Using features from that game in this game

gillrmn · October 2012

One of the most enjoyable games which was quite repeatable was NFS U2 which seems to be very similar to how NW is being developed.

The game itself was very very boring, repeatable and unrealistic(the collisions, lol) but the customization was what made the game great with replay value. In fact it was just fantastic when played over and over and over. It had no raids (rally with more than 12 cars) but it was sufficient with 6 member party.

Pressing reset after the car was akin to death penalty in D&D. The penalty in that game was very light - just a few seconds and you pressing the reset button. So death penalty in this game should be there but should be light.

That game had very nicely 'pimped' cars. Vinyls, carbon hoods(which looked ugly on low res monitor) and stuff. So player character (PC) should have a lot of 'pimping' options. However the accessories were quite realistic even when unrealistic. NW should have realistic but 'pimped' clothes and stuff for player characters.

Even when race tracks were defined, a few changes in car's performance changed the game radically. The first level was the same with one really slow car. NW also starts with pre-made builds which would be statically very similar - except for if it is a truck, a light car, a drift or a racecar (roles). Added bonus is races which makes for more options. However important part than initial stats is building up your car ... i mean character. Even with same character as it levels up we should have many options which we can put points to like nitro-boost/accelaration(read DPS), wheel balance(read controller powers), brakes power(read heal) and horsepower/topspeed(read tank/endurance). That way leveling up I can make my own car and feel emotionally involved and think - yeah this is my ca... i mean character.

PvP i.e. multiplayer does not affect the single player game. Stats/strategy in single player game is for fun. Multiplayer/PvP is for competition and na na na na feeling. Keep them statistically seperate, like in that game you load them separately from the menu. There are rewards from competition(like when you get challenged by random traffic car) and get oppurtunity for unlocks. However, those cars in single player were AI thus PvE and not PvP. Hence keep them separate.

There should be tough and rewarding non-combat events - like reach this shop in this minutes to get performance unlocks... I mean like skill checks, diplomacy etc. to get special stuff once in a while.

When playing with trucks the races update with trucks and when playing with speed cars, the tracks update with speed cars. Hence players should be rewarded for excelling in their chosen areas like tanking, control etc.

There were spectacular jumps with hang time. Some cool animation for every critical hit would be nice (doesn't have to be slow mo - just animation).

The cars had hydraulics which when car stops can be used to fill up a small amount of nitro. Similarly /emotes should be used to fill up the nitro ... i.e. give small amount of XP. Let that XP be lesser than what you get when you kill low level green monster - but give some token XP. It won't be viable path to level up and niether were hydraulics a viable way to fill up nitro. But thats "cool".

Style is very important - burn outs, slides around corners, finding shortcuts - all added to style. Make the characters stylish even when they are getting their backsides fried.

Appropriate cool soundtrack.

~~~~
For now I can think of these from that game. I believe these games are very similar and can have a lot in common, including commercial success and my love

p.s. lastly, in that game to start race and tell rules they had nice succubus like girls *S&P guys in suits appear* *being carried away*

iamtruthseeker · October 2012

gillrmn wrote: »

NW should have realistic but 'pimped' clothes and stuff for player characters.

I just couldn't get past this. Are you saying we should dress like Pimps?

Wait for the Bard class to be released first! b:mischievous

I'll hold off on the rest of the comparison 'cause I don't know the game well enough.

stormdrag0n · October 2012

iamtruthseeker wrote: »

I just couldn't get past this. Are you saying we should dress like Pimps?

Wait for the Bard class to be released first! b:mischievous

I'll hold off on the rest of the comparison 'cause I don't know the game well enough.

But..but what if we don't want to dress like pimps?

b:shocked

iamtruthseeker · October 2012

stormdrag0n wrote: »

But..but what if we don't want to dress like pimps?

b:shocked

The Fashion police or Clown Pa-troll, which will enforce this....

(get it troll in there?)

vangald · October 2012

What is NFS again?

Things from other games I would like to see.

Business system from The Guild.
Politics system similar to The Political Machine.
Trade route system inspired Ticket To Ride
Crafting similar to Minecraft
Bonding gift system for allies similar to that in Dragon Age
If allowed to make an evil character allow for a lair system using the foundry ala Evil Genius or Dungeon Keeper (and maybe a minion system based on Ghost Master)
Housing similar to Ultima online
LA Noire style dialog memes
LOTRO music instrument like system for bards
Something similar to Torchlights send the dog to town to sell your stuff ability
Delve Deeper-esque multi adventure party dungeons

ezrasteel1 · October 2012

Meaningful crafting is something that I would like to see. How many times have you reached endgame in an MMO and found that your crafted armor or weapons were junk compared to what you could pick up in running quests? I would like to see some sort of legacy system implemented in which once you achieved the highest rank in your crafting speciality, you could then craft a legendary item that would stay with you for the rest of you adventuring time and be at the same level or higher than something you would pick up as part of dungeon loot.

Crafting such a weapon would require a lot of effort but would be rewarded with a similarly powerful piece. This would have to be a one shot item, possibly two for duel weapons users, or bound to the player, not an item for resale.

Thoughts?

My Best,

Ezra Steel

gillrmn · October 2012

ezrasteel1 wrote: »

Meaningful crafting is something that I would like to see. How many times have you reached endgame in an MMO and found that your crafted armor or weapons were junk compared to what you could pick up in running quests? I would like to see some sort of legacy system implemented in which once you achieved the highest rank in your crafting speciality, you could then craft a legendary item that would stay with you for the rest of you adventuring time and be at the same level or higher than something you would pick up as part of dungeon loot.

Crafting such a weapon would require a lot of effort but would be rewarded with a similarly powerful piece. This would have to be a one shot item, possibly two for duel weapons users, or bound to the player, not an item for resale....

I would like if you can explain on these questions too considering some particular game:-
How much was the success of that particular game credited to crafting?
Did they decide to tone down the crafting from what they initially had in mind or did they notch it up gradually?
How much was the shelf life affected by it?
Any more details with analogy?

vangald wrote: »

What is NFS again?

...

Not NFS, but NFS U2.
Also, instead of comparing different features from all games, it is better to compare all features of one game.
I would like if you also post your analysis of each game one by one explaining each system and how they can all be compared and interpreted. After all, we all are waiting for now

iamtruthseeker wrote: »

I just couldn't get past this. Are you saying we should dress like Pimps?
...

Oh! I just watch the programs on making cars beautiful and my terminolofy was affected by the anchor of the said program. That was also the reason I remembered the NFS U2 game. Though the game was different it struck me that a lot of its elements are similar to NW and it can learn from it too.

ezrasteel1 · October 2012

SWTOR has a legendary weapons crafting system, but I didn't explore it very much. I have crafted in other games and do find it enjoyable. LOTRO had a good system and I would wear my crafted items during much of the course of game play, as it typically was superior to that found during adventuring. The major exception was when you reached endgame and then your crafted items became useless, as the game progression needed you to have specific armor types or such.

I guess what I am suggesting is consideration of the endgame as it refers to crafting. When a crafter maxes out his skills and his items become useless because of game requirements, then what is he to do? That is why I think a "legendary" system should be put in place. Scaling the weapons up is an option, another would be linking the weapon (or armor, magic item, etc.) to levels is another option that could be looked into. Perhaps as the character advances in levels, he can modify his weapon using rare items to enhance it to correspond to his advancement within the game.

An example of this would be Joe Blacksmith. He is a crafter extraordinare and he builds himself a mighty war hammer. Joe weilds the hammer throughout much of his adventuring career and it meets his needs until he reaches (insert here) level. Then the weapon becomes less useful. Being the master crafter that he is, he researches methods to improve the weapon and sets off on a quest to gather the needed components. Once he locates them all, he refires the weapon, making it better than before and up to the tasks before him. This would be effective both at level cap and beyond as the game design takes it.

I hope that I explained this clearly. It is just my ramblings and thoughts.

My Best,

Ezra Steel

pilf3r · October 2012

I like your ramblings they sound good! I can think of a paladin weapon that would especially go well with this idea.

marenor · October 2012

I agree with Ezra Steel's ramblings as well. It has been awhile since I played MMO's but I did notice that the crafting left something to be desired for effectiveness for playing. I always seemed to be able to receive an item drop that was more useful than the items I was capable of crafting. Although I enjoyed the crafting components of the games I played, it always seemed that completing quests was a more beneficial use of my game time. There is the problem of proliferation if the high level crafters can reproduce items which are close to the equivalent of the rarer dropped items though. One of the requirements for crafting these items could be a time requirement, the more powerful the item, the more time spent researching for just the one crafting instance, the more time to retrieve the materials and the longer the duration of the actual crafting. This removes the chars ability to adventure for that time, which should deter most players from creating too many of them. Binding them to a char originally, not necessarily the crafter, but a designated player should slow down proliferation as well. The one problem I still see is a players dedicating one char to crafting and another to adventuring which could create proliferation but if char level was able to limit crafting ability then that would be prevented. That is an inelegant possible solution but a possible one.

varrvarr · October 2012

ezrasteel1 wrote: »

SWTOR has a legendary weapons crafting system, but I didn't explore it very much. I have crafted in other games and do find it enjoyable. LOTRO had a good system and I would wear my crafted items during much of the course of game play, as it typically was superior to that found during adventuring. The major exception was when you reached endgame and then your crafted items became useless, as the game progression needed you to have specific armor types or such.

I guess what I am suggesting is consideration of the endgame as it refers to crafting. When a crafter maxes out his skills and his items become useless because of game requirements, then what is he to do? That is why I think a "legendary" system should be put in place. Scaling the weapons up is an option, another would be linking the weapon (or armor, magic item, etc.) to levels is another option that could be looked into. Perhaps as the character advances in levels, he can modify his weapon using rare items to enhance it to correspond to his advancement within the game.

An example of this would be Joe Blacksmith. He is a crafter extraordinare and he builds himself a mighty war hammer. Joe weilds the hammer throughout much of his adventuring career and it meets his needs until he reaches (insert here) level. Then the weapon becomes less useful. Being the master crafter that he is, he researches methods to improve the weapon and sets off on a quest to gather the needed components. Once he locates them all, he refires the weapon, making it better than before and up to the tasks before him. This would be effective both at level cap and beyond as the game design takes it.

I hope that I explained this clearly. It is just my ramblings and thoughts.

My Best,

Ezra Steel

I don't remember any legendary weapons crafting in SWTOR, crafting in that game was pretty bland in my opinion, though I did like the use of Companions to gather most of the materials. End game crafting was a bit odd though because it forced players to participate in both the space content (some elite level mats could only be bought with fleet commendations) and in Operations (SWTOR's Raids).

The one thing that SWTOR had that was good was a good chunk of the gear could be modded so you could keep your training robes if you wanted and just swap out the components parts to change the stats.

I am a big fan of the idea of allowing players to have gear that grows with them and improving that gear rather than forcing them to swap out weapons and armor every few levels to stay relevant. I even champion the idea of allowing players to pick gear at stage one and level it up along with their character, but no game has taken this approach yet and I doubt they will, there is too much invested in the carrot and stick of gear progression.

I am not against the "re-firing" idea, but what bothers me is how you balance this for all gear, Most games don't allow you to master all the crafting professions, so what happens at end game when you want to make your chest piece relevant again, but you're a weapon smith? There is a great deal of potential for griefing, or do you allow crafters to sell "item respec" kits? It is not that it couldn't work, there are just potential stumbling blocks.

I want a game where crafted gear is as good or better than loot drops, I think crafting needs a proper place at the table for any MMO meal and should not be relegated to the kids table, but I'm not sure how to do it properly.

iamtruthseeker · October 2012

Agreed. If you spend the time, you should be allowed to be good at all crafting.

vangald · October 2012

gillrmn wrote: »

Not NFS, but NFS U2.
Also, instead of comparing different features from all games, it is better to compare all features of one game.
I would like if you also post your analysis of each game one by one explaining each system and how they can all be compared and interpreted. After all, we all are waiting for now

OK. I am going to string this across multiple posts.

So starting off with the Guild series.

The Guild

The general concept of the The Guild is an economic strategy game. You start a dynasty of sorts. Actually hell here is a quote from wikipedia:

The Guild 2 is a combination life simulator and economic strategy game that is set in Europe, beginning in the year 1400. The player creates a character who becomes the founding member of a "dynasty," and, based on their chosen profession (also referred to as character class), may purchase, build, and take over various businesses. The game incorporates the following modes:

Extinction: Challenges the player to be the last one standing.
Dynasty : A mode that has no official ending and continues for as long as the player's dynasty exists. It ends when the last member of the dynasty dies.
Mission : A certain objective to be reached may be set by the player. Accomplishing the mission ends the game.
Time limit: This game ends after a certain number of rounds, which is determined by the player.

All game modes can be played in varying difficulties ranging from easy to hard, chosen by a slider on the game creation screen.

Basically I would take is that you can start a business. Either an establishment or a service. You can then try and compete with other business in the area selling your goods and services.

In the guild your business choices are dependent on your profession:

Professions

There are four main professions that the player may choose for the first member of the dynasty:

Patron: The Patron is considered to be one-half of the backbone of society. They can construct buildings such as farms, public houses (which may be upgraded into taverns and inns), and bakeries; and provide many raw materials that can be turned into foodstuffs and other basic necessities. Patrons are largely self-sufficient in terms of their resource production and manufacturing, in that the wheat that is produced in a Patron's farm may be sent to the same Patron's bakery to be made into bread, thus leaving all profits in the hands of the character.
Crafts(wo)man: Crafts(wo)men are considered to be one-half of the backbone of society. They can construct buildings such as mines, woodcutter's huts, and various workshops such as foundries, carpenter's shops, and weaving mills. Crafts(wo)men are largely self-sufficient in terms of their resource production and manufacturing for many of their businesses. For example, the Mine produces iron, gold, silver, and/or precious gemstones which can be transported to the foundry where it can be turned into useful items such as tools, weapons, and jewelry.
Scholar: The goods that Scholars produce are often very specialized. A Scholar can build a church, a tinctury, and the pesthouse (which may be upgraded to an infirmary, then to a hospital). Most of the goods that these buildings ultimately produce are items that can be used by a character or their henchmen to improve certain attributes that will make them temporarily more effective.
Rogue: The Rogue is the only class that does not produce anything by itself. Instead, Rogues can build robber's nests, smuggling holes, and pirate havens. The main form of income from these productions might be waylaying travelers or resource carts, pickpocketing, or viciously assaulting competitors' businesses. Rogues and their employees can also hold members of competing dynasties for ransom.

You could also gain titles that show how well you are doing. Those different titles would then open up perks such as owning more establishments, more businesses, maybe some minor political abilities (for instance if you were in a merchants guild it might open up some ways of steering the agenda of your guild).

Then there the dynasty aspect. You can have kids and a family. Those members could help run the family business.

This could add some of the engagement that has been rather big in EVE Online.

vangald · October 2012

Also as an offshoot how do you folks feel about the idea of a business that is about being an assassin. The idea is that other players can hire you and you will have chances to pop into to marked players missions up to 3 times to try and kill them. If you manage you get the pay for completing the mission. If you don't it hurts your business and whatever perks that business grants. It can only be one assassin per mission. Thoughts?

ezrasteel1 · October 2012

I know that it is late in the development of this game and that the bulk of the game has already been set in stone, but I had a thought that might be something that could be implemented in the game at some point.

While exploring the world of Skyrim, one of the things I really enjoyed was picking up the various books and journals that I happened across in my travels. Fortunately there were mechanics in the game that let you keep the books on bookshelves and such as they did tend to accumulate at a rather fast pace. I read each and every book that I picked up as they were filled with bits of lore and history of the game I was playing.

I would love to see something similar to this implemented in this game. When player housing is implemented in the game, I would love to have a library filled with the volumes that I gathered on my adventuring career. There are some short term methods in which this could be implemented as it seems pack space is always an issue, or at least when first starting out. One method could be a designated "bag of holding" that would only permit the user to place books and tomes in it. This would be somewhat easy to implement and allow users a temporary place to store the volumes until other methods could be employed.

If the idea is appealing, you could take it a few steps forward. As others have said, players like titles. This could be applied to our collection of books. If one were to collect X number of rare volumes, they could be granted the title of "student" and could be taken up through various ranks to "sage" or whatever terminology would be used. Even the highest ranking could be broken down into specialties, depending on the tomes they collected, i.e., books on history, books on blacksmithing, books on magic theory, etc. Long term, there could be extremely rare books that require quite a bit of adventuring to track down and secure.

One thing I suspect most of us enjoy is immersing ourselves in the lore and history of the games that we play. The developers often include books and such to give us glimpses into that. By implementing a "library" for the players, this would enhance that aspect of the game. While this is just a rough-out suggestion, I'm sure the bright minds in this forum and on the development team can flesh it out further, making it a game feature worthy of inclusion at some point within the game.

Well, that's my two cents, and as always, the views and opinions expressed here are simply my own, feel free to disregard them!

My Best,

Ezra Steel

gillrmn · October 2012

I know that it is late in the development of this game and that the bulk of the game has already been set in stone, but I had a thought that might be something that could be implemented in the game at some point.

While exploring the world of Skyrim, one of the things I really enjoyed was picking up the various books and journals that I happened across in my travels. Fortunately there were mechanics in the game that let you keep the books on bookshelves and such as they did tend to accumulate at a rather fast pace. I read each and every book that I picked up as they were filled with bits of lore and history of the game I was playing.
Already confirmed at least 1 year ago
I would love to see something similar to this implemented in this game. When player housing is implemented in the game, I would love to have a library filled with the volumes that I gathered on my adventuring career. There are some short term methods in which this could be implemented as it seems pack space is always an issue, or at least when first starting out. One method could be a designated "bag of holding" that would only permit the user to place books and tomes in it. This would be somewhat easy to implement and allow users a temporary place to store the volumes until other methods could be employed.
I have always supported flying castle as my house. I need my own mote b:cry

jiger007 · October 2012

To be honest at this point id like to see at least a possibility of player created raids for this game for 10+ party groups.

So far the achilies hill for cryptic has been content. STO has nice smooth graphics, good animations, a bit glitchy here and there but nothing too game breaking but the content is HORRIBLE. Sure the space missions are sorta ok, but thats only cause its niche and no one else has 3D space combat like that (eve does but its totally different). Ground missions are really bland and boring.

So honestly i expect cryptic to do a good job withe engine and animations and due to their past reputation i expect the initial content to be really bad i just hope they have the tools in the game for players do develop content that is actually good. I know there is alot of creative people in NW community the question is, are the tools robust enough to create something that is actually awesome.

Again even if cryptic is set in stone with their 5man group thing for their inhouse offerings, i hope there are tools for players to make raid oriented content for those that enjoy that sort of thing.

valas625 · October 2012

vangald wrote: »

Also as an offshoot how do you folks feel about the idea of a business that is about being an assassin. The idea is that other players can hire you and you will have chances to pop into to marked players missions up to 3 times to try and kill them. If you manage you get the pay for completing the mission. If you don't it hurts your business and whatever perks that business grants. It can only be one assassin per mission. Thoughts?

I like this idea, but I see it being hard to implement in game. For one, you KNOW a rich troll will eventually start taking out hits on everyone. In which case either you will be screwed into no business because you've got too many hits, and not enough time in between (assuming there's a time limit, otherwise you could put out an everlasting mark) OR you could manage to pull it off, but no one would want to play because every time you go to do a dungeon or anything, you get ganked. There's also the issue of you being hired for a hit, but the person you're supposed to kill doesn't log onto that toon for a while, knowing there's a hit out on them. So they just wait till it expires, and you're screwed everytime. Or they could simply not play at the same time of day as you. I see way too many problems with this idea for it to work, but it just sounds fantastic at the same time. Also, if they managed to do this, I'd hope Cryptic does other player relevant missions/guilds for each of the classes. Dunno how it'd work for player-to-player effectiveness, but I think it'd be a great add-in idea for later on. Thieves guild will always be my favorite though. Every city needs a good pasha or two.

vangald · October 2012

valas625 wrote: »

I like this idea, but I see it being hard to implement in game. For one, you KNOW a rich troll will eventually start taking out hits on everyone. In which case either you will be screwed into no business because you've got too many hits, and not enough time in between (assuming there's a time limit, otherwise you could put out an everlasting mark) OR you could manage to pull it off, but no one would want to play because every time you go to do a dungeon or anything, you get ganked. There's also the issue of you being hired for a hit, but the person you're supposed to kill doesn't log onto that toon for a while, knowing there's a hit out on them. So they just wait till it expires, and you're screwed everytime. Or they could simply not play at the same time of day as you. I see way too many problems with this idea for it to work, but it just sounds fantastic at the same time. Also, if they managed to do this, I'd hope Cryptic does other player relevant missions/guilds for each of the classes. Dunno how it'd work for player-to-player effectiveness, but I think it'd be a great add-in idea for later on. Thieves guild will always be my favorite though. Every city needs a good pasha or two.

Thank you for the feedback.

Next game I am gonna tackle is:

Delve Deeper

Description:

Take command of five Dwarf adventurers as they dive into long-abandoned mines to search for incredible wealth, lost treasures, dangerous monsters and bragging rights at the drinking hall. Be wary though, up to four teams set forth at once, and your greatest obstacle may be a fellow Dwarf with a different colored hat!

Delve Deeper is a Adventure/Strategy game which pits you against monsters as you and up to three rival teams build an ever-changing dungeon map and compete to pilfer its loot as quickly as possible.
Game Features:

Endlessly re-playable, fast and furious dungeon adventure meets devious tile-placement puzzler to generate a unique experience each time.
Up to four players per map, each with a fully customized team of Dwarfs, commanded by your best friends or your hated nemesis, the Rival Dwarf AI.
Gorgeous 2D pixel art graphics, fully animated characters, critters and combat.
Quirky humor, with 100 uniquely named Relics to collect, dozens of themed rival dwarf teams, and the ever-present King of Dwarfs commending your success, lambasting your failure, and awarding you with snarky titles at the end of each match.

Basically this would work in D&D terms as multiple adventurer parties in the same dungeon try and leave with the most loot. An alternative would be to have an item they are both going after and only one group can leave with said item. The interesting things that tend to happen in this scenario is people have to determine when it is worth attacking your enemies or playing nice and maybe use them as a way to reduce the struggles your party has to face as you all go deeper into the dungeon. Now because that game is turn based and Neverwinter is real time it would probably be a good idea for dungeons built for this scenario to implement puzzles or prerequisites for progression into deeper areas in the dungeon. Also random items further make things interesting since you can wind up with cursed items or valuable items that can assist you in your task. The only thing that could make this better is if there was a way for players to build the dungeon as they go. So if the other team is further along you can determine what paths open for them and the game generates the obstacles at random.

Using features from that game in this game

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