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spellwarden
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 357 Bounty Hunter
the more I videos I see, the more I am convinced that the TR will be for all those that want to solo the game.
I am starting to think that TR's will be baned (seems hars, but read on) from grouping with me.
The reason is this. First you have to realize that I am not ruled by stereotypes here, I am simply stating that there are MANY like this, and therefore, taking a chance on someone influenced by that stereotype, then the odds are that I am going to have a bad experience, much like dating a heroin-user (he is not! an addict, ok! He's a poet!). So, why TR?
Well, there are many games where you get a character that has no limitations, nothing that makes them depend upon others. something
Take the Barbarian for example, D3 being only the latest example. This character would survive against anything. Big, burly and therefore only really complemented by other classes, not dependant. There where many times I played with barbarian, and they would compleatly dissregard my need for protection (glass mage), and then say I was a bad player. Now, I am not calling these players face-rollers (lets be honest, D3 was by original definition of the phrase: face-rolling... with parkinssons). But they lack a sense of group cohesion. Their class of choice not bad at anything in particular, they are simply not as good as others. But they can survive without anyone, and with great skill, they can rush forward and solo very hard content. Props to those players.
However...
I usually play classes who have a role in a group, and i gear for it, I choose skills for it. Why else would I be online?
(I know, archaic thinking about multiplayer, but hey, I had to physically connect computers the first time I played multiplayer).
In summation. TR for me spells egocentric (not egotistic, BIG difference) play-style running as fast as you can, attacking first without paying the price. And then denouncing others. I know this is not going to be the case for all. But it will be part of the play-style to such an extent that I would rather have another CW or GF in the group than Trickster Rogue.
Anyone dissagree? Got some insights that I have missed?
I am starting to think that TR's will be baned (seems hars, but read on) from grouping with me.
The reason is this. First you have to realize that I am not ruled by stereotypes here, I am simply stating that there are MANY like this, and therefore, taking a chance on someone influenced by that stereotype, then the odds are that I am going to have a bad experience, much like dating a heroin-user (he is not! an addict, ok! He's a poet!). So, why TR?
Well, there are many games where you get a character that has no limitations, nothing that makes them depend upon others. something
Take the Barbarian for example, D3 being only the latest example. This character would survive against anything. Big, burly and therefore only really complemented by other classes, not dependant. There where many times I played with barbarian, and they would compleatly dissregard my need for protection (glass mage), and then say I was a bad player. Now, I am not calling these players face-rollers (lets be honest, D3 was by original definition of the phrase: face-rolling... with parkinssons). But they lack a sense of group cohesion. Their class of choice not bad at anything in particular, they are simply not as good as others. But they can survive without anyone, and with great skill, they can rush forward and solo very hard content. Props to those players.
However...
I usually play classes who have a role in a group, and i gear for it, I choose skills for it. Why else would I be online?
(I know, archaic thinking about multiplayer, but hey, I had to physically connect computers the first time I played multiplayer).
In summation. TR for me spells egocentric (not egotistic, BIG difference) play-style running as fast as you can, attacking first without paying the price. And then denouncing others. I know this is not going to be the case for all. But it will be part of the play-style to such an extent that I would rather have another CW or GF in the group than Trickster Rogue.
Anyone dissagree? Got some insights that I have missed?
Post edited by spellwarden on
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Any dps running off during group content ahead of their team is looking for a fast ride back to the respawn point.
As for soloing everything, well being able to solo a lot of the content was one of the design goals right? I expect Guardian Fighters will have builds that capitalize on their defenses while pushing their dps as high as they can get it and being the real solo kings and queens.
I am not advocating any form of nerf
Nor am I against soloing content.
read this and understand it. I dont want more missunderstanding please.
I plan on spending most of my time in NO grouping with my father and brothers (I'm gonna call dibs on CW). That's really the only reason I play MMOs as opposed to sticking strictly to single players.
Ravenloft
Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
Considering I always see the same name jumping on the same bandwagon, making the same assumptions, hijacking threads.
Trust me, that was re-wright number 56.
Apocrs1980. Yea, well, the thing is. I actually think it is fine as it is. There are always going to be the player that is difficult teaming with. And the rogue is a good option for them. This way, those that choose the "booring" team-focused classes, cleric and GF being prime examples, can have their way of playing. Those that want to be more egocentrical in their playing, can get just that.
From what I have seen, the rogue will attract pretty much the same type of player as the barbarian did. Which was why I never played with any barbarians (when I had a choice) in D3. Same thing here.
Have you even played the game yet? And if you haven't then you have no basis for your argument other than you don't like making groups that constantly disappoint you. I hope you understand that what you derived can be said about any of the classes in a vague generalization kind of way. If the person has a different way of playing than you, that does not necessarily make it a bad way of playing. They could be any class. Lets say a "zerg" or more hyper active rush in guns blazing type of player for example just means they have to find other like minded players to play with. Finding other players to flesh out a group that you want to play with is great. It is what I am ultimately trying to do as I hate playing with those types of people as well. I like to take my time, plan out strategies and have a fun time. But without seeing a finished product of the game it is way to early to jump to conclusions about any specific class being over powered.
I got a chance to play during the last Beta weekend I have to say the Trickster Rogue is in no way an over powered solo class. In fact most areas that I played, and I played all the ones they had available to us, were pretty hard to solo with any class without using a few potions here and there. It is a twitch class but with this being an action combat based game, all the classes are a little twitchy. I say twitchy as in you have to be constantly be moving, evading incoming attacks, getting behind monsters to deal more damage. The game has an action based combat system after all.
What it really boils down to here is finding a great group of like minded players. Now if you chose to role play a character with a distaste for rogues then that would be appropriate for the situation. However you most definitely can find a good group without banning a certain class from partying with you; but that will ultimately be up to you.
What really grinds my gears is the very fact that you call people names for stating their opinions based on little knowledge and a generalized stereotype on a public forum. This just shows that you really have no idea what you are talking about. Why? Because you yourself stated an opinion you have based on little knowledge and a generalized stereotype on a public forum. Even after you stated you were not ruled by stereotypes and making a terribly off-color analogy comparing a play style of a class in a fantasy role playing game to dating a heroin addict... Inconceivable!
All classes NEED to be able to solo to some extent, and without playing the game yet (and no one has past 30) they seem to have done a good job, that doesn't mean that all classes can solo everything, you will require a group for the dungeons and if that is what you wish to do you can stick to that.
I personally only ever play tanking or healing classes (control freak
From what i've seen of the TR it won't be as gung-ho as the barb in D3, it doesn't have the AC to stand toe-to-toe with alot of enemies, you will see them using there tricks to gain tactical advantage over large enemies and packs, DPS classes will always go through solo content faster than tanks or support classes but its all down to preference of play style.
saying you'd prefer a CW in your group is a bit premature as surely they will have the same faults if the wrong player is behind it? as a tank i'd rather have a rogue at least it gives me a better chance of pulling than with a ranged guy pulling stuff all over the place.
I'd suggest not looking at disliking classes but get a guild and learn about the people, it will make for much nicer grouping experiences
Trouble at "The Rock" please play and review if you have the time, thanks
I've read that the TR is pretty squishy, so I don't expect to be facerolling everything and leaving my group behind. That's not particularly fun anyways.
The game, per in game message, is balanced in its most normal content around a PC with its NPC Companion. (and potions!!!) So no matter which class you play, you could play the most common content without support of other players (because of whatever reasons may motivate you to solo).
Is the Trickster Rogue a Terminator? Nope. Rambo? Nope. Predator? Nope. Alien? Nope... In non bugged regular gameplay, my solo rogue in the beta weekend only died twice (at level 22) against a pirate boss. But there were more than a few enemies that required me to drink potions like a junkie or to simply run away (multiple times), "recharge" and try again (ah, evil "Rat in the Kitchen" Foundry quest...).
Of course that skill also matters and the rogue skills may need some tweaking/balance, but I'd say that rogue (as any DPS class) has the solo advantage of being able to clean the area faster than other classes... if it survives. Which to me sounds like any other MMORPG out there that I have tried. In Lineage 2, my Bladedancer had an easier time soloing (usually grinding for mats) than my Priestess.
Now, if we are talking about rogues soloing delves... then we have a problem.
Elluric. My respons was mostly aimed at Ryger5 who I have tried reasoning with. But he constantly creates battles by hijacking threads and spouting stereotypical nonsens. And I said "you guys", because the first respons was made by someone who did not read my post/missunderstood what I had written. And it is tiering that I try to post a thought, and get responses that are missing the mark by a f****** light-year. And your last sentence... really? are you a prude? It is fine if you are, some of my best friends are prudes (lol, I am 90% noone is gonna get the joke). Anyways, yes I do, I compare it to dating a heroin addict. But perhaps you think that all heroing-addicts are bad, steal, or hurt those in their social-sphere? Well... I would suggest you take a look at your own preconcieved notions about personality traits. But I am guessing that you are in defence-mode when it comes to suggestions from me, so I wont be surprised when you got some retort on that subject. Finally, as I stated, I had watched vids, and got an Idea, therefore I came here to share that Idea and see what people think. Those that understand that give responses, those that want to be superior make assumptions about what I meant, and denounce it.
Furthermore, GWF is not a nimble class, but one that will need aggro taken off thon to a greater extent. Therefore there is a greater chance that the GWF will be forced into team-play, and anyhow, those play-styles that I have run into so many times are still more probably to go for the TR. I still think that, because NOONE has given me a good argument why not. There has been perhaps 3 posts here where people actually added something to the conversation. But I guess that expecting to get an intelligent thoughtout respons from some here on the forums, is like expecting a heroin-addict to pick up the phone.
Cheers to those that tried to discuss this. I will return to just observing for information. THere is no point in posing an idea on these forums anymore.
Yeah, not seeing much here worthy of a rational response.
It would be better if you proof read your posts for spelling and grammar. Organize what you are going to write better because honestly people have to make assumptions about what you are trying to say. If you have a point to make, make it in plain English in one paragraph, not in 16 parts in 16 places of 5 paragraphs.
Now that being said I think you totally wrong. It is not going to be the class that is a problem, it is going to be the person who plays the class. If you think a Trickster Rogue (oh and abbreviating everything makes you even harder to understand in general. If you must say Trickster Rogue the first time and then abbreviate it after that.) can solo anything, go to the 5 man dungeons and give it a whack. I don't mean put 5 people in a single person adventure dungeon and then have the Trickster Rogue go ahead I mean put 5 people in a 5 man dungeon and then let the trickster go ahead alone.
Harsh words from someone who wrote this sentence days ago and refuses to edit it:
Sure, you're not advocating a nerf, what you advocate is worse, you're just advocating personally banning an entire class (at least I assume that's what "bane" means). You justify this based on mechanics that aren't released yet, and have only been beta-tested once. Then when people scoff at your audacity, you turn around and call them morons, because they are "missunderstanding me" (sic).
Your own signature demonstrates you have a penchant for scoffing at game mechanics, confident in your assessment to actually deride not only the game designers, but the people who play those classes.
It's just the kind of hubris, that some of us, are a little tired of. I mean seriously, months before a game is going to be released, you write a miniature essay on why an entire class is going to be personally banned by you. Then rather than back up your argument with metrics, data or fact, you simply claim anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is an idiot. You do so in posts ripe with spelling mistakes and grammatical error, so you can't even command the English language, but seem to imply game designs based on complex coding and algebra isn't properly constructed.
It's akin to a kindergarten kid criticizing the film "To Kill a Mockingbird" because, "it isn't in color and lolz what kind of an ending was that anyway?"
In other words, a boiler-plate gamer rant, that many of us rightly can't take seriously. So yeah, we chided you for it. If you want to counter that, present us with data. Oh but wait, you can't, because there really isn't any data yet. You see? That's why, we can't take your claim seriously.
Can rogues solo better than any other class? Perhaps, but I wager the Cleric is a superb solo class as well. But is the rogue extremely over-powered? I haven't seen any metrics from you that really support that. That's putting aside that the power curve in these games aren't why a lot of us play these games in the first place.
Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
Played enough of the guardian fighter to know its the right class for me and its the one i will play at launch.
Back on Topic: I can't say I agree with you Spell Warden. Sure the Trickster Rogue is strong but he is also very much a glass cannon. A couple of good hits and he will die so it's very much a risk vs reward class.
Also the feedback for BWE1 was pretty unanimous, the game is too easy and they are actively tweaking that as we speak. I hope they'll have their new difficulty increase implemented for BWE2 but I haven't heard anything for certain.
I can only assure you all that the difficulty is absolutely is being increased, especially at higher levels, so before we assume one class is too strong and can solo all the content let's allow them to balance the content to being a decent difficulty first.
At the difficulty rating of BWE2 any class could solo. In fact I'm pretty sure the Devote Cleric should have gotten your hate over the Trickster Rogue. They might not kill mobs as fast as Trcikster Rogues but they definitely have (had) much more survivability.
So all in all, before we brand classes as you did let's do what the Beta Tests are for, give them feedback and get the game balanced to where it should be
<does a little dance>
Thank the gods.
This is good news for me! I definitely felt like the game was far too easy in the first beta weekend, and that was without using potions. With the spammable potions besides, everything would be utterly trivial.
However, I hope they can manage to increase the challenge of the game while still keeping it accessible enough not to turn off too many casual or newer gamers. Really, these games need to figure out more effective ways of teaching the players how to play them. A little tooltip with hardly any information that pops up briefly and is usually ignored doesn't really impart to the new player how and why they should be using their abilities.
Watch all these YouTube videos from beta weekend one and you see the same thing over and over. People not moving out of splats, not dodging, not blocking, not using their encounter powers, not using their daily powers, not using stealth or channel divinity. Just standing there spamming their one at-will, taking damage to the face, and drinking lots of potions. Why does practically everyone play that way? Well, partially it's because the game is super easy, but it's also because the game doesn't teach them how to play differently.
I'm not sure what the solution is to that. I'm not a game designer. But it's something that should be worked on.
I think keeping it simple and not reinventing the wheel does wonders for this, if we look at old school games back on the NES or SNES take say Megaman for example they did a great job of introducing abilities and mechanics subtly as your character moved on and gained more abilities. check this vid out kinda explains what I am talking about, loved it :: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8FpigqfcvlM
Ravenloft
Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here