MMORPG.com column on Neverwinter

sominator · April 2013

MMORPG.com's latest column on Neverwinter is up! Read it here: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/634/feature/7297/Neverwinter-What-It-Isand-Isnt.html

eulerdmoogle · April 2013

sominator wrote: »

MMORPG.com's latest column on Neverwinter is up! Read it here: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/634/feature/7297/Neverwinter-What-It-Isand-Isnt.html

Because Neverwinter isn't a sandbox my brother thinks NW isn't a real MMO and is going to fail. After playing Beta 2 I felt NW was good enough to plop down enough money for "Hero of the North". We 'debate' the merits of NW at least once a week. =(^_^)=

gillrmn · April 2013

eulerdmoogle wrote: »

Because Neverwinter isn't a sandbox my brother thinks NW isn't a real MMO and is going to fail. After playing Beta 2 I felt NW was good enough to plop down enough money for "Hero of the North". We 'debate' the merits of NW at least once a week. =(^_^)=

Foundry can be made to have sandbox quests(nonlinear quests) though ... My next to next foundry manual will deal with it.

daxx360 · April 2013

I'm happy they wrote that up. I feel they've pretty much hit the nail in the head with it, esp with the whole "Is Neverwinter D&D?" debate that I've seen over and over. I play 4E every 2 weeks and an currently GMing an adventure, and yes while 4E is drastically different from the other rule sets used in the past (and the one they are currently working on), Neverwinter is as close a job as they could do in this format. I'm just glad articles are being written that say similar.

eulerdmoogle · April 2013

daxx360 wrote: »

I'm happy they wrote that up. I feel they've pretty much hit the nail in the head with it, esp with the whole "Is Neverwinter D&D?" debate that I've seen over and over. I play 4E every 2 weeks and an currently GMing an adventure, and yes while 4E is drastically different from the other rule sets used in the past (and the one they are currently working on), Neverwinter is as close a job as they could do in this format. I'm just glad articles are being written that say similar.

I think that's a good issue to bring up. Is (something) really D&D? The problem often arises when someone says the logical equivalent of "Well, it's not exactly how I remember it, so it's not really D&D." Hogwash. D&D is a very open ended concept. Greyhawk, Ravenloft, and Spelljammer are all D&D, right? I think few would dispute that. And yet you make a change such as Magic Mouth being a ritual instead of taking up one of your spell slots and people freak out. Is Neverwinter really D&D? Well, let's see. It's officially licensed. It's got brave fighters with swords, sneaky rogues with daggers, priests with holy symbols, and mages with magic missile. In the beta I went into dungeons, and I saw the bones of a dragon. Apparently there's going to be a dragon later in the game. So... it looks like D&D to me.

futrix · April 2013

eulerdmoogle wrote: »

Because Neverwinter isn't a sandbox my brother thinks NW isn't a real MMO and is going to fail. After playing Beta 2 I felt NW was good enough to plop down enough money for "Hero of the North". We 'debate' the merits of NW at least once a week. =(^_^)=

Weird idea, the most popular and best selling MMOs are pretty much all themepark games. I mean EVE is a cool game and all, but it is the most popular sandbox game there is and only has a 1/2 million players. That is actually really good, but not comparatively. You've probably already thought to bring that up, but if not you can have it

eulerdmoogle · April 2013

futrix wrote: »

Weird idea, the most popular and best selling MMOs are pretty much all themepark games. I mean EVE is a cool game and all, but it is the most popular sandbox game there is and only has a 1/2 million players. That is actually really good, but not comparatively. You've probably already thought to bring that up, but if not you can have it

My brother loves EVE. I find it dull. Each to their own, I suppose. I don't begrudge him for having his fun and he doesn't begrudge me for having mine.

vernednd · April 2013

I think the whole sandbox debate comes down to what players consider a sandbox. When UO came out it was considered a sandbox since you could build houses and items almost anywhere in the world. Other games are sandbox because players can add to, or impact, the world in some fashion. The foundry does just that. I think NWO offers both worlds. You have the linear themepark that the developers created, and you have the vast amount of content that players will create. I find it all a matter of perspective. Irony being that everyone has a different perspective so some will agree, some will disagree. What can I say, I'm mad, you're mad, we are all mad here!

Cheers!

gillrmn · April 2013

This is not a sandbox game, but it is a game with sandbox quests.

Sandbox quests are popularly called so, though incorrectly, refers to nonlinear gameplay. These quests can also be chained in non-linear fashion as they happen in small broken instances.

In the end, the game is designed perfectly for old-school pen-and-paper gamers. Just as they create their D&D stories, we have quests chained with maps.

Just like they skip the boring parts by using power words - "Later that day..." - foundry can make you touch bed to change day to night or teleport you directly to Fugue Plane.

In that sense, the game NW is awesome.

ironzerg79 · April 2013

gillrmn wrote: »

Sandbox quests are popularly called so, though incorrectly, refers to nonlinear gameplay. These quests can also be chained in non-linear fashion as they happen in small broken instances.

So that's what a hammer hitting a nail on the head sounds like

Yes, a personal pet peeve of mine. People don't actually WANT a sandbox game. A sandbox game is like Minecraft. You're given a playspace and all the tools, but it's totally up to you to entertain yourself. What people really want is a non-linear questing system that doesn't tell them where they can and cannot go.

Skyrim is a good example of this, like most of the Elder Scrolls. People will mistakenly call Skryim a sandbox game, yet every single encounter in the entire game is scripted. The player just has the choice of exactly when they'll chose to interact with that part of the game.

But getting back to Neverwinter, the Foundry actually gives you that sandbox, and with it, you can create non-linear, do it whenever you want quest contact that takes players anywhere. Literally, anywhere. You could take level 4 players, fresh out of the tutorial into the Feywild or Shadowfell. Journey into the evil nation of Thay, or warp people back in time to experience the Spellplague. It's completely open ended.

BUT, just like a sandbox, someone has to build it first.

So, given enough talented Foundry authors, some creative developers at Cryptic and a playerbase hungry for new content, there's really the opportunity for all three types: Sandbox, non-linear and themepark styles to exist in Neverwinter.

gillrmn · April 2013

ironzerg79 wrote: »

...BUT, just like a sandbox, someone has to build it first.

So, given enough talented Foundry authors, some creative developers at Cryptic and a playerbase hungry for new content, there's really the opportunity for all three types: Sandbox, non-linear and themepark styles to exist in Neverwinter.

I made one in BW1. I would be writing tutorial on how to make a quest like that this weekend.

But people had got used to golden path and I got comments like "too confusing" "I didn't knew what to do!" "I don't know where to go" "too confusing" "too many puzzles" etc.
A very few comments from people who completed the quest (and most liked it). Most don't like the old-school style of playing RPG - search for what to do and choose what to do.

So those who want to make nonlinear quests, or open outdoor maps [as I had made] - should remember that they will get a lot of bad ratings (especially from those who do not complete it). So they should make the quest for satisfaction of artistic sense and sharing it with a small crowd of people rather than catering to large number of people and making popular quest.

kamaliicious · April 2013

gillrmn wrote: »

In the end, the game is designed perfectly for old-school pen-and-paper gamers.

No, sorry, it's not. It doesn't support any of a large number of basic rpg scenarios. For example: there is a canyon with several caves, one of which has the plot gizmo you need, which do you explore first? Can't do that, because the canyon can't be a hub.

stryker67 · April 2013

As a PnP gamer since the mid-70's, and having played everything from Basic to AD&D to 3rd Edition and everything in between. This is DEFINATELY D&D, and Im very happy with how things are turning out. Yes, I'd like to see a wider range of classes (I tend to gravitate towards Paladin's for some reason), but overall, I'm very happy with the state of things and am very excited to see what the future holds...

MMORPG.com column on Neverwinter

Comments