Lost about 4E, help?

trique76 · February 2013

I am an vet player of both 2E and 3.x edition, but I totally dropped 4e. So now I need some help understand its mechanics and how the fighter works before the beta and the release. Can someone please point me a site where I can do some research? I browser the web but didnt find anything that good and specific.

To be honest I wanted to play as paladin and just figured they are NOT releasing the class with the game few days after purchasing the packs. But its ok. Perhaps the cleric is more dps oriented than the fighter? There ARE some versatility in 4e?

I also wanted to play a dual wielder fighter as my alt (back when I was deluded thinking that the paladin was in the game), but as far as I can see this build is lost for us so far?

Thanks!

maliusnight · February 2013

A keen understanding of 4th isn't really required for NW. Yes it is based upon the setting of 4th Edition Forgotten Realms, so you may want to find a copy of the Neverwinter book, purely for the background. The fact is however that as with most games, digital versions of the game are not really mechanically line up with the pen and paper edition. Just look at races in NW vs Races in 4th Edition. In this game humans gain a +2 to con and versatile defense, in the 4th its a +2 to a stat of choice and a free feat. So keep in mind based upon does not translate to exactly like.

quorforged · February 2013

trique76 wrote: »

I am an vet player of both 2E and 3.x edition, but I totally dropped 4e. So now I need some help understand its mechanics and how the fighter works before the beta and the release. Can someone please point me a site where I can do some research? I browser the web but didnt find anything that good and specific.

4E doesn't have an SRD (or at least, not a useful one), so there's no easy way to learn it without getting the books.

But Neverwinter is only very loosely inspired by 4E mechanics. There's little point in learning 4E just to play Neverwinter. Of course, I'd say learn it for the great tabletop RPG it is

To be honest I wanted to play as paladin and just figured they are NOT releasing the class with the game few days after purchasing the packs. But its ok. Perhaps the cleric is more dps oriented than the fighter? There ARE some versatility in 4e?

There is a lot of versatility in 4E. More useful diversity, in my opinion, than any other edition. Very little of that versatility appears to be making it into Neverwinter.

In Neverwinter, the Guardian Fighter and the Cleric may well have similar DPS, but the Cleric will be mostly spell-based, it appears. So not really a good stand-in for a Paladin.

I also wanted to play a dual wielder fighter as my alt (back when I was deluded thinking that the paladin was in the game), but as far as I can see this build is lost for us so far?

Yes, no dual wielding fighter in Neverwinter so far. It's available in 4E, but not here. The Rogue is a dual-wielder, though, and looks like a lot of fun to me (I expect it to be the first class I roll up).

trique76 · February 2013

Thank you both for your replies. Shame that so many cool things to me (DW and paladins) are missing so far. So, the Great Weapon Fighter is our main dps-like after the rouge? Clerics used to be our powerhouse but based on quorforged comment they seems to be way depowered now. I am totally aware they will not translate the rules as they are, just like Interplay and Bioware and Black Isle and Troika never did. But its always nice understand the general lines of what you are doing, that is way I asked for some good site with rules and not did not went ahead and grab a book.

gillrmn · February 2013

trique76 wrote: »

I am an vet player of both 2E and 3.x edition, but I totally dropped 4e. So now I need some help understand its mechanics and how the fighter works before the beta and the release. Can someone please point me a site where I can do some research? I browser the web but didnt find anything that good and specific.

To be honest I wanted to play as paladin and just figured they are NOT releasing the class with the game few days after purchasing the packs. But its ok. Perhaps the cleric is more dps oriented than the fighter? There ARE some versatility in 4e?

I also wanted to play a dual wielder fighter as my alt (back when I was deluded thinking that the paladin was in the game), but as far as I can see this build is lost for us so far?

Thanks!

You can have a look at stickied thread here:

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?23911-Brief-Lore-Intro

There are more stickies with more information if you need.

trique76 · February 2013

gillrmn wrote: »

You can have a look at stickied thread here:

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?23911-Brief-Lore-Intro

There are more stickies with more information if you need.

Thank you very much. I will check it right now.

iamtruthseeker · February 2013

Can you explain how the Basic Gameplay works?

All D&D Game Rules will be this color, while Gameplay Control and UI Information will be this color.

All players create a race and class with six different attributes: Strength, Constitution, Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma. One does "mission appropriate" and "class appropriate" things that give the character experience points (or XP) that eventually give "levels." After a certain number of levels (unspecified for thie MMO game but often the ones divisible by four in the tabletop game,) the player can choose to raise an attribute by one point for two attributes (this also may change for the MMO game.)

Unlike other tabletop D&D editions, 4th edition balances the characters by assigning roles similar to what is found in other online MMO games. (This Neverwinter Online game is the first MMO attmpting to use 4th edition in an actual online game.) Instead of the "MMO Triangle" however, there are four "roles" assigned in the "tabletop" game. Those roles are as follows:

Controller--Controllers focus on affecting multiple targets at once, either damaging or debuffing them, or altering the battlefield's terrain.

Defender--Defenders focus on blocking attacking enemies and focusing their attacks on themselves.

Leader--Leaders are focused on buffing and healing allies.

Striker--Strikers are focused on mobility, dealing heavy damage to single targets and avoiding attacks.

So, a fighter would be a defender role, a rogue a striker role and a wizard a controller roll.

The tabletop (or pen and paper) Fourth Edition game also offers suggestions on how to "set up" your classes called "builds." For instance, if you are creating a wizard, and you want to make a wizard that is more offensive attacking than enemy control oriented, there is a build called "War Wizard" that suggests how to allocate your attributes, specialization feats and attack powers.

Neverwinter Online "Builds" allow you to further "customize" your class so you could have something like a "brutal rogue" focusing more on the damage side than the vulnerability of "sneaky attacks." This means that your character may also take one one or more of the previously mentioned "roles" in the above as a secondary role also. (At the time of this posting, builds are pre-set, and there is not a confirmed number how many builds each class will get on character creation, but this section may change as we receive more information.)

All characters have powers. Powers are separated into the following: At-will powers, Encounter powers,Daily powers, and Utility powers, like the 4th Edition rules:

At-will: At-will powers go off every attack turn and are "always available." You can use them every attack, but can only use them one time per attack. In an MMO comparison, they have no cooldown timer.

Encounter: Encounter powers pack more power and often incorporate special abilities linked to a class type, (like a Trickster Rogue dropping a dummy to distract enemies and make them vulnerable to more damage.) In an MMO comparison, these are cool-down powers from six to twelve seconds potentially.

Daily: "Daily" powers gain their name from the D&D books, but are not limited to just once per day. By doing class-related activities in attacks (fighters defend, wizards control, rogues strike when they have advantages, etc.) you fill a graphical "die" up with "action" points. When filled, you can unleash your "daily" power which is a devastating attack to multiple enemies. By doing class-related activities again, you can "refill" this meter again, often taking a suggested 2-3 encounters, but results may be more or fewer encounters than this. In an MMO comparison, this is considered an "Ultimate" or "Limit Break" power.

Utility: The Utility power is often a defense power like a fighter's block, rogue's roll or a wizard's "teleport jump" to avoid being hit. Unlike the books, this MMO power appears to also be at will or encounter instead of daily in use, but more information is needed on this.

Gameplay/UI works as follows:

All players gain two at-will powers, mapped to your left and right mouse buttons.

Encounter powers are linked to the Q, E, and R keys.

Daily powers are mapped to the 1 and 2 keys.

The utility power is mapped to the shift (and sometimes tied in with a movement) key.

The character is moved using the standard WASD keyboard setup. The mouse when moved moves your character's facing or "looking" direction.

For targeting, this "Game Trailers" video (shown starting at :40 seconds) shows there is a targeting reticle. A cursor is available in-game for selection of other (non-combat mainly) User Interface (UI) actions by holding down the alt key.

Due to the fast-paced speed of the game as well as how D&D works, you will not have more than several active powers at one time (maybe seven, or possibly similar to how the tabletop game goes: two at-will powers, one to three encounter powers, one to two daily powers, and one class customized utility power such as a fighter's shield block, a rogue's jump behind the enemy or a wizard's teleport hop;) but can swap out the types of powers you want to use (from something like a powers known list) on the fly.

Finally, the tabletop game system uses the term "skills" to mean game-checked abilities the character will use (such as Arcana and Perception) and "powers" to means the attacks and utilities described above rather than the (MMO-used) term "skills." These terms will be uses as such throughout this FAQ and all Neverwinter Online descriptions, so please be aware of this when the terms "skills" and "powers" are used as such in D&D and this D&D game.

In this game, Wizards are group control or striker, clerics are leader with some control, rogues are pure DPS striker as are Great Weapon Fighters, and Guardian Fighters are most definitely defenders. So far only the rogue gets TWF.

maliusnight wrote: »

A keen understanding of 4th isn't really required for NW. Yes it is based upon the setting of 4th Edition Forgotten Realms, so you may want to find a copy of the Neverwinter book, purely for the background. The fact is however that as with most games, digital versions of the game are not really mechanically line up with the pen and paper edition. Just look at races in NW vs Races in 4th Edition. In this game humans gain a +2 to con and versatile defense, in the 4th its a +2 to a stat of choice and a free feat. So keep in mind based upon does not translate to exactly like.

I can say this is no longer true. Expect Human to be...more adaptable Of course, I can't elaborate on those details until Friday

jimhon · February 2013

Well, some basics about NWO, from what I've gathered...

You get 2 at will powers to spam as much as you like, 2 encounter powers/1 utility powers on cooldowns and 2 daily powers you charge up in combat like supermoves. You'll unlock more of these moves as you level, but can only equip that many at once.

You get feat points every level and +1 to two ability scores every 10 levels (10,20,30...)

Eventually the feats tree off into your Paragon Path which adds a bit more flavour. For eg. Clerics can be Righteous, Virtuous or Retribution, if I recall correctly.

Playing a Fighter will involve a lot of blocking, but you can only block so much before you run out of block meter and need to throw in some attacks and let it recharge.

Here's what the fighter was based around

Role: Defender. You are very tough and have the exceptional ability to contain enemies in melee.
Power Source:Martial. You have become a master of combat through endless hours of practice, determination, and your own sheer physical toughness.
Key Abilities:Strength, Dexterity, Wisdom,
Constitution
Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide, chainmail,
scale; light shield, heavy shield
Weapon Proficiencies:Simple melee, military melee,
simple ranged, military ranged
Bonus to Defense:+2 Fortitude
Hit Points at 1st Level: 15 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained:6
Healing Surges per Day: 9 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills:From the class skills list below, choose
three trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills:Athletics (Str), Endurance (Con), Heal
(Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Streetwise (Cha)
Build Options: Great weapon fighter, guardian fighter
Class Features:Combat Challenge, Combat Superiority,
Fighter Weapon Talent

Though a lot of it, such as healing surges, won't make the translation to an action videogame and have been scraped.

Dwarf gets +2con and +2str and resists knockdown, knockback and Damge over Time effects (poison, burning, bleeding, etc) in NWO

Also, in NWO, there are no points in skills. If you have "Arcana" then you have it; you don't have to level it up.

trique76 · February 2013

Thank you both truthseeker and jim, these were very helpful as well. It is good to know that the GWF will also be DPS like the rouge. One thing: is there any way to create a TWF in pnp? I am asking this because I just read the first 2 chapters of the players handbook back when the 4th edition was released. My first impression of this edition was that WotC turned D&D in a PnP MMO and more and more I have the feeling that I was right.

Btw I saw the streaming last night and it was a blast, cant wait.

I am downloading the game right now.

quorforged · February 2013

trique76 wrote: »

Thank you both truthseeker and jim, these were very helpful as well. It is good to know that the GWF will also be DPS like the rouge. One thing: is there any way to create a TWF in pnp?

Yes. Rangers can be TWF out of the PHB1, Fighters can be with the first splat book, Barbarians can be from their introduction in PHB2.

There are also ways of going TWF on every class, but they're a bit tricky and require some creative building.

I am asking this because I just read the first 2 chapters of the players handbook back when the 4th edition was released. My first impression of this edition was that WotC turned D&D in a PnP MMO and more and more I have the feeling that I was right.

That's a common first impression among those that only barely read the books.

It's generally quite rare among those that have actually given the game a fair shot and played it.

Also, worth noting here that the 3.5-based MMO launched with rules very close to the PnP game. The 4E-based MMO is launching with rules almost entirely unlike the PnP game. Precisely because 4E's rules are excellent for tabletop play, but largely incompatible with the needs of MMOs.

maliusnight · February 2013

iamtruthseeker wrote: »

I can say this is no longer true. Expect Human to be...more adaptable Of course, I can't elaborate on those details until Friday

It's almost friday... Maybe a hint?

Are there feats in NWO?

maliusnight · February 2013

Ok Ok It's Friday Give!!!!

iamtruthseeker · February 2013

Place the stat Bonus wherever you want like a true 4E Human and enjoy bonus feat points! Enjoy!

skanvak · February 2013

As we discuss rules, will the item will be level restricted? Or like true DD be free to use by any level?

gillrmn · February 2013

skanvak wrote: »

As we discuss rules, will the item will be level restricted? Or like true DD be free to use by any level?

The items are level locked as seen in videos. Zeke says that if loot is grey it means you can use it, but right now your level is too low.

skanvak · February 2013

gillrmn wrote: »

The items are level locked as seen in videos. Zeke says that if loot is grey it means you can use it, but right now your level is too low.

Thank you very much for the answer.

I am sad that they put item level restriction, very sad.

Lost about 4E, help?

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