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Combat Advantage vs. Critical Strike

aurelploufaurelplouf Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 36
edited January 2015 in PvE Discussion
Hello everyone,

I have been wondering what are the tradeoffs between combat advantage and critical strikes, and I guess this subject could be important especially for a rogue or a great weapon fighter. I would love to learn more from experts on this subject.

So far what I know:

Combat Advantage gives you a bonus (by how much?) to your attack in certain situation such as the enemy being dazed or flanked.

Critical Strike has a chance to double your damages on your enemy.

I came across this page about Combat Advantage, but how does the +2 attack on a roll work in the MMO mechanics?? http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Combat_advantage

I haven't studied the damage mechanics, and played as a rogue during the BW4, and I can't figure out how damage is calculated.

Thanks for your wise insights!
Post edited by aurelplouf on

Comments

  • dungeondelverdungeondelver Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 58
    edited April 2013
    It works like strength but only in combat advantage situations, giving you a 1% to damage per point.

    If you have a charisma score of 15, this would give you 5% bonus damage from combat advantage.
  • aurelploufaurelplouf Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 36
    edited April 2013
    dungeondelver wrote: »
    It works like strength but only in combat advantage situations, giving you a 1% to damage per point.

    If you have a charisma score of 15, this would give you 5% bonus damage from combat advantage.

    Thanks for the quick reply. In that case, adding points to Strength instead of Charisma would be more advantageous since it would increase by 1% damage/per point in every situation?

    EDIT: What I asked above would be only when evaluating damages, and not the added bonuses that charisma could offer such as deflection.

    For maximizing damages I could then consider: Dexterity (for critical strike) > Strength > Charisma
  • dungeondelverdungeondelver Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 58
    edited April 2013
    Yeah that would be correct, for pure damage i would prior STR instead of CHA.. I'm still trying to think what would be best stats for a TR and can't make up my mind either.

    If you think about it, CHA gives other bonuses aside from damage (Companion bonuses, Deflection chance), i believe 99% of the time a TR would be getting the combat advantage damage bonus due to class mechanics.
  • zalathorm7zalathorm7 Member Posts: 128 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Someone posted elsewhere that STR was .89% damage per point. I'll look for the post.

    Also, CHA enhances companion stats and gives you more daily power use as a rogue.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kotlikotli Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 577
    edited April 2013
    The bonus is +1% CA per point of CHA. As for a Rogue you always want CA bonus up, and its really easy to have it up always from my experience in the BW as long as you got a companion/group. Even without help you still have it up a lot with the right skills.

    Based on this I would say for a Trickster Rogue CHA is worth more than STR (the extra bonus are better).

    Though it depends on the interaction between STR bonus and CA damage. If its (base+str bonus)+CA bonus then for damage you want STR=CHA for maximum damage.
  • erideitaerideita Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 304
    edited April 2013
    The main benefit of Combat Advantage over Critical is that you have Combat Advantage pretty much constantly as long as someone else is fighting the same target as you (so 100% uptime versus bosses, for instance). Critical is random and the base modificator is 75% additional damage, versus 15% additional but constant damage from Combat Advantage.
  • aurelploufaurelplouf Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 36
    edited April 2013
    erideita wrote: »
    The main benefit of Combat Advantage over Critical is that you have Combat Advantage pretty much constantly as long as someone else is fighting the same target as you (so 100% uptime versus bosses, for instance). Critical is random and the base modificator is 75% additional damage, versus 15% additional but constant damage from Combat Advantage.

    That's a great point to consider. Thank you. I also guess it might also be beneficial to look into feats and paragon paths. For instance:

    Tier 4 Heroic Feat, Disciple of Strength: Increase the amount of bonus damage Strength gives you by 5/10/15%
    Paragon (Saboteur) Tier 1, Speed Swindle: When you crit a foe it loses 2/4/6/8/10% Run Speed, you gain 2/4/6/8/10%.
    Paragon (Scoundrel) Tier 1, Berzerker Vitality: Gain .5/1/1.5/2/2.5% of your Max Hit Points as Temporary Hit Points when you deal Combat Advantage damage to a foe. This can only occur once every 20 seconds.
    Paragon (Scoundrel) Tier 1, Underhanded Tactics: Increase the effectiveness of Combat Advantage for you by 4/8/12/1/20%.
    Paragon (Executioner) Tier 2, Cruelty's Reward: When you critically strike a foe you generate 2/4/6/8/10% less threat for 6 seconds.
    Paragon (Executioner) Tier 2, Devastating Shroud: Increase your critical strike chance and severity by 2/4/6/8/10% for 6 seconds after using Shocking Execution.
    paragon (Executioner) Tier 3, Brutal Backstab: While Stealthed you critical with 5/10/15/20/25% more severity.
    Paragon (Executioner) Tier 4, Deadly Momentum: Duelist's Flurry has a 5/10/15/20/25% chance to apply "Deadly Momentum"
    Deadly Momentum: Increase you critical severity by 5% per stack.
    Paragon (Executioner) Tier 5, Overrun Critical: When you land a critical hit, one of your next attacks strikes with 30% of your crit severity.

    Basically what this tells me is based on the Paragon you chose, how you distribute your choice of DEX, STR and CHA can also more or less increase its effectiveness. Then it depends what you want to focus such as fighting big bosses, or solo mobs or PVP.

    Other stupid question: Does the Critical Strike acts as a multiplier on a Combat Advantage damage, or adds it on top from the base power? That could also make a big difference in damage.

    Example: I deal 10 base damage. 20% Combat Advantage bonus. 10+(10*0.2)+(10*0.75)=19.5 or (10+(10*2))*1.75 = 21 (that would make it 8% stronger right there...)
  • kotlikotli Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 577
    edited April 2013
    Everything stacks I believe so:
    damage dealt with all modifiers up = base damage *(1+STR)*(1+CA bonus)*(1+crit power)
  • aurelploufaurelplouf Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 36
    edited April 2013
    kotli wrote: »
    Everything stacks I believe so:
    damage dealt with all modifiers up = base damage *(1+STR)*(1+CA bonus)*(1+crit power)

    Thank you, thats really good to know! Then the paragon choice will really be decisive on your playstyle. A lot of great answers, thanks everyone.
  • mokomiimokomii Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    If I recall crit severity deals 75% more damage(if this is wrong please tell me). so 1% crit is effectively .75% increase damage, ignoring talents.
    again ignoring talents and assuming the logical order is Damage->Crit->advantage. (It could be Damage +advantage->crit for all I know)
    your dps is 100, 1% str would increase it to 101 dps. 2% would increase it to 102, meanwhile 100 dps with 1% damage with 1% advantage would increase it to 102.01 and etc. so it literally plays a part with how effective your 1% damage increase is. Same exact thing with crit but at a .75% per point. (1% = 1.01% with advantage and 1.0075% with crit)

    *disclaimer* This is assuming damage and advantage are on different logical orders otherwise damage will always outplay since you have no risk vs reward factor.*
  • mokomiimokomii Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    erideita wrote: »
    The main benefit of Combat Advantage over Critical is that you have Combat Advantage pretty much constantly as long as someone else is fighting the same target as you (so 100% uptime versus bosses, for instance). Critical is random and the base modificator is 75% additional damage, versus 15% additional but constant damage from Combat Advantage.

    Laws of big numbers say 1% is still 1%. yes for every 1% crit you gain .75% damage. (plus talents etc of course or orcs 5% better crit severity,etc)
  • michelmontenegromichelmontenegro Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I see examples of TR, but wanted to know about Warlock.
    Note: Warlock has "90% Critical Severity" and "+ 3% chance critical".

    CHA 1 = "1% Combat Advantage Damage" and "1% chance critical"
    1 CON = "1% Damage" and "2% hp"


    What compensates for Warlock in this case, CON or CHA?

    possible combinations (Initial Status):
    -> 20CON and 15CHA (+6 points per level, in both)
    -> 18CON and 18CHA (+6 points per level, in both)
    Note: It has the belt that the + 4CON and the belt of + 4CHA
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