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Forums > Home› Class Forums› The Militia Barracks

Blocking in Neverwinter - It's not a dice roll (Thank Goodness!)

godofthornsgodofthorns Member Posts: 5 Arc User
edited March 2013 in The Militia Barracks
Okay, the link below has some interesting stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs8lf_xJbsQ&list=PLB_nm3ya50N_SPsMzIvy13lj78KYZVAi3

In particular, it mentions about the Guardian Fighter being the class designed to stay in one spot and soak up the damage via the 'Block Meter'.

Neverwinter's decision on this particular blocking mechanic is an excellent move away from other recent games such as RaiderZ.

I am not against RaiderZ as a whole; however, I do have an issue with RaiderZ's blocking.

While the Defenders in the RaiderZ game have blocking, there are, at least, two issues of note.

Issue 1 - Even if you successfully block with a shield using the 'Right Mouse Button', the blocking mechanic still requires a dice roll to determine whether it is a full block or a (more-than-likely) partial block.

Issue 2 - There are many mobs that possess unblockable attacks (some mobs possess multiple unblockable attacks). Even though I am specced as a full Defender, I spend most of my time using RaiderZ's dodging actions way more than I do the blocking. Some players like this part of the combat. I guess I would feel better about it if I was playing a less-armored, more-DPS class/role.

What are your thoughts on blocking mechanics?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Thorn
Post edited by godofthorns on

Comments

  • ruinedmirageruinedmirage Member Posts: 440 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2013
    When playing a fighting game against seasoned players, the risk is always higher when jumping over something or dodging (backing into a corner) rather than taking a few points of chip damage and preparing for a counterattack. I haven't played RaiderZ or NWO and know nothing about the mechanics except what's been talked about here.

    It's interesting to make all of the roles have a different utility power, but once hybridization comes in, everyone will start looking and playing the same regardless.
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I loved reading your opinions.
  • iamtruthseekeriamtruthseeker Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Blocking options may have chances to fail based on reaction but having auto fail a la RaiderZ is outright stupid. Glad to see the fighter was (re)done right in NW.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    [ RoC | ToS | PM | Extended FAQ | Wizards Rock ]
  • godofthornsgodofthorns Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    iamtruthseeker wrote: »
    Blocking options may have chances to fail based on reaction but having auto fail a la RaiderZ is outright stupid. Glad to see the fighter was (re)done right in NW.

    Truth, when you say blocking options may have chances to fail based on reaction...you are referring to a player's reaction/reflexes (i.e. how quick/timely a player can hit the "shift" key to block an attack), or are you referring to something else?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Thorn
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    godofthorns wrote: »
    ...you are referring to a player's reaction/reflexes (i.e. how quick/timely a player can hit the "shift" key to block an attack)...

    We don't know of anything else beyond that.


    @truth - however your relief may be short-lived truth.

    RaiderZ has a cap on how much damage you can block. There is no reason to believe that NW does not have that cap. However, in RaiderZ the cap is very low that at level bosses can easily overcome it. Hope in NW that cap is kept much higher.
  • mewbreymewbrey Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 517 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2013
    From what we have seen the blocking seams the same as lancers in Tera, its a nice system in all honesty, as long as it does not become the main role of the defender to stand there as in Tera where the lancer is stood around with their shield up a lot. I have a feeling from the videos we have seen that monsters animated visual timers will be set in a way that allows the defenders to play a much more active part of the combat, other than standing around behind a shield with little else being done.

    This does however make me think how the clerics shield is going to work, for those clerics that opt to use a shield. Will it be the same as the guardian fighters shield mechanic or will it be a different one? food for thought.

    Edit:
    From the videos we see you can see that blocking has a cap in neverwinter, it is then built back up via inflicting damage to a target. You will see it as a yellow bar above the daily "dice" image. You must use encounter skills to build the block back up, however and at wills do not seam to regenerate the block bar, unless it is at an extremely slow rate (we have not seen enough footage.)

    Observations can be made from here (Official video):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0_wnyPspNE
    Points of interest:
    0:44 & 0:49 (Block bar reduced upon taking direct damage)
    1:09 (Regenerating block bar upon using daily skill)
    ~*~ Foundry missions: Stronghold Branax : Goblin menace : Forwyn crypts ~*~
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    mewbrey wrote: »
    ...
    This does however make me think how the clerics shield is going to work, for those clerics that opt to use a shield. Will it be the same as the guardian fighters shield mechanic or will it be a different one? food for thought.

    Most probably, the damage cap it absorbs before it goes down will be much much lower than a defender.
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    mewbrey wrote: »
    ...
    Edit:
    From the videos we see you can see that blocking has a cap in neverwinter, it is then built back up via inflicting damage to a target. You will see it as a yellow back above the daily "dice" image.

    As long as the cap is high enough to take 2 maximum blows from at-level boss, it should be fine. In RaiderZ the cap is too low to take even one completely.
  • iamtruthseekeriamtruthseeker Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Oh, was referring to what looks like the player's reaction to using the fighter blocking based on videos. I could be wrong on this and will have to see.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    [ RoC | ToS | PM | Extended FAQ | Wizards Rock ]
  • adeshiradeshir Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    From the little bit I watched the video it looked like the larger mob did a charge attack. It's arm held across it's body and over the other shoulder. Giving you a large bright sign saying: "Block soon!" Where as the lesser mob was just making auto-attack pot shots at the guardian. And with that I would asume... That is it based on the player's ability too read the battle and the mobs attacking him along with his/her reflexes.

    If I am correct. Then a a good strat on multi-mob pulls, with little to no cc. Would be too do a charge/lunge into battle, do a clockwise or counter clockwise quarter or half circle too collaspe the mobs infront of you and watch their weapon swings.
  • godofthornsgodofthorns Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    You bring up some good tactical stuff. Speaking of tactics, one of the things I was reminded of was the size a player makes their toon. In City of Heroes, when it first came out, alot of Tankers made great big, brawy toons using the 'supersize' body type. Over time, it was discovered that groups of mobs could get at you much easier if you were the size of a barn (i.e. by enlarging your toon you also enlarged your toon's hit boxes). Upon this discovery, many players kept their Tankers average size or even used a smaller scale (i.e. the size of small children = less available hit boxes). This would force the mobs who were properly Taunted to bottle-neck themselves getting to you. The toon-size-tactic would go hand-in-hand with the tactic of using an enclosed area like moving into a corner or staying in a single-file doorway. This issue has also come up in TERA. Using the larger player race of Baraka (basically Giants) means that your hit boxes were greater than other races (this was recently addressed in a patch - the Baraka's hit boxes were slightly reduced, while some of the other races, such as the Elin and Popori, were slightly increased). That being said, I still intend to create a Human or Dwarf Guardian Fighter...I just won't "enlarge" the character past the average size...let those taunted/aggroed mobs of scum and villainy move around themselves to get at me!

    On a side-note: Do you think the Devs will allow the "At-Will" Powers to be re-mapped to something other than the Left and Right Mouse buttons? I only ask because after playing RaiderZ and TERA for a bit, I do enjoy having the "Block" Power tied to the Right Mouse button instead of the Shift key. It just feels more natural to me, and, I could re-map the "Tide of Iron" Power to one of the other keys. If someone knows anything about this issue, please let me know.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Thorn
  • adeshiradeshir Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I would not mind being able too macroing either too the side button on my Razor Naga.
  • godofthornsgodofthorns Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    adeshir wrote: »
    I would not mind being able too macroing either too the side button on my Razor Naga.

    LOL ... That is exactly what I had in mind (I use my Razor Naga religiously).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Thorn
  • joka3ljoka3l Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    godofthorns wrote: »
    LOL ... That is exactly what I had in mind (I use my Razor Naga religiously).

    Naga, best thing since sliced bread! I have a spare waiting for the one I been using for the past 2 years to fail.

    I pre-ordered, I am an old-school D&D player, all the way back to red box in like 1980, if not earlier. Had a Chainmail rule-set companion as well. Longtime MMO player, haven't played any D&D since DDO at its release.

    I am looking forward to this game, especially liking the combat. I enjoyed TERA but my buddies left for GW2, and now we are in Rift. We all pre-ordered this though.
    Are there going to be any Raiding adventures in this game? 10-20man encounters? First time on forums, i'm looking and hoping.
    Khal Drogo
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  • johnny305johnny305 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Raiderz is terrible. It is not really action combat. Its a quick money grab that tried to make a cheap knockoff of tera and other action combat games that came out. Even Wizardry has better combat and blocking than Raiderz.

    This game however is using real action combat so blocking is based on us reacting to a blow or spell aimed at us.
  • iamtruthseekeriamtruthseeker Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    The only thing I'm uncertain on is remapping with the mouse at-will powers. It seems very likely you can though.
    As for raiding...the later releases MIGHT offer larger person content at level cap, but for now, 5 person delves or other events.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    [ RoC | ToS | PM | Extended FAQ | Wizards Rock ]
  • doomking70doomking70 Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Blocking in DDO "Dungeons and Dragons online" is the best all i do is hit and hold shift and im blocking. DR "Damage reduction " is then applied. to do this any other way is ... well i cant think of a respectable word too say. ive seen alot of things i like fresh eye candy for sure but the game mechanics.. the character advancment skills feats every thing being in tree's leaves alot too be desired for me . my wish is that some one would just make a fresh new DDO. My hope was this was it.. but sadly no :(
    Die
  • chuckfchuckf Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I think the active blocking system is very well done. It does feel like you have a great deal of control in how much damage you take.
  • horrorscope666horrorscope666 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 415 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2013
    I think it is a good choice. As you mention other games are making dodge the new big thing, but for tanks it makes play sloppy and they aren't doing their role of holding the battle tightly. Those other games get a bit Benny Hill'ish due to this.
  • turokhammerstoneturokhammerstone Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    AS far as the blocking damage cap, is there a way to influence it? Does STR or CON increase the amount of DMG your shield can take? Are there secondary systems like Honor, Recovery or Glory that adds to the amount?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • lrddreadlrddread Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    godofthorns wrote: »
    LOL ... That is exactly what I had in mind (I use my Razor Naga religiously).

    You can map any key on the naga to be any key you want as far as i know?
  • godofthornsgodofthorns Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    lrddread wrote: »
    You can map any key on the naga to be any key you want as far as i know?

    Yes, during the first Beta Weekend, I mapped the Daily Power, Encounter Powers, At-Will Powers, the 3 usable item slots and my special ability (tab or shift, depending on class/build) to my Razor Naga. I only used the keyboard for WASD movement, spacebar jumping and "F" keying for quests/interaction with NPCs.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Thorn
  • unjustbladeunjustblade Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 91
    edited February 2013
    turokhammerstone wrote: »
    AS far as the blocking damage cap, is there a way to influence it? Does STR or CON increase the amount of DMG your shield can take? Are there secondary systems like Honor, Recovery or Glory that adds to the amount?

    You get a 10% bonus to your guard meter at level 20 I think. Other than that, I don't know if your guard meter can be increased.
  • bruddajokkabruddajokka Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 447 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2013
    Hey at least they can move, and attack while blocking now. Back when I tried it at Gencon. They were rooted in place, and could only block.
  • maddllamamaddllama Member Posts: 223 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    If I am not mistaken the guard meter moved to the left and is a purple shield bar to the left of the character's screen. That is what I had in the first beta weekend.
    5444373MbVxa.png
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  • adevlin1991adevlin1991 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 56
    edited March 2013
    Blocking looks like it's implemented rather well. One thing I noticed from the gameplay videos I've seen so far is that "kiting" seems to be very strong vs almost every melee mob since they stop to attack. I hope they fix this or full ranged groups will cheese melee bosses.
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