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Thoughts on "custom" deities
ofkathria
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
So this is something I've been thinking about for a while, and I'm still not quite sure how to approach it and I thought I'd get the opinions of others out there.
I have a few characters I plan on playing in Neverwinter who are in a large part defined by their worship of a particular deity that I created, and the ideology she represents. Now obviously, this deity is not part of Forgotten Realms canon, so I've been considering how I might play these characters so as not to be incompatible with this particular setting. I've come up with a few ideas so far-
I more or less took the fourth option in NWN1 back in the day, but the majority of my roleplaying took place within my own mod, where I more or less played everything fast and loose. I know of only one person who objected, but then he had gone and declared his own character a god (but he had done it "legitimately," he claimed), so I didn't really put any weight in his opinion. But now that I'm going to be actively RPing in an open world with hundreds of other people, I'm wondering if I should make more of an effort to "stay within the lines." I figure I should at least make a token effort, in any case.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? Should I worry about it at all? Or if I should, how might I best adapt my characters and their religion so they wouldn't be entirely at odds with the existing world and pantheon? I'm only passingly familiar with Forgotten Realms lore, so if anyone has any ideas I haven't thought of, I'd love to hear them!
I have a few characters I plan on playing in Neverwinter who are in a large part defined by their worship of a particular deity that I created, and the ideology she represents. Now obviously, this deity is not part of Forgotten Realms canon, so I've been considering how I might play these characters so as not to be incompatible with this particular setting. I've come up with a few ideas so far-
- They could be part of an obscure or upstart cult whose deity no one has ever heard of and may not even exist (I don't currently plan on playing any clerics or other divine classes, so I wouldn't have to worry about explaining where their power comes from).
- They could be part of a cult that worships one of the existing FR deities, but ascribes to her attributes and ideologies that differ from the "mainstream" perception.
- I could "demote" my deity from full-fledged goddess to a powerful spirit, a revered ancestor, or something of that nature.
- I could say "to hell with it," and just play my own way without worrying about what anyone else thinks or whether or not it makes sense within the established setting.
I more or less took the fourth option in NWN1 back in the day, but the majority of my roleplaying took place within my own mod, where I more or less played everything fast and loose. I know of only one person who objected, but then he had gone and declared his own character a god (but he had done it "legitimately," he claimed), so I didn't really put any weight in his opinion. But now that I'm going to be actively RPing in an open world with hundreds of other people, I'm wondering if I should make more of an effort to "stay within the lines." I figure I should at least make a token effort, in any case.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? Should I worry about it at all? Or if I should, how might I best adapt my characters and their religion so they wouldn't be entirely at odds with the existing world and pantheon? I'm only passingly familiar with Forgotten Realms lore, so if anyone has any ideas I haven't thought of, I'd love to hear them!
Post edited by ofkathria on
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Like you I had a character heavily built around his religous beliefs.
What I did was find a god in the forgotten realms that came as close to the same ideology as the other god had that my cleric followed. I then stressed the points or even exaggerated the points that agreed with my chosen philosophy and then like a good fanatic ignored the rest.
IGN: DrDoom
CLS: Heretic
SVR: Atlantis
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________________________________________
I'll go with a flat "yes".
This is really the problem with an entrenched setting, especially one that develops a commercial following from things like the Drizzt novels, is that it establishes a rather zealous and sometimes just a tad inflexible fan base.
I get how people love lore and they study it and come to know it deeply and revel in it. I think this is all good and a well-studied role player is a great role player.
But Forgotten Realms is a vast place, with thousands of cults and gods. It's also a D&D setting, something which has encouraged players to branch out from the canon and develop it's own creative input. You are supposed to want to do things your own way. It's part of what makes D&D great.
Nowhere does any D&D book say, "follow this to the letter, compliance to it is what makes for a great D&D player".
Rather it says things like, "have fun with this and develop your own style and flavor, recreate Forgotten Realms with your own signature"
I think we sometimes forget that spirit in MMOs. I particularly think that spirit gets demonized by some fans who take lore to their hearts and study it deeply.
Obscure cults exist in Forgotten Realms. They are everywhere.
In that spirit, adapting your characters to worship somebody that you feel is important to you, should be perfectly accepted. You should, in return, accept that very few other characters will have heard of this god, some might even deride you for paying homage to what they consider a "false god". But that's part of the fun.
There's a good chance, if your character has lived long enough in Faerun, they've run into a few cults, that the mainstream population considers "kooky" or "delusional". Heck, we even have such organizations on Earth.
And that's really what you need to consider. That when we "study" fantasy lore, we tend to sometimes get a bit dogmatic about it. If Earth was fantasy, we might read for example, that all Canadians are super-polite, a little meek and they all love hockey. Then if I were to RP a Canadian that liked baseball, but hated hockey, lore-head would scream, "that goes against canon". Or if I were to say my Canadian is a sun-worshiper, you'd again get, "sorry, lore says 70% of Canadians are Christian, the rest is a mix of Hindu, Jewish and Muslim"
You see lore often generalizes, it produces high-level views of society and politics. But people are individuals and people have their own idiosyncracies that are sometimes not covered in high-level lore.
This goes for interpretation of history. Ask a Russian and a Australian about World War II and you'll get two very different perspectives on the same event. The history we read as "lore" about WWII in our country, is different than what you might read in Albania. Then doesn't even touch fringe people, who believe things like Rudolph Hess is still alive, or that Churchill knew about Pearl Harbor, but did nothing about it, because he wanted America in the war.
So even people's own perspective on history is different. Ask 100 Americans about who killed Kennedy and you'll get 70 of them telling you something very close to our "lore" about it, but the other 30 could have a variety of answers to "the mob", "Cuba", "CIA" or even "aliens from outer space".
The people on the fringe aren't covered in lore, but they exist in our real life and they should exist in Faerun.
Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
This is so true for a lot of the clerics in the lore too lol. As for custom gods, you can do what you want but I don't know how accepted it will be in RP. People play a forgotten realms game, to experience the FR world. Good luck though! Hope it turns out well
PS: My main has always been a follower of Eilistraee, and she'll continue to be even if she supposedly got killed in 4e.
Yes. Just flat yes. It's D&D (or at least its technically supposed to be :rolleyes:), and D&D has never been about canon or any particular setting. The game itself is supposed to be about fantasy in general and making it your own world (the DM manuals even have guidelines for world creation). People that choose to stick along a predetermined path or follow a specific setting and its so called "canon" (which their characters are not even supposed to know, since they're not omniscient or supposed to be aware of everything that is or isn't about their world) do so of their own volition, not because the game is supposed to be about that.
A deity with whom reality is putty in its hands.
A deity loved and feared, both malicious and benevolent.
A deity simply known as...
The Gygax.
That said, I fully expect (and look forward to) plenty of in-character derision and hostility from others based on my chosen deity. But hey, what good is a story without conflict?
The Wood Lord's Curse
Part I: Wild Man of the Wood
Part II: The Warlord's Tomb
Like I said, it's just an honest question. I'm all for originality, freedom, and creativity, but I could also see the devs viewpoint NOT to cater to a player and give special treatment for being unique like that. Also, you WILL have to face the occasional canon-HAMSTER. Personally, I'm just completely neutral about it.
A campaign world/setting created and controlled by a DM with their own established rules or guidelines is a different thing than an open game that caters to a wide range of players from different demographics, including people that don't even RP, as well as people that do RP but have to bring their own stories and input for RP to even happen. In one case the DM is the driving force that allows the world to happen, and there can be mutual consent between all parties involved to stick to certain rules to remain consistent with the established setting and create characters appropriate to that world and/or the theme the campaign revolves around. In the other everything is a roving mess with people from all over the place, coming and going, and no clear starting point where everyone can sit down and agree exactly what their "campaign" will be about. RP in an open world requires a more open mind to what other people may bring to the table than RP in an established group where everyone agreed uppon certain rules.
This is true, but it doesn't meant that the devs didn't pour their blood, sweat, and tears into creating (and approving) this world. Actually, to take it one step further, you could now try and replace the phrase "DMing a pnp game" from my previous statement with "DMing a NWN persistent world". Or even the next step would be "creating a video game".
All I'm saying is that there are boundaries that the creators set, and in this case it's Cryptic's vision of FR. But just because it's a video game with a different demographic doesn't make it any less a legitimate "world" with rules to follow than one a DM would create for his/her pnp game. In actuality, you'd think they'd be more strict with what they would allow for content, if only for the reason that they have to go through the "WotC canon seal of approval" before they present it to us.
I give them props for not restricting what we want to do in-game (relevant to the topic, mind you XD), but I think it's the other players that might have a problem with the notion of such uniqueness, rather than the devs. Like you said, it requires a more open mind to game with them, and there will be thousands upon thousands....
The Wood Lord's Curse
Part I: Wild Man of the Wood
Part II: The Warlord's Tomb
I actually did this. The GM rolled his eyes but let it happen. It was an Evil campaign and I wanted a frog-god of corruption. The other party members had deities who were into world destruction, but my deity was more interested in suffering and suffering cannot happen if the world was destroyed. So we had some philosophical/theological conflicts.
Within the frame-work of this game, I'll just have to say my giant frog diety is an aspect or demigod representing the Unicorn Queen or some existing semi-Primal diety. He'll just be more Primal and not Evil anymore.
I'm fascinated by the possibility that the player's choice of deity could effect the outcome of certain missions. Or effect NPC attitudes about that player. If the diety you choose for your character actually matters for more than window-dressing, that could be interesting. I don't know if it will, but that would be cool.
It won't affect anyone else gaming but that rpers group which I presume will be ok with it seeing as many rpers have static groups.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
I allowed one of my players to do something similar. It worked out so well, I rolled it into my campaign's lore. This is really, to me, the sign of a great DM. They let their players get inspired and take the adventure/world in directions you did not think of. This only improves your design and encourages the players to feel "invested" in the session.
We'll do the same thing with Shadow. It's not really my guild. It's not really anyone's guild, it belongs to all the members. It will evolve in directions, I can't anticipate where it will go, because we'll constantly let the members evolve and refine it. It's already changed, based on the feedback of those who have joined and it has become stronger and more interesting because of that.
It's truly one of the "magical" things that comes out of a good game of D&D. And clearly, to my eyes, NWO is yet another good D&D game, because it's premised on having its users generate and define a substantial portion of its content.
It requires no development on Cryptic, just a blank space to enter the name when you choose "Custom".
Forgotten Realms is riddled with cults and bizarre religious groups, even solitary creatures with their own weird notion of what is and what is not divine. FR lore isn't written in concrete, it's meant to be a living, breathing organic place, where all kinds of things happen off the mainstream.
Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
There is absolutely no reason why anyone can't RP whatever they want. But just like life, there are consequences to every action. I like to use this rule whenever I RP in a public setting: The more you deviate from established lore, the smaller your sphere of influence will become.
RP in a MMO is a social construct (as is all RP really) so you will find more compatible roleplayers if you follow lore/canon more closely than someone who makes custom stuff. If you start adding things that may not be compatible with someone else's idea of the world, then you have an OOC conflict that results in one of two things. Either one side compromises or both sides separate into their own spheres of roleplay. If the conflict is severe or the breach in lore seems significant to one party, the second result usually takes place.
I'll use a very extreme example. There is nothing in the game to prevent me from playing an elf from LotR in Neverwinter but it will reduce my ability to roleplay with everyone because not everyone will accept a Tolkien elf in Faerun. I may find people who don't care and I could RP with them but the end result is, my RP sphere of influence has shrunk.
So feel free to make custom deities but understand not everyone (or even most?) may not appreciate your custom design.
The Wood Lord's Curse
Part I: Wild Man of the Wood
Part II: The Warlord's Tomb