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Retiring the skills of the rogue
dingsdaleus2
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 9 Arc User
Is it just me that is unsatisfied with the rogue's lack of skill? The rogue looks like it has been made purely for DPS and the game mechanics have removed the need for a skillful rogue at all.
Traps automatically show up for everyone as long as there is a rogue in your party. They don't need to be searched for and they deal no damage.
There are no locked chests with contents that need to be rolled for.
You don't have to sneak behind an enemy because you have abilities that magically teleport you behind them.
The spirit of the rogue has been exorcised. You don't need a rogue to balance the party.
All the dungeons I seen, everone just blundered through slaughtering everything. No method or tactics at all.
Needing to search for traps, having ranks in a disarm skill, and having the traps deal actual damage might slow the rush down a bit and add value back to the rogue. Shiny chests that need to be unlocked also.
I know this is beta, and im not sure if what I'm seeing is what we'll be getting, but I'm not sure if this is something that should be messed with.
Your polite thoughts?
Traps automatically show up for everyone as long as there is a rogue in your party. They don't need to be searched for and they deal no damage.
There are no locked chests with contents that need to be rolled for.
You don't have to sneak behind an enemy because you have abilities that magically teleport you behind them.
The spirit of the rogue has been exorcised. You don't need a rogue to balance the party.
All the dungeons I seen, everone just blundered through slaughtering everything. No method or tactics at all.
Needing to search for traps, having ranks in a disarm skill, and having the traps deal actual damage might slow the rush down a bit and add value back to the rogue. Shiny chests that need to be unlocked also.
I know this is beta, and im not sure if what I'm seeing is what we'll be getting, but I'm not sure if this is something that should be messed with.
Your polite thoughts?
Post edited by dingsdaleus2 on
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It seems to be the way things are going with games these days.
Not that I won't be playing a TR at launch. It's still my favorite class so far, but I'll probably be soloing most of the time.
The only thing I can suggest is what I plan on doing. Find a group of people who actually want to play the game as (I feel) it should be played, rather than how it can be played. Exploring the dungeons and other group content rather than just zerging it. Appreciating the thought and work that's gone into creating it all.
Regarding the traps, there are loads of threads about it. My personal favorite is rather than just buff the damage they do, add a serious debuff to them. Reduce damage/defence/speed/all of them to the characters that trigger them and possibly those nearby. That has the potential to make them painful and annoying enough to pay attention to, so even if one person triggers it, the rest of the party will want it disarmed before they go anywhere near it.
There is still an advantage to stealth and sneaking behind. You can't get a guaranteed crit from a Lashing blade for example if you start with a Deft strike, which drops you from stealth. From that point of view, I don't think they've completely deskilled the rogue, they've given us more options. It's definitely great fun to play.
In general, I appreciate your point of view, it certainly has merit. The game's in Beta, the generally accepted opinion is that it has a fair way to go before it's "ready". Personally, I can't wait to get my hands on it again.
Have faith. Stick with it. Keep asking for the right sort of changes and it'll get there in the end.
Regarding sneaking behind enemies, I did find a massive advantage for my TR in playing tactically with other players for combat advantage and positioning. Sure, the ability to bampf behind an enemy is fantastic but I used it more situationally than constantly since I was able to work with party members to flank foes.
You sir win the Internet.
It's a bit hard to play a MMO solo when you need the assistance of a party to utilize your abilities. In DDO it was difficult to solo a rogue, not impossible though. Rogue was like the hard mode I guess.
You always needed the rogue to open the chests, search for traps and disarm, and searching for hidden doors (though other classes\races have abilities for that). They had their value. They made up for their lack of DPS with other things. And a party is lost without one.
Another way it could be done is lower the standard DPS but increase the damage significantly when attacking from advantage. The rogue would still be useful in PVP, even feared, when played right. Of course that still leaves the difficulty in solo, but that won't matter when you can get yourself a hireling. Up until that point if you leave the DPS unchanged, there won't be a problem for the rogue.
Let's hope that the spectre of Gary Gygax comes to the developers during the night promising unspeakable torture if they don't make the rogue a rogue again.
I personally would love to have to search for the traps on my Rogue, but also disarm them before my group can go forward or suffer a severe penalty. Maybe add some skills in the tree's for searching ability and disarm ability. But I agree, traps need to have a much harsher penalty for tripping them. Traps on chests should also have a radius effect, that will hit anyone within range.
The possibilities are endless on this. Think about things like a healing debuff, or maybe a movement penalty, or maybe a blinding effect, or just plain old flying daggers if tripped. Please look into this devs, this would only make your game more like D&D.
Do I think your suggestions would add more the game, and provide a more interesting way to play? Absolutely. But this is an mmo, and more than ever, mmos are trending towards this "everyone is the same, no class has an advantage anywhere, go ahead and rush straight for endgame in two days" setup.
You can already see those people all over the forums, crying out that every class needs to do the same amount of damage in the name of "balance". And they are the ones I would hold responsible for the state of mmo gaming. Everyone needs to be the same special snowflake that can do everything, and that is why, in my opinion, we don't have rogues picking locks or disarming traps. If we did, then in addition to all the threads we have already proclaiming "Every class needs to do the same damage!" we would also have threads crying out "My cleric is missing out on loot because he can't pick locks!" or "My guardian fighter can't access this area because she doesn't have the arcana to dispel magic blocking her path!"
In more seriousness, the rogues have thievery which they use to open up those special bags. Although yes, everyone can get a kit from a shop and do it to, it is a class ability. In most MMOs I've played, rogues can open chests, but there's usually some other way to open them, like special keys you can make or buy (hello Zen market).
Traps used to be deadly in this game, at least I died on them a couple betas back when I triggered a few grouped together. I quickly learned that no one else cares about the traps and just run right through them. You can't even disarm a trap in combat, which is pretty much every time and instantaneous when the whole group barrels into a room full of traps and starts the fight. I've tried to use them to run mobs through like they teach you in the beginning, with the spider trap and the saw blades. But the mobs were not havin' it. So basically traps are worthless and i'm not sure that making them worthwhile is the right answer either. Let me explain, imagine Needing a rogue to complete a dungeon because the traps keep killing people. That's not fun. Some of the most fun groups i've dungeon'd with were all DPS groups, no healer , no tank. We destroyed the dungeon and all of the bosses went down with ease. Yes we defied the sacred trinity of tank, healer dps and had a blast doing it.
I don't feel worthless as a rogue, I feel heroic and it doesn't take a class defining and necessary skill to make me feel needed. Plus, we don't know what the level 60 adventures have in store for us. They may have deadly traps and pitfalls and things that require above a 75% chance to open. I haven't messed with the Foundry yet, but maybe someone can make a foundry adventure that includes deadly traps in it.