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Why is all gear class specific?
zardoz007
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2 Arc User
Was wondering why every piece of gear in the game is class specific?
While with only 5 classes in the game at the moment this does not have that much of an issue. But the way the game is developing we could eventually see 15-20 classes appear over time.
And apparently I have read rumors that paragon paths for each class could also have their own paragon path specific gear, with 3 paragon paths per class that means each class will have 4 class specific gears associated with it.
So my worries is that we will get gear bloat and with there already being a problem with people not wanting to pay the astral diamonds for ID scrolls. Peoples inventories will just fill up with alot of useless gear, that will never be identified and will only be sold for 1 copper or more accurately just thrown away. It is no fun finding useless trash all the time.
Now I have to ask exactly what kind of gear "Needs" to be class specific. I understand weapons and armor do. But why rings, amulets, boots or hats. Especially when I have seen alot of these gears have identical powers to another classes gear of the same type.
Anyone else think this will become a problem?
While with only 5 classes in the game at the moment this does not have that much of an issue. But the way the game is developing we could eventually see 15-20 classes appear over time.
And apparently I have read rumors that paragon paths for each class could also have their own paragon path specific gear, with 3 paragon paths per class that means each class will have 4 class specific gears associated with it.
So my worries is that we will get gear bloat and with there already being a problem with people not wanting to pay the astral diamonds for ID scrolls. Peoples inventories will just fill up with alot of useless gear, that will never be identified and will only be sold for 1 copper or more accurately just thrown away. It is no fun finding useless trash all the time.
Now I have to ask exactly what kind of gear "Needs" to be class specific. I understand weapons and armor do. But why rings, amulets, boots or hats. Especially when I have seen alot of these gears have identical powers to another classes gear of the same type.
Anyone else think this will become a problem?
Post edited by zardoz007 on
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Not sure if this will become a problem per se, but maybe something that might be on the list for a "future development." Right now I'd like the devs to just get the game off the ground, up and running. Maybe later they can do a little more tweaking.
But, I'm a very simple gamer. I'm sure more folks out there will have more to say about the subject than I do.
Except the identity scroll argument doesn't make a lick of sense as all stats are usable by all classes, and are all valid to stack. Really the only possible reason they have for doing this is the difference in armor class, and even then that doesn't apply to weapons, rings, necklaces and the like.
My theory is that they're gearing this towards a "General audience" and don't have a very high opinion of this "General audiences" mental aptitude.
I've nothing to say in defense of this statement, other than to simply say, some "general audience" members may have mommies and daddies with deep pockets, and the Identify scroll is one thing that Cryptic may see as a cash cow generator.
I'm finding hope in increasing my skills and partitioning my uber-desktop 'puter with a dual-boot system for both XP and Win7, should be easy enough, I think My hubby can help me out with it. There are still a lot of creative private modules out there for NWN1 and NWN2 that I haven't played yet, and even maybe a few game servers out there still.
So, I guess if NWO turns out to be a hole that I haveta throw money into to have fun, I'll have some backup. So, I still have hope.
Accurate assessment.
Item class restrictions technically are only required on weapons and off-hand items, and for coder convenience, on armor. At every level I have played, I have seen the exact same item for a different class drop, same name (Ring of Smiting) and the same stats.
And class restrictions can be left blank, because I've owned items from instance runs (chest, bracers, helm, ring, amulet) which do not have class restrictions.
Technically, armor could even be generalized until equipped, and it would change the AC value appropriate to the class (it would just read +1, +2, etc. as it does now in the name). That just requires an if/else, and it's pretty simple to do, as they do have an "OnEquipped" event.
[ +2 Lipstick of Power ]
I draw my own signature/avatar when I am bored.
Somewhere in the Soviet Union, circa 70 years ago, an ad hoc German rear echelon combat team beats a Soviet armoured spearhead that has broken through the front line. After the fight, one of the surviving Germans is looking to augment his weaponry, and spots a PPSh-41 submachine gun (and plenty of ammunition for it). He would like to take it and use it, but can't, because the weapon is considered occupation (or "class", if you will) specific equipment for the Soviet tank desants, and he himself is a member of signals troops. Sounds reasonable and logical?
Now I'm aware of those classic fantasy genre limitations, such as that clerics must use blunt weapons instead of slashing and piercing ones in order not to shed blood, or that wearing metal armour prevents you from casting spells (that are not divine gifts) by hindering the flow of magic energy or something like that. But, in my humble opinion, if the D&D game mechanism is going to be ditched anyway, it would be better to give more freedom, not less, in using the stuff you've found, even going down to allow players to do, after clear and precise warnings, something downright stupid if they absolutely want to try (we're all supposed to be at least 13 years old and literate, right?). So, for example, a wizard would still see that a scale mail is something he's not supposed to wear, but if it's of about right size and he really wants to, after a warning message on the screen, he could don it. However, because he's not accustomed wearing armour, first, it wouldn't give him the full AC bonus and it would slow down his movement badly (for most people, a good indication that something is wrong?), and second, then if, after another warning, he'd try to cast a spell while still wearing that armour, well, take your inspiration from the good old MERP and give a random effect that may be anything from simply wasting the spell to something visually quite spectacular and deadly to the poor fellow (of course, from programming point of view, the former would be an easier choice, but also boring).
(N.B. Even tough I replied your message, this isn't directed to you by any means.)
Simple answer: loot distribution between party members
This is purely, so that people can blame each other for using greed/need etc. No other use for class specific restrictions. I think there is nothing to talk about
With the filters for paragon paths, it could get even uglier (and of course extra classes post launch)
They would be smart to 'nip this in the bud', not just for our sake, but their own.
I can only imagine that this is a remnant of the co-op gameplay.
Since I dont do 4th editon.....is the "hand and a half" sword only a two handed weapon in 4th?
Of course in 3.5, a wizard could, with penalty and could take a feat to be able to....but then....why would we want to allow players to make decisions.
One thing you should realize is that the game mechanics of this game have naught to do with PnP rules.
In 4e, my wizard has a sword and a staff. He uses both. One as implement and other as weapon. Just like gandalf. You shall not pass!
So in other words....
That is just Cryptic butchering the rule set to funnel players into their predetermined roles, yeah...that sounds like DnD....1st edition.
When a fighter found himself a longsword +3 in it, at least he could give his old longsword +1 to the party's thief. Besides, there were some really interesting supplements like Tall Tales of the Wee Folk for it.
A lot of people criticize that 4e feels like MMO. Actually they are wrong and their 'conclusions' are based on half-knowledge. Copying PnP 4e rules to MMO will actually kill the MMO.
However all non weapon and armour drops should be us able by anyone - and there should be some choice in drops within subgroups. Thus all fighters should be able to equip the same armour and weapons rather than having class specific variants.
The best option would be to have a specified set of weapons and armour that is usable for each class - this should be more than one weapon and one type of armour if only for visual diversity. These sets would overlap between classes so that dual weapon rangers and trickster rogues would share some weapons and some armours for example. This would make the economy and AH work better and be far, far, far more likely to make people actually use identify scrolls.
ludicrous.
I will give you that rolling a D20 for THAC0 doesnt translate to a MMO. (I went through all this when alpha testing DDO, so I am very familiar with trying to translate PnP rules to a MMO setting)
But that is completely different than saying...only mages can use staffs...only fighters can use swords...
Again...that went out with 1st edition. I point you to the big elephant in the room...ESO, dare I say it is closer to a DnD game than this is or than DDO is. And if little birds are to be believed...ESO is gonna be fine.
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For now we have variation of weapons which are useable. Like one handed weapons - axe/sword; or two handed weapons - club, greataxe, greatsword etc. by the same class.
However the powers are tied to a particular weapon for now. Hence a GWF using anything other than a 2 handed weapon does not seem possible.
I wish mages can use more than one implement - like orb, tome, staff etc. However for now I have not seen a variation in implements. Maybe they are not showing them to us in beta.
Armors are tied to class it seems. It seems they have done it to justify a few things - like fighter is slow due to heavy armor. And so they will not like a fighter removing armor and becoming faster breaking the balance of the game.
So weapons are being varied, but the weapon type for a class is not.
Done. 90% of the green items you get will be vendored. Guaranteed.
TBH though atm it seems more like they divided up the items into these groups: main tank, off tank/DPS, DPS, Healer and CC/DPS caster groups. I hope this is turns out to be the case as then the gear drops can stay decent for everyone instead of turning into 2,000,000 different items per level to cover everything.
Yes, every indication is that ESO will deliver everything each and every player wants, including the things they want other players not to have, while simultaneously still giving those other players those things. Also, it will wash your car, clean your room, and trim the hedges, and will cost only $1 a year.
We all understand that D&D to you means "exactly the features I prefer from several different selected editions, combined together in the way I believe I would prefer". This game isn't going to be that. I hope you find a game that will be that for you; please allow those of us who think this game is making good decisions to have our enjoyment. ESO will be starting beta soon, enjoy.
Meanwhile, Wizards of the Coast says this is a D&D game.
Oh please....it's the internet, grow a thicker skin. It's not like I said your momma dresses you funny and wears combat boots.
Your opinion is ludicrous because there are plenty of games out right now, and have been out for years, that allows you to wear any armor, DnD rules have allowed you to wear any armor as well....wanna wear plate mail as a wizzy...go ahead, just dont plan on casting any spells that arent verbal alone. But your contention is that Cryptic cant do this cause the rules dont translate well into the digital medium.
Syberghost: Never said ESO is going to be all that. I have my issues with that game too...and oddly enough, I dont a have problem pissing off their fanbois either. But it is better at being a DnD game than DDO or this shows me so far, and I havent even played it yet.
*chuckles* WotC said....yeah...they said they wouldnt reprint valuable cards either, they lied. They are a corporation and will tell what ever lies they need to convince you to spend money with them, same as any other company.
And ESO is already in beta.
But I totally calmed down now. ESO is maybe something in a far future as a rehearsal of DAoC.
At the moment I started crafting in EQ2 again and moved to Freeport
Really tough, you come from Neriak (or something like that), join the militia of Freeport, find a home, join Freeport, do all the grey quests (which are still all voiceover, cool) etc.