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Cleric=Leader ?_?

fallenhawkfallenhawk Member Posts: 6 Arc User
edited April 2013 in PvE Discussion
Long with all the other roles classes fall under. I don't get it at all.

I say we change the GF with cleric and then it make more sense or change Leader to supporter so when they add a Buff and a Debuff class they could go under that . Just my two cents.

Don't for love of god say it doesn't fit in the PnP we can go off a bit and still feel like it a DnD game.
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I can still fight.
I will never give up!
Post edited by fallenhawk on

Comments

  • jetahjetah Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I was looking at the cleric feats and noticed quite a few buffs/debuffs. but then again i dont know much about what makes a leader a leader in this dnd world.
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  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Leader is the one who takes care of every member of the party and supports them. Thus if he sees a striker with low HP, he heals them - looking at DPS done by defender is low, he can debuff monsters - etc.

    That rol is shared by walords, clerics and oter classes who are support classes. Hence they are leader.


    The diversity of roles is what makes one a leader. Think of a king in chess - though he can move in only one step, he can move in any direction.
  • fallenhawkfallenhawk Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I didn't ask what a Leader is , I ask why is the Cleric under the Leader role . I say it doesn't match up for the Cleric class .
    I say it should be rename to fit it more better and the others classes that well come.
    [SIGPIC]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/Badbones/Mysig.png[/SIGPIC]
    I can still move.
    I can still fight.
    I will never give up!
  • savadioussavadious Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    fallenhawk wrote: »
    I didn't ask what a Leader is , I ask why is the Cleric under the Leader role . I say it doesn't match up for the Cleric class .
    I say it should be rename to fit it more better and the others classes that well come.


    It was clearly spelled out in perfect perspective broski
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  • nec0enec0e Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    he answered it, because out of all the classes it fits the role the best.
  • fallenhawkfallenhawk Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Well a cleric could easy go under the defender too if think about it. Anyway I'm asking now if we should change Leader to Supporter class.
    [SIGPIC]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/Badbones/Mysig.png[/SIGPIC]
    I can still move.
    I can still fight.
    I will never give up!
  • daemonstheredaemonsthere Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 111 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    If a combat orietned version of the Cleric would be added, then, maybe he could be a Defender. The DC has nothing from a defender, in spite of the speed in which he builds agroo.
    Why Leader ? Because in 4e d&d supporter = leader. Don't make problems with semantics
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  • erideitaerideita Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 304
    edited April 2013
    Leader = Supporter. That's the terminology D&D 4E uses.
    Tank = Defender
    Healer/Buffer/Debuffer = Leader
    DPS = Striker
    Controller = Well Controller

    I think you just don't agree with the terminology. I too think it makes no sense naming a healer "leader" since most of the time they don't lead anything, but that is how it is.

    And there is just no way a cleric can go under the defender role. They have absolutely no tools for efficient tanking and don't even have a shield.
  • jirodynejirodyne Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    erideita wrote: »
    And there is just no way a cleric can go under the defender role. They have absolutely no tools for efficient tanking and don't even have a shield.[/COLOR]

    They did. Once. Used to wear heavy plate armor too. With a Mace. Oh the good ole days when Clerics could actually heal! I miss those days.
    Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul,
    Ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
  • erideitaerideita Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 304
    edited April 2013
    Yes, that was back in D&D 3.5 :p I used to enjoy it too, but now in Neverwinter Clerics clearly can't be Defenders.
  • thevlakathevlaka Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    pen and paper is not video game.
  • jirodynejirodyne Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    erideita wrote: »
    Yes, that was back in D&D 3.5 :p I used to enjoy it too, but now in Neverwinter Clerics clearly can't be Defenders.

    I know. I miss it. Grouping up to complete quests, being able to heal and support an entire group, having to rely heavily on others cause I had no offence spells, only Buffs and heals. Makes me want to go play DDO again, when grouping and healing actually mattered in a DnD game
    Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul,
    Ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
  • fallenhawkfallenhawk Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Thanks you, Clariel for cleaning that up a bit. I still say a Cleric could tank if they can hold aggro and keep them self a live (talking Bosses and more then one monster btw). I have seen them do it in other games. Now I'm just going let it go for now.

    Peace and Love,

    FallenHawk.
    [SIGPIC]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/Badbones/Mysig.png[/SIGPIC]
    I can still move.
    I can still fight.
    I will never give up!
  • krafenkrafen Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 59
    edited April 2013
    Essentially, 4e calls healer classes "leaders" to emphasize that they also have support abilities. The designers wanted players to think of clerics, etc. as more than just "healbots".
  • urnusthebeatpoeturnusthebeatpoet Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    The purpose behind the categories in 4E D&D (and, by extension, Neverwinter) was to provide context, in a general sense, to how the class functions within a group, not just to define their role in combat. In the end, D&D is a role playing game, not a tactical combat simulator. Therefore, these categories (leader, defender, striker, controller) are more than just combat specifications.

    So why are healers/buffers/debuffers referred to as Leader in 4E? Simple, almost all of them use Charisma as a primary (bard, ardent) or secondary stat (warlord, cleric), and those that don't use Charisma are, in lore terms, considered people of great importance within their communities, people know for leading. AKA, when you got a group of 4 or 5 adventures, and they are talking to a King or a mighty Wizard or something, the person talking for the group (the "Face") is almost always the one with the highest Charisma score, or the one who will command the most respect from the NPC the party is interacting with. This person is the de facto leader of the party. Hence clerics and what not being termed "Leaders" even though they might not be the ones "leading the charge" on the battlefield, or what have you.

    I should add, not all people who play classes that are marked as Leader play them like Leader. In the 4E books, all classes get a primary and secondary class designators. So cleric, for instance, is Primary Leader, secondary defender or controller (I think, it's been a while). But someone who makes a cleric could easily make him in such a way where he accentuated the defender aspects of cleric and played him like a defender, mostly ignoring the parts of the class that really focus on being a leader. This might not be quite as effective of a cleric, overall, but would be every bit as valid. And if that's how you wanted to play you're cleric, more power to you!

    Sadly (but understandably), Neverwinter doesn't have that sort of flexibility. In the future, I am sure you'll see them put out a different type of cleric (or maybe just a different Leader class all together) that is more focused on melee/tanking/etc. The Devoted Cleric, the class in the game, is a straight forward interpretation of the Wisdom heavy 4E Leader Cleric, in all his heally, buffy, debuffy glory. That doesn't mean he is the best type of cleric, just the one that Cryptic/PWE has decided to go with at launch.
  • aevlomaevlom Member Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    jirodyne wrote: »
    They did. Once. Used to wear heavy plate armor too. With a Mace. Oh the good ole days when Clerics could actually heal! I miss those days.

    I miss my old cleric/assassin from the original first edition AD&D.
  • bak0nbak0n Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 58
    edited April 2013
    thevlaka wrote: »
    pen and paper is not video game.

    Apparently you never played the original Everquest.
  • aevlomaevlom Member Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    bak0n wrote: »
    Apparently you never played the original Everquest.

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  • faceplantmikefaceplantmike Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Devoted Cleric leads from the back, wooT!
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