The most amazing weapon you will use for a week

deemien · February 2013

Hello friends, I wish to discuss and maybe bring light upon a subject that is near and dear to me. When I read fantasy novels I find fantastic tales of weapons and armor that are so individual, so powerful, so amazing that they have names, personalities, and stories around them, and are one with their owners.

I however do not find stories where an almighty hammer named Browersmasher, owned by the mighty Bjllorniamir, which took 20 of his dearest friends to acquire from the very treasure room of the almighty dragon Causticia, is discarded for a "strong mace" a week later because an expansion came out..

How should loot be handled? Obviously leveling up, leather trousers of vision, swiftness, strength etc do the trick, you are a whelp, not so and so the legendary dragon slayer. Yet..

My quick thought, is when you indeed give up a precious item, which has been random name generated somehow by the way, Or even named yourself!!!!! How awesome would it be to have truly unique items for your character? When you do have to move on, or chose to, how about creating a quest for that item for an up and coming adventurer? Foundry maybe?

castagyre · February 2013

You would need gear that levels with you. IIRC LotRO tried that before I stopped playing and people hated it. MMO players want new and shiny things on a regular basis or they get all angsty.

muzrub333 · February 2013

Oh boy, I am right there with you on this. I'd say bring back the old EQ days, where loot was actually pretty rare, and upgrades even more so. In EQ, I wore the same Breast Plate for close to 20 levels, which was months of play time for me pre-Kunark. I had the same earings, rings,...forever it seemed, and I remember the really nice items. In comparison, in EQ2 last night I looted over 100 treasured items, about 50 legendary, and 15 fabled items. That's all in 5 hours of soloing. I can't tell you the name of one, as they were all just transmuted or tossed on market for sale.

Make nice usable loot rare, and bring back some of the "glam" that certain items used to have.

magmofd · February 2013

One method, like in DDO, is saving your lower level named drops and upgrading them via grinding EPIC level quest drops to create a more powerful, higher level version of the same item.

-Magmo

deathssickle · February 2013

Yah Im fine with it, people who think they should have a new weapon every 5 minutes arent. I think if it were possible for the user to write a log of what he did with the weapon and when it is given to someone else they can add their story into the log and read the previous owners logs on that weapon, so that it actually gathers story about it.

providentt · February 2013

Gonna drop some D&D Next knowledge here.

D&D Next addresses the problem of having everyone in the party geared out in magic items by the end of Heroic tier. The problem being that having so many magic items make each discovery less meaningful. Next makes magic items less upgrades on your current items, and more unique relics. Think Sting from The Hobbit. They do this by placing limitations on the number of magic items a character can have equipped, plus providing an amazing core loot randomisation table which gives less stat bonuses, and more fluff bonuses (like Sting's glow when near orcs).

So look forward to THAT if/when they make a D&D Next MMO. :P

deemien · February 2013

Awesome replies!! This is something my wife and I discuss from time to time. Yes she is amazing. Back on topic, I feel that stat inflation, or the way stats are handled in recent and current MMO's is very poor. I went to WoW for a week after 2+ years away and hit something for 100,000 damage. Yeah I don't need 1300 strength, and I don't think the creature cared what my str was, or that I hit it for 100,000, or 10 damage. So who are those numbers for? Start small, keep them under control on all items.

One thing I always liked about D&D is the low numbers. I understand the reason behind them, knowing when a creature is finished off, but they are out of control in MMO's.

magmofd · February 2013

providentt wrote: »

Gonna drop some D&D Next knowledge here.

D&D Next addresses the problem of having everyone in the party geared out in magic items by the end of Heroic tier. The problem being that having so many magic items make each discovery less meaningful. Next makes magic items less upgrades on your current items, and more unique relics. Think Sting from The Hobbit. They do this by placing limitations on the number of magic items a character can have equipped, plus providing an amazing core loot randomisation table which gives less stat bonuses, and more fluff bonuses (like Sting's glow when near orcs).

So look forward to THAT if/when they make a D&D Next MMO. :P

Hmm... ok...

No use for the game at hand, but nice to know :P

bobcat1313 · February 2013

muzrub333 wrote: »

Oh boy, I am right there with you on this. I'd say bring back the old EQ days, where loot was actually pretty rare, and upgrades even more so. In EQ, I wore the same Breast Plate for close to 20 levels, which was months of play time for me pre-Kunark. I had the same earings, rings,...forever it seemed, and I remember the really nice items. In comparison, in EQ2 last night I looted over 100 treasured items, about 50 legendary, and 15 fabled items. That's all in 5 hours of soloing. I can't tell you the name of one, as they were all just transmuted or tossed on market for sale.

Make nice usable loot rare, and bring back some of the "glam" that certain items used to have.

I rember those days.... I just went back to EQ2 to play for free till this comes out just soloing and such and I can't believe how many fabled I got soloing. I might try to see if I can recover my old EQ account.

muzrub333 · February 2013

deemien wrote: »

Awesome replies!! This is something my wife and I discuss from time to time. Yes she is amazing. Back on topic, I feel that stat inflation, or the way stats are handled in recent and current MMO's is very poor. I went to WoW for a week after 2+ years away and hit something for 100,000 damage. Yeah I don't need 1300 strength, and I don't think the creature cared what my str was, or that I hit it for 100,000, or 10 damage. So who are those numbers for? Start small, keep them under control on all items.

One thing I always liked about D&D is the low numbers. I understand the reason behind them, knowing when a creature is finished off, but they are out of control in MMO's.

I agree again. In regards to the part I highlighted; I'd love to see games simply not show you the numbers. You can watch your health bar, and the mobs health bar to see what you really need to see. Make crits, parrys, etc. show up as a visual and audible cue. Games need to get away from the narrow focus of numbers. The L337s and Ub3rs would freak because they wouldn't be able to point at others and rant about parses, but for the games in general, it would be a good thing.

aeternys123 · February 2013

we'll just have to see how weapons are really set up this weekend, and maybe that will give us an idea of how they might be handled upon any future expansion/late game

quorforged · February 2013

muzrub333 wrote: »

I agree again. In regards to the part I highlighted; I'd love to see games simply not show you the numbers. You can watch your health bar, and the mobs health bar to see what you really need to see. Make crits, parrys, etc. show up as a visual and audible cue. Games need to get away from the narrow focus of numbers.

Obfuscating game mechanics serves no useful purpose. Dedicated players will figure it all out anyway. It just serves to make the game more unfriendly and more incomprehensible to new players.

amosov78 · February 2013

I've always liked the idea of having a cosmetic slot in items, such as weapons. So if you liked the look of a sword, when you upgrade to another one with better stats, you could still keep the look of the previous one.

Now if something like that could be combined with an item naming feature in-game (a bit like how you can name starships in STO) then I think that'd go a long way to resolving a number of issues with constant item upgrades.

quorforged · February 2013

amosov78 wrote: »

I've always liked the idea of having a cosmetic slot in items, such as weapons. So if you liked the look of a sword, when you upgrade to another one with better stats, you could still keep the look of the previous one.

Yes, this is definitely something I'd like to see, for both weapons and armor. LOTRO does this and I was quite envious when I was playing DDO.

silvergryph · February 2013

I'm hoping that the mysterious crafting system includes a way to move enchantments from one item to another. I even dare to hope that the Identify scrolls are not lock box keys, but rather used to unlock an item's slotted enchantments so they can be upgraded or transferred. And also that I win the Florida state lottery tonight...

alairanfennec · February 2013

All I could think of with this is Drizzt and his ever being replaced scimitars.

kentheprogrammer · February 2013

I think it's difficult to keep the general public's attention without throwing shiny loot at them on a regular basis. I would agree that something should be done (having many more fluff modifiers sounds like an interesting solution), but having a magic item only drop on average once per week for a character is going to be boring for a lot of the general public.

The fluff modifiers idea would address this in a couple of ways as it would not only allow for magical drops to occur on a somewhat regular basis still and I think that the fluff modifiers (glowing swords, cool looking skins, etc...) would allow for the "I'm a unique snowflake" feeling that a lot of people who play like to achieve. I for one might be willing to forego a small stat bonus on a piece of gear for a cooler looking piece of gear with some interesting modifier.

torskaldr · February 2013

My favorite system was in Lineage where you could enchant your items to make them more powerful but risked their destruction in the process. Items weren't bound so you could trade them. They didn't become obsolete. Some people actually made a business out of enchanting items to a modest level and selling them for others to risk over-enchanting.

If you don't have a method for item loss then the world becomes saturated with excess stuff and item trade stagnates.

Mirroring a novel doesn't really work either. The purpose of the novel isn't to illustrate the character's power progression as they grow from insignificance. The purpose of the novel is to tell the story. An rpg has to accomplish several goals and the more restrictive framework of pure storytelling doesn't work well.

doctorcomics · February 2013

The OP is on target with his basic observation: the games we play do not mirror the stories we tell and the films and novels we love. A couple of different approaches have been used, and in my opinion they both work well.

The first is the Legendary Item system, found in LotRO. While some posters here have said they "hated it," legendary items are pretty accepted in LotRO now after many years and they're fun and workable. They are items which gain XP at the same time you do. The item has "sockets" which you can slot gems or whatever into, and this customizes the item to give you buffs to specific class powers. In this way, the item suits your play style. If you have a debuff which you especially like to use, you can make it more powerful, reduce its recharge time, and so on.

The other way, far simpler, is to have a cosmetic system where you can move the appearance of one item onto another. This is found in, for example, GuildWars2. You don't have a cosmetic slot for your weapon -- this appears to be hard (read: expensive) to program, because almost no one does it. Instead, when you find an item you like, you can move its skin from the original item to a new one, when you find a new one with better stats. So Glamdring's stats may change week-to-week as Gandalf finds a new cool sword, but that's all "out of character." In character, Glamdring is Glamdring, he always has it, and you, the player, just move the skin for Glamdring from one weapon to another as you level.

We are far, far more likely to get #2 than #1, but if our devs are serious about a D&D simulation, we will not get either, because D&D is a prime example of a game in which you throw out your father's sword for that +4 defender, which is just so much better.

castagyre · February 2013

quorforged wrote: »

Obfuscating game mechanics serves no useful purpose. Dedicated players will figure it all out anyway. It just serves to make the game more unfriendly and more incomprehensible to new players.

This is very true. Anyone familiar with the evolution of CoH could have seen it in action and how giving players the numbers over time solved a lot of problems.

doctorcomics wrote: »

While some posters here have said they "hated it,"

I didn't hate it. I thought it was kind of cool. But a lot of people did hate it at the time I played last.

zagemogga · February 2013

amosov78 wrote: »

I've always liked the idea of having a cosmetic slot in items, such as weapons. So if you liked the look of a sword, when you upgrade to another one with better stats, you could still keep the look of the previous one.

This is a nice thing in Warhammer, armors have trophy slots. As an orc you can put skulls, a cup and other items in these and they show up, orcs also grow with increasing level and become bigger

syberghost · February 2013

doctorcomics wrote: »

The OP is on target with his basic observation: the games we play do not mirror the stories we tell and the films and novels we love. A couple of different approaches have been used, and in my opinion they both work well.

The first is the Legendary Item system, found in LotRO. While some posters here have said they "hated it," legendary items are pretty accepted in LotRO now after many years and they're fun and workable. They are items which gain XP at the same time you do.

Both Champions Online and Star Trek Online currently have some items like this. They are generally of comparable quality to mid-range Uncommon gear, which makes them wonderful for leveling, and unsuitable for endgame.

The item has "sockets" which you can slot gems or whatever into, and this customizes the item to give you buffs to specific class powers. In this way, the item suits your play style. If you have a debuff which you especially like to use, you can make it more powerful, reduce its recharge time, and so on.

Champions Online has gear like this, but it's not the "Heirloom" gear (the above levels-with-you stuff). STO has nothing like this.

oldskylancer · February 2013

SWTOR lets you level gear but there's a whole economy based around crafting and aquisition of the upgrade components. I do not know if they are suitable for endgame content but cool gear I aquired in my 30's did get me to max level(50).

providentt · February 2013

doctorcomics wrote: »

We are far, far more likely to get #2 than #1, but if our devs are serious about a D&D simulation, we will not get either, because D&D is a prime example of a game in which you throw out your father's sword for that +4 defender, which is just so much better.

I'm not very well versed on 3.5e, but I know 4e actually does have a legendary item system. These items have their own personalities and goals. For example, a Mace of Pelor would want to help and defend the weak, heal people and do good deeds. If the player does these things, he gains repuation with the item. If he does the opposite, he loses reputation with it. As your reputation changes, you gain more bonuses (or penalties in the case of negative reputation). It actually worked really well. In one my games as DM I had a boss throw a dagger in the eye of the party's wizard, then cast a curse on the dagger. Within a day the eye doubled in size and went grey, becoming the Eye of Vecna which gave her weird abilities, like being able to see invisible creatures and objects, and being able to sense certain magics. It ended up being the turning point in the fight against the Big Bad of that story arc.

So yeah, D&D does actually have a cool system like that, but its use is sadly relatively rare and overshadowed by the multitudes of regular magical items you tend to attain.

The most amazing weapon you will use for a week

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