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Please help: Why do I like this game?
kwsapphire
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 671 Arc User
A couple of weeks ago, a coworker of mine said "You're going to have to sit down and tell me some time what it is that you love so much about this game." This was shortly after BW3, and I had probably squealed or made some other similar noise while talking about it. This coworker of mine knows how much I loved City of Heroes, and how much it impacted me when City shut down. But he's not a gamer, and is totally unfamiliar with gamer culture. So.. why do I like this game? Why did I like City? Why do I like gaming in general, and MMOs specifically? Why DON'T I like other MMOs?
I know you guys don't know me well enough to determine why I like the game, but I am hoping that if I give you some details, you can help me figure out what it is I loved about City, why I like NW, and why I didn't like WoW or GW. I will give what detail I can, and I am hopeful that you guys can help me flesh this out!
- I played City of Heroes from May 2004 until the game was shut down in November 2012.
- I briefly tried WoW some time in 2005. I only spent about a half hour in the game. I don't remember much, but I do remember being TOTALLY CONFUSED as to what I was supposed to be doing.
- I've also heard a lot of things about WoW that turn me off. I don't know if they're still true, but things like "you must have the best loot or no one wants you on their team" and "you have to grind like crazy" and "If you die in the boonies, it can take you 30 minutes to get back to your body, at which point someone could have stole your stuff/whatever it is people do when they camp your dead body". Oh and "PvP whether you like it or not." I hate PvP. Any game that forces PvP on me is a NO GO.
- My uncle bought Guild Wars for me, since he played. I couldn't find him in the game. I had a hard time even chatting with him. We couldn't team up together. For missions, I was really confused as to where I was supposed to be going and what I was supposed to be doing. I would find myself out in some wilderness with no idea why I was there. And the only reason I agreed to play in the first place is because I thought I could team up with my uncle, which for some reason was not possible.
- I loved the Costume Creator in City of Heroes. That's what sucked me into the game. Obviously NW doesn't have a "costume creator" because none of us wears a costume, we all wear our loot. Like in WoW. And while the body-scaling in NW is certainly superior to City, as soon as you put on armor, all that body scaling disappears. So obviously having an amazingly robust costume creator is not essential for my enjoyment.
- On the other hand, I do want to be able to play "my" character. I was already not interested in DCUO, but then I heard that your back-story is pre-determined. No matter where you want your powers to have come from, too bad, you got them because Lex Luthor infected everyone with nano-bots from the future. So.. already not starting off too well.
- I also read that in DCUO, your level and stats don't matter nearly as much as your gear. You can be higher level than every mob in a mission, but if your "gear score" is too low, they'll annihilate you anyway. IMO, that's TOTALLY LAME. Additionally, apparently you have to have a really high gear score to participate in end-game (post 30?) content. And you have to grind for hundreds or thousands (THOUSANDS) of hours to get your gear score that high. Wow, total turn off.
- CO.. I didn't want to play CO. I had CoH. And after CoH was shut down, I just didn't want to make the switch to CO. I knew it wouldn't be City of Heroes, and there was nothing to draw me there.
- I have been playing in the Forgotten Realms since 1997. I've played nearly every iteration of Baldur's Gate/NWN for both PC and PS2/3. Do I love Neverwinter just because I am biased toward the setting?
- I like that NW is solo-friendly, but it's also easy to team up if you want to. Sometimes I only have a few minutes to play, so I don't want to spend time looking for a team. Soloing in NW seems really doable (at least through the mid-40s, which is as far as I got). But teaming up is also easy. I love the queue system.. I was so happy when they introduced it in City, and I'm glad to see it in NW.
- I also think I may be a snob and happy that I'm getting in "on the ground floor". The thought of joining a game that has already been in progress for a number of years is not at all attractive to me. Then I'd be a newbie amongst an army of veterans. This thought doesn't appeal to me. Does this make me elitist?
- I was afraid the action combat/mouse-camera would turn me off, but I adapted to it quickly. I was fine with CoH's tab targeting system, and I don't find NW's "action combat" to be "superior", but I find it to be tolerable. It was a lot easier to eat my dinner and still play City.. that's not possible in NW. :P But I still like the game, so that's not a "must have" either.
- While I do like some movies and books, I think I may like video games more for a number of reasons. It's interactive, I usually get to play "my character" instead of following someone else's character's story, and it's social. At least with MMOs.
- I also like that online social interaction is on my terms. If I go out somewhere or invite someone over, and then suddenly decide I'm bored or want to do something else.. it's harder to politely extract yourself from the situation. Whereas online, I can just be like "Okay bye peeps!" and log off. Or if someone is annoying me, I can just /ignore them. Which is not to say that I only ever want online interaction, but I'm pretty happy with online interaction being my main social outlet. (I realize this is also probably snobby/selfish.)
- I also like having different types of missions (kill boss, rescue, kidnap, find object, etc.), and also non-mission ways to have fun. In City, we had badge collecting, the costume creator (and costume contests), zone events, holiday/invasion events, and Pocket D (dance club, used as a hang out and also for RP). In NW, I think the crafting system is really neat, and the Moonstone Mask is a club of sorts. I don't know if NW will have a badge collecting system like City did, but the zone events are a lot of fun.
So... any insight anyone can give would be much appreciated. Is it really that hard to figure out what you're supposed to do on a quest in GW1? Or did I miss something obvious? Is it really that hard to chat with or team up with a specific friend in GW1? Is WoW really that confusing? Are WoW and GW really that different from NW? Are DCUO and CO really that different from City? Is there something obvious I'm missing that would explain why I liked CoH and like NW but didn't like GW and WoW, and wasn't even interested in trying out *any* other MMO?
My (now ex) used to tell me how complicated City sounded, and how complicated NW sounds. I showed him my NW videos (link in signature) and he was like "it's a totally different language". And yet I found NW to be very intuitive. Maybe it was all my years playing various forms of digital D&D. Maybe City of Heroes prepared me for the MMO-verse at large. I don't know! I think I could boil down the things I enjoy, but it still doesn't explain why I am totally NOT interested in some games, or why I found myself disliking them. Am I over-thinking it? GAHH!
Sorry this turned into such a huge post. I'd love the NW community's insight though, if yall care to give it. And thanks in advance! :]
I know you guys don't know me well enough to determine why I like the game, but I am hoping that if I give you some details, you can help me figure out what it is I loved about City, why I like NW, and why I didn't like WoW or GW. I will give what detail I can, and I am hopeful that you guys can help me flesh this out!
- I played City of Heroes from May 2004 until the game was shut down in November 2012.
- I briefly tried WoW some time in 2005. I only spent about a half hour in the game. I don't remember much, but I do remember being TOTALLY CONFUSED as to what I was supposed to be doing.
- I've also heard a lot of things about WoW that turn me off. I don't know if they're still true, but things like "you must have the best loot or no one wants you on their team" and "you have to grind like crazy" and "If you die in the boonies, it can take you 30 minutes to get back to your body, at which point someone could have stole your stuff/whatever it is people do when they camp your dead body". Oh and "PvP whether you like it or not." I hate PvP. Any game that forces PvP on me is a NO GO.
- My uncle bought Guild Wars for me, since he played. I couldn't find him in the game. I had a hard time even chatting with him. We couldn't team up together. For missions, I was really confused as to where I was supposed to be going and what I was supposed to be doing. I would find myself out in some wilderness with no idea why I was there. And the only reason I agreed to play in the first place is because I thought I could team up with my uncle, which for some reason was not possible.
- I loved the Costume Creator in City of Heroes. That's what sucked me into the game. Obviously NW doesn't have a "costume creator" because none of us wears a costume, we all wear our loot. Like in WoW. And while the body-scaling in NW is certainly superior to City, as soon as you put on armor, all that body scaling disappears. So obviously having an amazingly robust costume creator is not essential for my enjoyment.
- On the other hand, I do want to be able to play "my" character. I was already not interested in DCUO, but then I heard that your back-story is pre-determined. No matter where you want your powers to have come from, too bad, you got them because Lex Luthor infected everyone with nano-bots from the future. So.. already not starting off too well.
- I also read that in DCUO, your level and stats don't matter nearly as much as your gear. You can be higher level than every mob in a mission, but if your "gear score" is too low, they'll annihilate you anyway. IMO, that's TOTALLY LAME. Additionally, apparently you have to have a really high gear score to participate in end-game (post 30?) content. And you have to grind for hundreds or thousands (THOUSANDS) of hours to get your gear score that high. Wow, total turn off.
- CO.. I didn't want to play CO. I had CoH. And after CoH was shut down, I just didn't want to make the switch to CO. I knew it wouldn't be City of Heroes, and there was nothing to draw me there.
- I have been playing in the Forgotten Realms since 1997. I've played nearly every iteration of Baldur's Gate/NWN for both PC and PS2/3. Do I love Neverwinter just because I am biased toward the setting?
- I like that NW is solo-friendly, but it's also easy to team up if you want to. Sometimes I only have a few minutes to play, so I don't want to spend time looking for a team. Soloing in NW seems really doable (at least through the mid-40s, which is as far as I got). But teaming up is also easy. I love the queue system.. I was so happy when they introduced it in City, and I'm glad to see it in NW.
- I also think I may be a snob and happy that I'm getting in "on the ground floor". The thought of joining a game that has already been in progress for a number of years is not at all attractive to me. Then I'd be a newbie amongst an army of veterans. This thought doesn't appeal to me. Does this make me elitist?
- I was afraid the action combat/mouse-camera would turn me off, but I adapted to it quickly. I was fine with CoH's tab targeting system, and I don't find NW's "action combat" to be "superior", but I find it to be tolerable. It was a lot easier to eat my dinner and still play City.. that's not possible in NW. :P But I still like the game, so that's not a "must have" either.
- While I do like some movies and books, I think I may like video games more for a number of reasons. It's interactive, I usually get to play "my character" instead of following someone else's character's story, and it's social. At least with MMOs.
- I also like that online social interaction is on my terms. If I go out somewhere or invite someone over, and then suddenly decide I'm bored or want to do something else.. it's harder to politely extract yourself from the situation. Whereas online, I can just be like "Okay bye peeps!" and log off. Or if someone is annoying me, I can just /ignore them. Which is not to say that I only ever want online interaction, but I'm pretty happy with online interaction being my main social outlet. (I realize this is also probably snobby/selfish.)
- I also like having different types of missions (kill boss, rescue, kidnap, find object, etc.), and also non-mission ways to have fun. In City, we had badge collecting, the costume creator (and costume contests), zone events, holiday/invasion events, and Pocket D (dance club, used as a hang out and also for RP). In NW, I think the crafting system is really neat, and the Moonstone Mask is a club of sorts. I don't know if NW will have a badge collecting system like City did, but the zone events are a lot of fun.
So... any insight anyone can give would be much appreciated. Is it really that hard to figure out what you're supposed to do on a quest in GW1? Or did I miss something obvious? Is it really that hard to chat with or team up with a specific friend in GW1? Is WoW really that confusing? Are WoW and GW really that different from NW? Are DCUO and CO really that different from City? Is there something obvious I'm missing that would explain why I liked CoH and like NW but didn't like GW and WoW, and wasn't even interested in trying out *any* other MMO?
My (now ex) used to tell me how complicated City sounded, and how complicated NW sounds. I showed him my NW videos (link in signature) and he was like "it's a totally different language". And yet I found NW to be very intuitive. Maybe it was all my years playing various forms of digital D&D. Maybe City of Heroes prepared me for the MMO-verse at large. I don't know! I think I could boil down the things I enjoy, but it still doesn't explain why I am totally NOT interested in some games, or why I found myself disliking them. Am I over-thinking it? GAHH!
Sorry this turned into such a huge post. I'd love the NW community's insight though, if yall care to give it. And thanks in advance! :]
Post edited by kwsapphire on
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At least for me this is how i feel... we gamers are unique people we all share the joy of completion..
you also apply this irl .. i would bet ...
It's not that those games you mentioned and you didn't like are bad. I'll also tell you a bit about myself, so you can understand:
My first "MMO" ever was Phantasy Star Online, but, guess what? I could never play online (I owned a pirated copy of the game AND didn't have a modem to play). The thought of playing with other people all over the world was something from another world to me, back in the day.
Then I moved to Tibia. Since my only "experience" with MMOs were with PSO, I was rather new to this format. I remember having a love and hate relationship with the game. And, years later, I quit. I gave my Premium Account to a total stranger, and I quickly forgot about the game.
I then moved to Ragnarok Online. Oooh boy! This was my favorite MMORPG ever. I participated in the brazilian server Open Beta since the beginning. I have really fond memories of all the characters I made in my nearly 3 years of playing it. Despite it being a horrible grindfest, I loved the **** game.
I moved to Lineage II. The amount of classes and the graphics just blew my mind up. And, to this day, it has the best Guild system I've ever seen in a MMO.
I also played Granado Espada/Sword 2. I loved how original the game was, with its Stance System determining basic roles in combat (I even posted something similar as a suggestion here, albeit without the stat changes!). I hated how truly P2W it was.
Then I moved to Mabinogi. It's hands down the best MMO I ever played to this day. I played for 2 years straight, and still have lots of memories (and lots of friends) from that game.
Guild Wars 2 was a huge letdown for me.
Which takes me to Neverwinter. The reason I like this game, is because it envisions everything I always wanted to see in a MMO. The Foundry, the dynamic combat, the feel of adventure... I always wanted this in a game. And now, it seems I can finally have it!
So... while I cannot be 100% accurate on why do you like this game, all I can say is: maybe if we all question ourselves this, you will not be the only one in search of an answer.
Best regards,
-Thiago
To give you a little background on myself to make my answer a little more clear I have played MMOs back in the days of Everquest when it launched, I was nine years old then. I played GW1 fairly regularly with multiple level 20s but never completing any of the campaigns. I had played City for 4 months before moving back to Everquest, although I've always loved that game it seemed like a slightly updated and super hero version of EQ. I've played WoW since the beginning and still play it to this day. I've taken a few breaks from it but none have gone longer than six months. I recently stopped playing Everquest 1 finally as it no longer holds my interest in the PvE scene. I've played DCUO to level 30 and was going to play with my friends but I was the only one to have actually hit lvl 30 and they stopped playing a week and a half after they started. I've had an off again on again relationship with GW2 since its launch and don't really enjoy it as much as I hoped I would have. I've also played a multitude of other games and was tournament level in Halo 3, Reach, and 4 although I no longer play. I've played so many games that I don't feel like listing them out completely so I tried to hit on the highlights of what I was good at and what seemed to be relevant to this thread.
Now I'd like to address some of the things you said and questions asked. The bulk of which will be WoW as that is one of the two games I have the most experience with in MMOs.
WoW:
"- I briefly tried WoW some time in 2005. I only spent about a half hour in the game. I don't remember much, but I do remember being TOTALLY CONFUSED as to what I was supposed to be doing."
As a veteran of the Everquest and City style of MMO I can see why WoW could be confusing in those first 30 minutes. I would suggest taking a look at the free trial accounts that let you level up to lvl 20 on any race and class, except for death knights as they require a lvl 55 character to unlock. You can't initiate conversations outside of dungeons, or buy things from the auction house but you can do a decent chunk of random dungeons and join the PvP Battlegrounds for those levels.
"you must have the best loot or no one wants you on their team"
People that want you to have the best gear before they bring you to the content that drops that gear aren't good people to play with. They want you to carry them through the dungeons and/or PvP content and not work to get it themselves. These kinds of people will often kick you from from the raid/group as soon as they can to get someone who has a slight statistical advantage. I've been a raid leader and have had to sit someone from the raid that I wanted to bring only once and that was because the individual in question wasn't performing as well as he should have and refused help to get better.
"you have to grind like crazy"
This is not necessarily true. While grinding "like crazy" often helps you achieve gear faster it will eventually stop helping as there is a maximum amount of points you can earn each week that goes towards new gear, and you can only kill the bosses and receive loot from them once a week in "Looking For Raid", Normal, and Heroic versions of the raid. Which puts a real cap on your grinding ability. When I was a raid leader I would often only play for only 2 hours on the nights that I raided, two nights a week, and 4-6 hours the rest of the week and I was receiving gear at the same rate the rest of my raid group was.
"If you die in the boonies, it can take you 30 minutes to get back to your body, at which point someone could have stole your stuff/whatever it is people do when they camp your dead body"
The amount of time it takes to get back to your body is significantly decreased from Vanilla WoW and the longest I've had taken to run back to my body has been 4 minutes, due to the fact that I died at the end of a twisty canyon because I got too excited and bit off more than I could chew.
When people camp your body they are often waiting for you to respawn so they can kill you. The only thing you could have stolen from you is maybe a rare mob that spawned as no one can loot items off your body or mobs you have killed, except for your party who should have resurrected you if you died. If you attacked the rare mob and it beat you, perhaps it was time for someone else's turn.
"PvP whether you like it or not."
This has actually never been the case. You were probably told this by someone who rolled characters on a PvP labelled realm where anyone can, and most often will, attack you. There are four different servers for WoW; PvP, PvE, RP, and RPvP. PvE and RP realms do not have world PvP unless you specifically turn your PvP "Flag" on, which is a little emblem on your character portrait that is either a shield, if you are alliance, or a horde symbol, if you are horde. I know first hand though the pain of being randomly killed and camped because you are on a PvP server as all my friends play on one and refuse to move off of it.
GW:
"I couldn't find him in the game. I had a hard time even chatting with him. We couldn't team up together."
That sounds like he didn't properly explain the District system to you and I'm guessing didn't explain that outside of towns the world was instanced to just you and your party. I can say nothing about the chat system for GW1 though because it was complete bollocks.
"For missions, I was really confused as to where I was supposed to be going and what I was supposed to be doing. I would find myself out in some wilderness with no idea why I was there."
When I first started Guild Wars I have to agree with you. The missions were terribly confusing if you didn't read the text, and some times they were still confusing if you DID read them. The more expansions they added onto the game the clearer their missions became but the first campaign of the game was very confusing at times.
General:
"- I also think I may be a snob and happy that I'm getting in "on the ground floor". The thought of joining a game that has already been in progress for a number of years is not at all attractive to me. Then I'd be a newbie amongst an army of veterans. This thought doesn't appeal to me. Does this make me elitist? "
Maybe equal parts Elitist and Hipster, but I don't know anyone who doesn't get a little proud when they can say, "I've been with X from the beginning." I certainly am for Everquest and World of Warcraft.
"I was afraid the action combat/mouse-camera would turn me off, but I adapted to it quickly. It was a lot easier to eat my dinner and still play City.. that's not possible in NW."
I'm glad to see people enjoying the action combat as I think it will help them become better, more efficient gamers. I have to agree about the dinner thing. I would often play WoW and EQ with one hand as I ate with the other.
"I showed him my NW videos (link in signature) and he was like "it's a totally different language"."
I'd like to borrow a quote from the last batman movie for this one. "Theatricality and deception are powerful agents to the uninitiated... but we are initiated, aren't we Bruce? Members of the League of Shadows! " You, I, and everyone else here are Bane and Batman and the people who don't play MMOs or RPGs are the uninitiated. I'm often told by my family that I seem to speak a different language while talking to my friends or about something that happened in an MMO.
"I think I could boil down the things I enjoy, but it still doesn't explain why I am totally NOT interested in some games, or why I found myself disliking them. Am I over-thinking it? GAHH!"
You're not over thinking it. Some games just have the atmosphere mechanics that combine in the right way to make a game really click for you over another game, that may have the same mechanics and atmosphere but does it in a slightly different way. One thing I've got to that I'm really liking about this game is that there seems to be a nice level of polish going into the game and I hope it stays like that and keeps getting polished. I would love another Everquest or WoW, 11 years playing the first and 7 the second, length game.
Also I ended up watching your videos so that I could properly respond to and get a feeling for you as a player. I have to say you look like a fun person to play with.
I think this is a bit out of context if it is in fact regarding gear-score. I think what people want is for others to have put effort in their gear. I've seen so many players that want to join the hard dungeons even though they should get the stuff from the normal ones first. And if you got a choice? Of course one would go with the person that has the best gear. Doesn't mean that they're a better player but at least they have put some effort in and it will make the dungeon considerably easier.
Other then that, I'd agree with Thiagomag. Nostalgia is a powerful emotion and stepping outside of your comfort zone is hard to do.
As a former raid leader I can't stress this enough, we never picked anyone up outside of our guild but we had a lot of people that heard the word raid and wanted to jump in, despite not having anything near the gear needed to be ready to raid.
Honestly if you are a decent player it shouldn't be hard to get more gear. All you have to do is simply go through the motions and you will be rewarded with gear. As an example I recently got a shaman up to level cap. In this last week I've gone from an average item level of ~430 with only one set of gear to an item level of 454 for my off set of gear and 464 for my main set. Those 20-30 points show the progression from brand spanking new to ready to raid level.
I'm hoping this will be similar to the gear progression level for Neverwinter.
What an entirely drab concept for a modification that installs a grind requirement for any potential raider.
Now don't get me wrong, I'd definitely blame Blizzard more for installing such a hamster wheel gear drip
(as well as a requirement to be able to do tougher content) in the first place, but I cannot do anything
other than still hate the fact that the tool's author decided to willingly give fellow players another barrier.
People in all should always be allowed to have fun in a game with others, because that's what games are for.
It's the main reason for me leaving the game after 6 years. Ceased to be fun with all the negativity and asshattery that ensued.
That is why I play mmos.
If at launch the game is this compelling, I can only expect it to keep getting better and better.
I must admit I've thought much the same thing over the last several months. I can play when I want to, and when I want to do something else, I say "good night!" and log off. I can do with my free time what I want, when I want. Social interaction on my terms; I like it!
HAhahAHAHahAHAHa! I have to laugh at the absurdity, and I think he would too. He looks at me as more of a hyperactive puppy than a woman, and knows the importance of making sure the boss's assistant is happy so she can keep doing good work. :P
My thoughts exactly.. your whole post, but especially this line. I log in and feel my heart swelling with joy at what I'm going to do in-game today. Even if it's just crafting or looking for Scrying Orbs, I just have a blast! There's plenty more to explore and I know more great stuff is just around the corner!