawn.
    Sometimes though, u just have to let the group deal with some of the mobs etc, just due to how the game is.
    It's not a complete holy trinity so...

    This is what I am gathering as well. Seems as though the GF is there for the big stuff and the smaller stuff is just dealt with or potentially the role of the GWF. Even a TR can tank the small adds to a degree with bait and switch.

    It is a change.
    Rigas Crimstone, Officer

    "Perfecting the art of being a meatshield since 1998"

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  • mewbreymewbrey Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 517 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    As a cleric, I kinda dislike being the groups off-tank I though the great weapon fighters would be off-tanks in all honesty, but with my 40% reduced threat I tank the entire room apart from a boss mob or if I do not use the 40% threat I tank everything including the boss mob.

    Right now I feel the threat in general needs to change, and the way tanking works with it. However the question is can a guardian fighter tank a boss and all the adds during boss encounters at max level, from the limited epic dungeons I've ran it would not seam viable to throw it all onto the tank, I would rather see GWF having a roll of picking up adds and taking them to the GF...

    But the one thing I am sure about, is that I am not happy being the groups off-tank as a devoted cleric!
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  • travismogtravismog Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I really want to see them getting the GWF up to being able to main tank. GWF is after all the second Defender class in the game.
  • veeiveei Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    mewbrey wrote: »
    Right now I feel the threat in general needs to change, and the way tanking works with it. However the question is can a guardian fighter tank a boss and all the adds during boss encounters at max level, from...

    And to answer that from a currently lvl 37 GF in OB and a level 60 in alpha the answer to that is no, we cant. If continually guard, our guard will broke very quickly. I think out mit is "ok" but to take ALL the adds and the bosses depending upon the fight, we wont last long.
    Rigas Crimstone, Officer

    "Perfecting the art of being a meatshield since 1998"

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  • kreslinkreslin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    So if I'm understood correctly, Guardian Fighters are boss-tankers, right? And job for other mobs for someone else, right?
  • ranncoreranncore Member, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 2,508
    edited April 2013
    kreslin wrote: »
    So if I'm understood correctly, Guardian Fighters are boss-tankers, right? And job for other mobs for someone else, right?

    It can go either way. At level 60 my guardian fighter has enough powers and points to rearrange his bar either for dashing around the map picking up adds or for standing toe-to-toe with the boss. It's a pretty versatile class, it can do what's needed.

    But yeah, tanking the boss AND the adds... that usually gets you killed :P I definitely don't have any problems getting and maintaining threat tho... a well specced GF is definitely capable of getting boss's and adds' aggro.

    Definitely my favorite class right now.
  • dixa1dixa1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    clerics are this games tanks until a 30 point heal doesnt do 4x the threat of a 1k crit ability from a tank/dps.
  • veeiveei Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    ranncore wrote: »
    It can go either way. At level 60 my guardian fighter has enough powers and points to rearrange his bar either for dashing around the map picking up adds or for standing toe-to-toe with the boss. It's a pretty versatile class, it can do what's needed.

    Definitely my favorite class right now.


    But the question is whether or not you can tank having the adds AND the boss at the same time and live. Thats really the question. And honestly, trash mobs maybe, but not boss encounters.
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  • ranncoreranncore Member, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 2,508
    edited April 2013
    veei wrote: »
    But the question is whether or not you can tank having the adds AND the boss at the same time and live. Thats really the question. And honestly, trash mobs maybe, but not boss encounters.

    I edited my post to include an answer to this question, but the short answer is no, nor do I expect or desire the class to be able to do that. The necessity and opportunity for an off-tank adds an interesting dynamic to group function and encounters.
  • veeiveei Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    ranncore wrote: »
    I edited my post to include an answer to this question, but the short answer is no, nor do I expect or desire the class to be able to do that. The necessity and opportunity for an off-tank adds an interesting dynamic to group function and encounters.

    And I agree 100%. This is not an AoE based tanking game so holding everything and being beat on is not how the game is designed.
    Rigas Crimstone, Officer

    "Perfecting the art of being a meatshield since 1998"

    Banners of the Light
  • kotlikotli Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 577
    edited April 2013
    You meant to either tank boss or tank the trash not both from what I seen.
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