test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Options

Control Wizard needs more 'Control'.

ichbinichbin Member, Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 166 Bounty Hunter
edited May 2013 in PvE Discussion
First off, I enjoyed the animations and spell layout for the class... However, 'CC' powers need to last longer than 1 sec. I understand certain powers are bolstered by chill stacks on the enemy, and arcane stacks on yourself, but there doesnt seem to be much of an effect.

For example, 'Entangled Force' will lock an enemy for roughly 1.5 secs. Its bolstered by how many 'Arcane Mastery' stacks you have. Well at max stacks (5), it holds em for a whopping 2 secs... thx... thx.

It feels like that across the board, chills dont last at all, nor freezes, or for-mentioned tangles... All this coupled with gimp dmg an hardly any ability to deal with multiple foes (since the majority of the game is based off the minion system). You have no choice, but to party up early on. While other classes just rock their way through the world.
Post edited by ichbin on

Comments

  • Options
    christovaochristovao Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Totally agree with you,
    Would be nice if cryptic invest on Enchantment School powers, essencial for control groups of mobs.
    Hypnotism(to hold for a while a group of enemys), charm, sleep or hold person.
    Changing ray of frost for Hypnotism for at-will power

    Something like this:
    8vqglk.png
  • Options
    gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I want sleep as a daily! How can a control wizard not put mobs to sleep? How can he call himself control wizard otherwise?
  • Options
    xervaixervai Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    This game needs more mezzing powers like it needs a hole in the head. Sorry but I disagree that it needs more stuns/holds/interrupts. The Control Wizard has plenty of them and once you start speccing high enough the cooldowns/longevity/speed of the arcane mastery gain starts to go in positive directions. Assuming they aren't bugged of course. Take a look at the Control/Tactics paragon paths.

    Stuns are extremely powerful in this game, as are knockbacks. Not only does it interrupt most of the time, but it helps save the bacon of many people. If the frustration of the control isn't log enough because of soloing, then that's a different story. You'll need to choose wisely and dodge way more often. Also get a good companion.
  • Options
    meg47meg47 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    The control effects need to be longer. But..how long do they last at high level?


    My opinion is that monsters need to dish out twice the damage, and control effects need a duration that is 3 seconds out of the box.


    Monster damage goes hand in hand with control duration.
  • Options
    xervaixervai Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    meg47 wrote: »
    The control effects need to be longer. But..how long do they last at high level?


    My opinion is that monsters need to dish out twice the damage, and control effects need a duration that is 3 seconds out of the box.


    Monster damage goes hand in hand with control duration.

    It's not just the duration of a single skill, its the fact that they stack if you time them right. You can use the three stuns in a row for around 6 seconds of stun. Especially since Steal Time is AoE it is extremely powerful. Ice Stun, Choke Stun, Steal Time = 6 seconds of stun on a single mob. From there you can add Repel or the immobilize onto that. Which adds another 2/3 seconds. We're talking 10 seconds if all you want to do is control.

    My setup has the ice blast attack as my spell mastery, because the AOE it does is nasty, especially right into a Steal Time. Before people jump to conclusions stick with the Control Wizard, especially passed 20 and into 30. Since it sounds like they're not wiping between betas due to the "challenge" and adding levels up to 50, maybe they'll let us actually get there and test.
  • Options
    sofademonsofademon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 75
    edited March 2013
    I am not in the beta, but I have been watching streams and videos of wizard gameplay. I have had the same though myself, that the control wizard was not very control-ery. But I have also basically just seen newbie level, i.e.e sub level 10 stuff. I did just watch a short video of a level 16/17 wizard, and he seemed to be soloing with no problem, his ray of frost was very effective, he had a nice knockback, and a aoe cloud spell of some kind. I would really like to hear from someone who has leveled up to higher levels. Do you think you have enough control? And do you think you contribute to a group?
  • Options
    tofubombtofubomb Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    xervai wrote: »
    It's not just the duration of a single skill, its the fact that they stack if you time them right. You can use the three stuns in a row for around 6 seconds of stun. Especially since Steal Time is AoE it is extremely powerful. Ice Stun, Choke Stun, Steal Time = 6 seconds of stun on a single mob. From there you can add Repel or the immobilize onto that. Which adds another 2/3 seconds. We're talking 10 seconds if all you want to do is control.

    My setup has the ice blast attack as my spell mastery, because the AOE it does is nasty, especially right into a Steal Time. Before people jump to conclusions stick with the Control Wizard, especially passed 20 and into 30. Since it sounds like they're not wiping between betas due to the "challenge" and adding levels up to 50, maybe they'll let us actually get there and test.

    My problem is similar to what someone mentioned above, what you are stating 6-10 secs of control with all those abilities is not really control. I am using every single encounter power to keep that one mob contained for those 6-10sec.... What about the other 3-5 mobs that are commonly in the same group? They are pounding me in the face, when do I have time to engage them, with what? Just blew all my powers on one mob, all I have left is my at wills, which would be fine if I had time to use them. But since all my control powers are so short I maybe have time for to target and use 1 tick of an at will before I gotta re CC the first mob.

    That's not considering the difficultly of trying to target the stronger mobs through the curtain of minion mobs, or if you are forced to dodge away from another big monster attack since often you'll see to bigger mobs in a group. Which means you have zero time to attack another mob cause the CC is breaking already. I will continue to play through the beta to see improvements but frankly unless CC or the wizard damage is reworked a good deal I can't see the point of playing one, even though I've always played a wizard.

    Compared to the guardian I played to 30 in the first weekend, I have far less surivability, seem to kill slower, and have far more difficult gameplay that requires more skill with no discernable benefit. Also speaking about repel imo, and other knockbacks... in groups most people hate them when you knockback an enemy you are fighting, sometimes its useful, but most of the time annoying. Solo due to mob density in most areas knockbacks are often just as dangerous as useful. They have their place, but I would not consider them part of a normal CC cycle.
  • Options
    visionstorm01visionstorm01 Member Posts: 561 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2013
    I agree with most here. Control Wizard feels a bit weak and not very controll-y.

    You have to devote your entire effort to keeping just ONE target held for a limited amount of time, while the rest of the mobs just pound on you while you're doing nothing that would improve your tactical situation in any way. You're better off going full offensive and largely forgetting about your "control" powers.

    Without a slight increase to hold durations or making them AoE at least, control powers have little point in this game currently. And Control Wizards seem to have less survivability and damage than other classes.
    ____________________________
  • Options
    visionstorm01visionstorm01 Member Posts: 561 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2013
    *oops double post* :p
    ____________________________
  • Options
    doioddoiod Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    For very nearly the first time in my life, I'm with the majority on this one. I just ran a CW up to level 10 as my first experience with the game and it just wasn't very control-y. Being able to (slightly) slow one target is completely meaningless when everything comes in groups of five and you could instead choose to kill it in half the time it would take to build up a full stack of chill. I've seen a couple people say it gets better at higher levels (although more disagreeing with them), but I'm not seeing the hook that would keep me playing the class long enough to find out. Why give me freezing ray at such a low level if it's not good for anything yet?

    Random thoughts; we probably wouldn't want all of these implemented together:
    Reduce the number of chill stacks needed to trigger a freeze
    Dramaticaly increase the movement penalty associated with each stack of chill
    Give freezing ray an AoE component - make it a much wider + piercing beam that hits everything in its path
    Shorten or eliminate the recovery time associated with teleporting
    Increase the distance covered by teleport
    Reduce magic missile's damage and roll chaos magic into the basic version of the ability

    Whatever the specific form it takes, there definitely needs to be some adjustment here. As far as I've made it, nothing was nearly dangerous enough to justify trading damage for "control" given how little control we can actually manage.

    And just so this isn't all negative, I will throw in that I was pleasantly surprised by the game in many other ways - it's just that the class I want to play being really dull is a tough barrier to get past.
  • Options
    gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    doiod wrote: »
    .... I've seen a couple people say it gets better at higher levels (although more disagreeing with them)....

    You get more control powers at high level but wizard does not becomes more control-y. The two things are different.

    Infact you can have all 8 spells active which are kind of control for a combat but still due to cooldown of less than 2 seconds the core problem remains. One spell time steal is AoE, but it is only useful in a party when you let other person get all the aggro. Unfortunately, if you are in good party, by the time you activate it, the rogue has already killed most of the mobs.

    In truth, the cleric is better controller in a party with its chains of light power. Solo - wizard stands no chance to control.
  • Options
    presbytier7presbytier7 Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I was just about to create this very same thread till i noticed you did it already. So far most of the CW powers seem to be very week DPS abilities; there are no AOE snares or really any effective snares at all.
    "Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson
  • Options
    falchoinfalchoin Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 386 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2013
    The other problem is bosses which are immune to controls. There's no bonus damage or debuffs associated with control powers used on control immune targets. Even chill stacks fall off immediately so all the powers which benefit from chill become much weaker.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    kotlikotli Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 577
    edited March 2013
    TBH the control wizard really need a mezz/sleep spell that takes a mob out of combat for awhile, I dont care if it does zero damage and breaks the second someone sneezes on the mob.
  • Options
    aavariusaavarius Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Silverstars Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I think there are some valid concerns here, but I also agree that things get better at higher levels. Additionally, it's been my experience that the control wizard really shines in group play. When you're not the only thing drawing all the aggro your control effects get a lot more useful in that context.
  • Options
    tearsfall69tearsfall69 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I got a cw to lvl 40 yesterday and then today a trickster rogue to 16. One observation I made is that the TR is pretty much faceroll in comparison to the CW. There is only single target control and fleeting at best with the CW. While with the TR, I just had to drop a decoy and have the mobs turn to hit while I backstabbed all the mobs to death. I really hope the wiz is tweaked quite a bit between now and release because given a choice between control wiz and a trickster rog, next time I will just go all rogue and leave the poorly named control wiz on the shelf.
  • Options
    granmazzogranmazzo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Classes need a lot of balance: i have used a rogue(lvl12) with no problem this beta weekend but wizard(lvl12) omg was so terrible, no real control , no real damage , lack of aoe spell.
  • Options
    presilkpresilk Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 103 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2013
    At level 10, I wrote a thread that I felt quite sad with the game as a CW so far.
    At about 14, I started to change how I felt and saw the potential of the wiz if tweeked a little here and there. I too thought that a daily power for an aoe mez/sleep was defently needed. That would make the wiz.... able to control the situation... live up to his name as one..

    Once I hit the dungeons with groups at lvl16, I realised that I was having fun. Was finding I was dpsing, but was also chilling, choking aoe dotting, blasting mobs away from others if I saw anyone in a tad of trouble. Where and when I used each of the spells, I found I was thinking a lot more than most other mmo's about my actions within a group. Tis beta, the forums are flooded with suggestions, I got the taste of the game I first had hoped for it but oh boy, the first 10 levels....

    My gear I concentrated on power and crit potential, and once I got my tankie companion, I found I was having a blast, litterly, both solo and grouping. The swapping of which spell to put into the tab was finding changed my tactics quite quickly. aoe kick backs or a stronger aoe dot were the ones I found I used mostly. some of the dungeon runs had no tanks, so aoe kickback came in very handy. (and yes, I'm not using the right terms atm, due to writing this in a hurry rather than doing the dishes before my wife screams at me....)

    perhaps the player needs a choice at level 10 to choose the icy control wiz this toon is, or to have the choice of a fire dps or a lighntning based wiz pathway if less cc more dps one chooses to head down is more there liking. with the companion being able to make a huge difference with ones playstyle, shouldn't be too hard to allow something.ike this.
    same with the rogue, archer or bard pathway. or guardian, paly, beserker. This sounds less d&d and more other types of mmo's thou, been done many times before so perhaps not.... but with such little diversity allowed with a small selection of spells one is able to use at one time.... dunno... maybe I better go clean up that kitchen instead of trying to lay down my thoughts of this beta experience....

    anyways.... daily sleep...absolutly needed.
    allowing slight micro movements with the at will spells and clamp me down as much as you like with all the rest. needed.
    When I peek down a staircase, see a bunch of mobs at the bottom, the moment i choose my opening spell, the action part of this game needs to also be allowed. As Im slowly thinning down the numbers as they are all wanting to come and rip me a new one, i want to be able to slightly move behind that pillar as im fireing my at wills so those back archers, (that somehow can shoot around corners anyways but....) have to reposition themselves to get that clear shot. As im getting swarmed by mobs while archers are hitting me from ahead, i wish to be able to use my choice of at wills while moving slightly to get that frontal cone radius to let my aoe blast as many of them as i can away from me.
    I dont want movement where I can kite mobs. ild go play many other mmos to do that. Just wish to see more of an actiony approach to complement that locked mouse decision.. I also realise for them to allow this the whole model at will animations would have to be redone due to all the break dancing my toons doing while casting them. would have to change to slow leg movement and walking while the top torso is having a fit casting away but.... a lot already has to be done to the models for what I can see anyways...

    My view on the wiz so far at lvl22, is now positive. the silly 'oh me to fu' stance I know will get addressed. but the rollercoaster ride of how I first thought of this class at the biginning has changed and look foward to see how they go ahead and tweek this class....
    **** I'm woffling.... yes dear...coming....
  • Options
    bruddajokkabruddajokka Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 447 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2013
    Conduit of Ice would have been more useful if instead of chilling, and damage it froze things when three stacks where applied.
  • Options
    deathinblueshoesdeathinblueshoes Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    1-2 second stuns need to be aoe. single cc's should last much longer.

    chilling effects take too long to put into effect and don't last nearly as long as they should.

    teleport should move the character farther and the bar should regenerate faster.


    that said, i don't know the potential tele regen or potential cc capabilities one may have at 20+ levels.
  • Options
    lanessar13lanessar13 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I don't see how anyone but a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> would try to get a CW through levels 25-30, because it was pretty frustrating. Half the quests either required grouping or stock options in the potion maker's guild.
  • Options
    mzeeusikumzeeusiku Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 38
    edited March 2013
    I spent my day knocking back and freezing while I ran around exploding mobs with ice. Took a bit to figure out but it worked for me. I would like to see more aoe stuff like sleep and such.
  • Options
    roninthehoodroninthehood Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 184 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2013
    Im not sure what ya all been smokeing.... neverwinter has a Frost elementalist. ....There is no control wizard at all.....
  • Options
    elimin3elimin3 Member Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    lanessar13 wrote: »
    I don't see how anyone but a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> would try to get a CW through levels 25-30, because it was pretty frustrating. Half the quests either required grouping or stock options in the potion maker's guild.

    For sure, I hit a major challenge at 26, in the cemetary. But managed through it. solo.. ended beta at 28, which was a new controlling orb, and more damage.
    "It is our responsibilities, not ourselves, that we should take seriously." Peter Ustinov
  • Options
    lostboyashlostboyash Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I agree with the OP. I played the wizard through to level 16 or so and then promptly switched to a cleric for better aoe and mob control. The wizard really should be THE controller. The class needs another look, IMO.
  • Options
    venomdemmevenomdemme Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 42
    edited May 2013
    I do agree the CW need more control power. More aoe roots/slows. More aoe stuns. The damage is fine.
  • Options
    endlesspillowsendlesspillows Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 92
    edited May 2013
    Way to necro.
  • Options
    venomdemmevenomdemme Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 42
    edited May 2013
    Way to necro.

    Yeah my bad. Lol.
Sign In or Register to comment.