From my experience, if game has this large entry bonus option like this founders pack for 200$, than it ends up being a hit and run release.
For 200$ you can buy three modern AAA+ single player games. Cryptic and perfect World do not really have the best reputation out there. R.A. Salvatore is one of my favorite authors, and forgotten realms one of the greatest worlds in history of fantasy, but can you believe that these companies are actually interest in delivering something great to the player, instead of simply cash in and wrap up?
Post edited by shieldstorm on
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papi032Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Companies make games to earn money, not to make games. imo
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sendrienMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Actually, I was in the same boat as you when I first heard of this game. Perfect World definitely doesn't have a very good image in my mind, and Cryptic is not really synonymous with AAA+ MMO design. And yet, the more I read about what they planned to do, and the more I found out about their plans for monetizing the game, I began to realize that Neverwinter has a lot of potential. And most surprisingly to me, they seemed to be nailing it on multiple fronts.
Their Action-RPG design was a gutsy decision, as it deviates from D&D so much, but it gives Neverwinter many gameplay elements that will keep the game interesting for a long time to come. They promised this would not be Pay-to-Win, and despite my doubts, they have held to their promise so far, and show no signs of wavering. They said they learned from their mistakes in previous titles, and it shows with the polish of this one: their closed Beta runs smoother than any other I've been part of, and they've added a lot of small details which address common problems or gameplay annoyances you might find in other MMOs. The Neverwinter experience is very enjoyable.
Sure, they might be making this game for commercial reasons, but who can blame them? What I care about is that my personal expectations (very high) are met, and, all things considered, I think they're getting there.
The world is not beautiful; therefore, it is.
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kwsapphireMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 671Arc User
edited March 2013
I certainly hope PWE isn't just sucking up the Founders/Guardian purchases with plans to cancel the game in six months or a year, but I highly doubt there's much danger of that. Developing an MMO (especially on this scale, with this kind of industry player) takes millions of dollars, which PWE has certainly not recouped from the pre-purchased goodie packs. I'm assuming they'll need to keep the game open for quite a while just to get back in the black, and then they'll want to run it as long as possible to keep making money.
And I'll second what papi032 said - the company's in business to make money. Hopefully they do so by creating an awesome product/service that a lot of people enjoy and spend money on. I can't comment on the honesty or integrity of the team running Neverwinter, but until I have reason to believe otherwise, I'm going to assume they're doing their best to create a great product that will be commercially successful.
Cryptic prior to being bought by PWE had serious problems with their design of STO to the point that lifetime members were planning on doing a lawsuit. PWE came in an changed quite a few things and since then it's been a very well planned game (accept for a few pvp centric issues).
I don't see them messing this title up to that extent honestly. And I don't see them pulling what GW2 did with their title, which was spend 7 years touting a design for a game that was evolutionary and then two months after launch completely change the end game focus to dungeoneering gear grind with months of work to advance. It just won't happen with this group imo.
PWE will keep the game running, and running smoothly - there's no doubt about that. Only thing we need to do is make sure they don't jack up cash shop prices, by letting them (ie foolishly paying bad prices). Or letting them get away with gimping us at later levels then being forced to use cash shop goodies to boost our performance to where it should be anyway (like having to buy the full hp restoration stones they sell at the cash shop, because the mobs hit so hard at higher levels and players can't pot fast enough, and clerics can't heal fast enough to cover the damage).
Those two things are what I'll be watching for.
THIS IS CLERIC AGGRO IN BW3
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papi032Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
I'm just waiting too see the enchants and runes system. It seems you will have to spend to get to max level but can't run my mouth without playing first
I'm just waiting too see the enchants and runes system. It seems you will have to spend to get to max level but can't run my mouth without playing first
I was skeptical on this point as well, but quite a few players report getting higher quality runes up to level 3 on the last weekend. Since it only takes 4 of a certain type to attempt to upgrade it, then it looks good... so far. I suppose we will have to see what developments they continue to make as they tweak the game.
This game will stay on the air as long as it produces a reasonable profit. When it doesn't it will close. It looks excellent so far, based on the beta weekends and I can't wait to get my hands on a full build. I don't think any company plans to put this much work into something just to dump it a year later. The $200 founds pack is expensive, but its for the "luxury" player who has money to burn. They have a $60 pack (about the price of a standard AAA) and ftp version as well. Even if only a few people pony up for the $200 pack it makes sense for them to have it. The basic principle of the F2P with cash shop model is that you have a way to take care of the casual player with $5 a month to spend, but also that you also have some big dollar options for the players who have money and really dig the game. I bet there are quite a few people who have $200 to spend for their chance to play their version of a famous dark elf.
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kakurenbo1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Well I got a Champions Online lifetime waaay back, and tbh I feel like I got my monies worth in the first year. It wasn't a great game, but it was really fun and fast-paced with a great community. Wasn't impressed with STO and dropped that pretty quick so I am more cautious of shelling out this time. But I had a good feeling about CO, and I'm starting to get a good feeling about this.
I think it's up to each player to go with gut instinct, about if they will get their monies worth of fun out of it.
From my experience, if game has this large entry bonus option like this founders pack for 200$, than it ends up being a hit and run release.
For 200$ you can buy three modern AAA+ single player games. Cryptic and perfect World do not really have the best reputation out there. R.A. Salvatore is one of my favorite authors, and forgotten realms one of the greatest worlds in history of fantasy, but can you believe that these companies are actually interest in delivering something great to the player, instead of simply cash in and wrap up?
From my experience, if game has this large entry bonus option like this founders pack for 200$, than it ends up being a hit and run release.
For 200$ you can buy three modern AAA+ single player games. Cryptic and perfect World do not really have the best reputation out there. R.A. Salvatore is one of my favorite authors, and forgotten realms one of the greatest worlds in history of fantasy, but can you believe that these companies are actually interest in delivering something great to the player, instead of simply cash in and wrap up?
Path of Exile - 1000$ Support Pack. around 1000 ppl bought it based on the Devs, and thousands of others the 250$ ones. Game is a huge success. Your experience is more like a personal opinion.
Yes i could buy 3 AAA title game. But would i get hundreds and hundreds of gametime from it? Hardly... And you forget the game will be Free which offers hundreds of hundreds hours of gameplay. You have the option to support them with Founders Packs. Looking at this, your points are invalid.
PS.: For those who say PWE has a bed reputation... PWE is known as one of the best publishers. Ppl tend to forget how perfectly they saved STO when they bought Cryptik.
Cryptic shot themselves in the foot trying to pick up development of both Champions Online and STO simultaneously. I cringed when I heard the news that they were going to try and develop two MMO titles. Mostly because I didn't think Star Trek was a good MMO setting and I wanted Champions Online to be a strong title. I never really thought that Star Trek was a very good MMO setting, so I passed on that game. Champions is a game I still like to log in and play, and I really enjoy a lot of the changes that they have made. Neverwinter has potential, but I think it feels too much like an arcade game- but yet still not as cool as a MMO version of Dungeons & Dragons: Shadow Over Mystara.
PWE has an excellent reputation their flagship mmos as old as WoW and still have expansion packs regularly... what have you been reading lol
They do indeed. Only complaint with any of the games is typically the 'refining system' and how badly it wrecks pvp for non CSers. NWO may be immune to that ... we will see.
PWE is always looking ahead. Bad business sense to invest years into a game to only get one month of cash grabbing lol. They are too experienced to be that short sighted.
I have pretty well always been happy with the expacs they put out, so their reputation there is rock solid. By the time that happens with NWo, you will have the 'actual' release version on the game. (it will be in OB until then lol)
...granted I was pretty shocked to get the email with a $200 pricetag on it.
I'm happy to pay for my hobby. 200-40 = 160, 160/15=10.66.. so it's equivalent to around 11 months of playing wow from scratch, if the game lasts more than that = win.
(Just an eg to show my point. I probably will be paying more money in that 11 months but like I said it's a hobby).
I loved Champions, I played it for over a year. I got disenchanted as it moved to F2P and I saw that as a sign there'd be little new content and a lot of "costume packs" for 15 bucks. So I bailed on it, but overall I really enjoyed my experience.
I think STO is an underrated game. If I were more of a Star Trek fan I'd play it.
Both games still have loyal fans and both still have vibrant RP, so I am sure NWO will go a similar way.
I think it is fair to say Cryptic doesn't build massive games that collect tens of millions of players. That they are a little more like an "indie rock" band rather than a massive "arena rock" band. But at that level, their games are fun and very playable and stable.
SHADOW - A secret cabal for those who thirst for wealth and power. Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
Cryptic and perfect World do not really have the best reputation out there.
/disagree. PW has always made fun games that you have to pay nothing to have a great time with. In house or by studio purchases they seem to be on the right track. Cryptic's games are also pretty fun. CO and STO seem a bit basic only for the first half of leveling. Once you dig deeper in them they hold their own with any other game. Let us also not forget Blacklight, which is a really fun shooter!
For 200$ you can buy three modern AAA+ single player games.
The problem with those AAA single-player games is they'll last about five to six hours each, and then you're done. You either go and play the multiplayer that was either a) tacked on at the last minute or the real focus of game development, which caused the single-player campaign to suffer, or you move on to the next game.
At least with Neverwinter, you'd get more than 15-20 hours of gameplay out of it. Seems like a good deal to me.
Then you have to take into account those AAA games' DLC packs, which will cost $10-15 and last maybe two or three hours each. Neverwinter will have new content--free content--pretty much all the time once people figure out the Foundry.
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kwsapphireMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 671Arc User
edited March 2013
I have to agree, I get a lot more time for my investment out of an MMO than a console game. I managed to stretch 85 hours out of Dragon Age Origins, though I hear the average is 70 hours. For a game that was probably $50-60 upon release.... $60 with a 70 hour return is 85 cents per hour, $50 with an 85 hour return is still almost 60 cents per hour. I bought DAO used and on sale for $15, so that brought my cost down to under 18 cents per hour, which is much more reasonable. It just means there's no incentive to buy the game new, and the developer's didn't get the money I spent to buy it used. And despite the "replayability" that so many tout of the game, I got to a specific area (the Sloth demon's dream towards the end of the Circle tower) and I thought to myself "Gosh, I really just don't want to do this part again." Despite the fact that I really want to know what the dog's rescue sequence looks like, since he wasn't in my party last time, I just can't bring myself to repeat that specific content. And because the game is fairly linear, I have no option to skip that part. So I put the game down and walked away.
Dragon Age 2 - I've come to an impass. The only two things available to do right now (besides advance the story past where I'll be able to do these quests) are seemingly impossible. I can either fight a huge elder dragon and tons of its dragonlings, or I can fight a really epic demon. In both cases there are lots of auto-hit and patch damage that *I* can avoid, as a player, but the NPC AI is totally stupid and dies in 5-10 seconds. So these fights are impossible right now, and there's nothing I can do about it. (I also can't get online, because my PS3 tries to download an update, gets to 11%, freezes, and restarts. No online PS3 network for me.) So here I am really glad I only spent $10-15 on these games, instead of the $60 original price tag!!
Then take MMOs. I played City of Heroes for 8.5 years, and while I don't know how many total hours I spent in-game, my conservative estimates put my total cost at something under 40 cents per hour, and I am probably far underestimating how much time I spent in-game Not only did it give me a decent return per hour, but it kept me interested for eight and a half years. That's epic. I doubt may games can claim such a loyal player-base, and those that can are certainly mostly or all MMOs. (I still pick up Secret of Mana now and then, but even as much as I love SOM, it doesn't demand the same attention from me that City did, or that NW will. That's the nature of MMOs.)
The fact that MMOs have more content, which evolves, which players can play or not at their leisure, which players can team up to defeat, oh and this MMO is FREE and you only have to spend money if you want to? Much better investment of time and money, IMO.
I'm waiting to see how crafting and PvP is before I judge them. I got to give them credit they won't release NW with out a crafting system like Trion worlds is doing with Defiance.That is a very very bad move for a MMO to do.
Comments
Their Action-RPG design was a gutsy decision, as it deviates from D&D so much, but it gives Neverwinter many gameplay elements that will keep the game interesting for a long time to come. They promised this would not be Pay-to-Win, and despite my doubts, they have held to their promise so far, and show no signs of wavering. They said they learned from their mistakes in previous titles, and it shows with the polish of this one: their closed Beta runs smoother than any other I've been part of, and they've added a lot of small details which address common problems or gameplay annoyances you might find in other MMOs. The Neverwinter experience is very enjoyable.
Sure, they might be making this game for commercial reasons, but who can blame them? What I care about is that my personal expectations (very high) are met, and, all things considered, I think they're getting there.
And I'll second what papi032 said - the company's in business to make money. Hopefully they do so by creating an awesome product/service that a lot of people enjoy and spend money on. I can't comment on the honesty or integrity of the team running Neverwinter, but until I have reason to believe otherwise, I'm going to assume they're doing their best to create a great product that will be commercially successful.
I don't see them messing this title up to that extent honestly. And I don't see them pulling what GW2 did with their title, which was spend 7 years touting a design for a game that was evolutionary and then two months after launch completely change the end game focus to dungeoneering gear grind with months of work to advance. It just won't happen with this group imo.
Those two things are what I'll be watching for.
I was skeptical on this point as well, but quite a few players report getting higher quality runes up to level 3 on the last weekend. Since it only takes 4 of a certain type to attempt to upgrade it, then it looks good... so far. I suppose we will have to see what developments they continue to make as they tweak the game.
Cheers!
I am cautiously optimistic.
I think it's up to each player to go with gut instinct, about if they will get their monies worth of fun out of it.
There is a 60$ version as well.
Path of Exile - 1000$ Support Pack. around 1000 ppl bought it based on the Devs, and thousands of others the 250$ ones. Game is a huge success. Your experience is more like a personal opinion.
Yes i could buy 3 AAA title game. But would i get hundreds and hundreds of gametime from it? Hardly... And you forget the game will be Free which offers hundreds of hundreds hours of gameplay. You have the option to support them with Founders Packs. Looking at this, your points are invalid.
PS.: For those who say PWE has a bed reputation... PWE is known as one of the best publishers. Ppl tend to forget how perfectly they saved STO when they bought Cryptik.
I'm all of supporting the Devs and PWE.
They do indeed. Only complaint with any of the games is typically the 'refining system' and how badly it wrecks pvp for non CSers. NWO may be immune to that ... we will see.
PWE is always looking ahead. Bad business sense to invest years into a game to only get one month of cash grabbing lol. They are too experienced to be that short sighted.
I have pretty well always been happy with the expacs they put out, so their reputation there is rock solid. By the time that happens with NWo, you will have the 'actual' release version on the game. (it will be in OB until then lol)
...granted I was pretty shocked to get the email with a $200 pricetag on it.
(Just an eg to show my point. I probably will be paying more money in that 11 months but like I said it's a hobby).
I think STO is an underrated game. If I were more of a Star Trek fan I'd play it.
Both games still have loyal fans and both still have vibrant RP, so I am sure NWO will go a similar way.
I think it is fair to say Cryptic doesn't build massive games that collect tens of millions of players. That they are a little more like an "indie rock" band rather than a massive "arena rock" band. But at that level, their games are fun and very playable and stable.
Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
/disagree. PW has always made fun games that you have to pay nothing to have a great time with. In house or by studio purchases they seem to be on the right track. Cryptic's games are also pretty fun. CO and STO seem a bit basic only for the first half of leveling. Once you dig deeper in them they hold their own with any other game. Let us also not forget Blacklight, which is a really fun shooter!
At least with Neverwinter, you'd get more than 15-20 hours of gameplay out of it. Seems like a good deal to me.
Then you have to take into account those AAA games' DLC packs, which will cost $10-15 and last maybe two or three hours each. Neverwinter will have new content--free content--pretty much all the time once people figure out the Foundry.
Dragon Age 2 - I've come to an impass. The only two things available to do right now (besides advance the story past where I'll be able to do these quests) are seemingly impossible. I can either fight a huge elder dragon and tons of its dragonlings, or I can fight a really epic demon. In both cases there are lots of auto-hit and patch damage that *I* can avoid, as a player, but the NPC AI is totally stupid and dies in 5-10 seconds. So these fights are impossible right now, and there's nothing I can do about it. (I also can't get online, because my PS3 tries to download an update, gets to 11%, freezes, and restarts. No online PS3 network for me.) So here I am really glad I only spent $10-15 on these games, instead of the $60 original price tag!!
Then take MMOs. I played City of Heroes for 8.5 years, and while I don't know how many total hours I spent in-game, my conservative estimates put my total cost at something under 40 cents per hour, and I am probably far underestimating how much time I spent in-game Not only did it give me a decent return per hour, but it kept me interested for eight and a half years. That's epic. I doubt may games can claim such a loyal player-base, and those that can are certainly mostly or all MMOs. (I still pick up Secret of Mana now and then, but even as much as I love SOM, it doesn't demand the same attention from me that City did, or that NW will. That's the nature of MMOs.)
The fact that MMOs have more content, which evolves, which players can play or not at their leisure, which players can team up to defeat, oh and this MMO is FREE and you only have to spend money if you want to? Much better investment of time and money, IMO.