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Grab/push/trip
deadarmoured87
Member Posts: 65
In some other action MMOs like Vindictus and Core Blaze, I have seen that the player character has the ability to grab the enemy and throw them away/perform a grapple attack.
In Neverwinter, seeing as it is a D&D game, what do you think the chances are of something similar?
Will I be able to push an enemy off a ledge to their doom?
Will I be able to grab an enemy so he cannot move?
Will I be able to trip an enemy and sit on his face?
Will any abilities like these be available in the game?
Aside from trip (which I would bet is an attack), I'm guessing not.
In Neverwinter, seeing as it is a D&D game, what do you think the chances are of something similar?
Will I be able to push an enemy off a ledge to their doom?
Will I be able to grab an enemy so he cannot move?
Will I be able to trip an enemy and sit on his face?
Will any abilities like these be available in the game?
Aside from trip (which I would bet is an attack), I'm guessing not.
Post edited by deadarmoured87 on
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from the game vids we've seen so far, it looks like there is a wizard spec that specializes in this - it's even reffered to as a control wizard - check out the Athene interview. but most classes should have some kind of CC ability.
ussualy these abilites effects only last a few seconds, and in the case of player characters there is ussualy a counter ability to break such stuns/holds.
i used to have a lot of fun back in WAR on my blackguard punting players to their doom off cliffs/bridges or into pools of lava. good times.
Although, it could add some flavor and possible roleplaying elements though if they were to implement these abilities and do it right. Also, trip seems like it would be the most likely candidate to make it in the game out of the three abilities you listed.
P.S. CC actually stands for Crowd Control.
ussualy, such moves dont come with a handy cliff, it's up to the player to find one.
taking examples from another MMO (SWTOR) that i recently stopped playing, i shall provide you with examples:
my sith warrior had an ability to force choke a target. channeled, ticked damage every second, held the target immobile, if i moved it broke, if i used another ability it broke. but other players could still beat upon the helpless victim. or if there was an environmental area that caused damage and i could get the target into that area, i could hold them there till they died (or the channel ended).
i did exactly that many times on my sith assassin that had a short ranged aoe knockback. by leading melee NPCs to cliff edges, or utilising LoS to the same effect on ranged NPCs i could kill greater numbers or more powerfull enemies more easilly. the trade off was i didnt have their corpses in front of me to rifle through their pockets and loot afterwards.
really, the only area of a game where these abilities become trully game breaking is in pvp. players like to have a chance to fight back, they dont like to die instantly to a single kick over a cliff edge. (even if it was their own fault for standing on the edge of a cliff).
most games add an element of diminishing returns on PvP CC so that players dont spend an entire fight stunned while being pricked to death by an elderly woman with a sewing needle of piercing +3.
which is kind of silly, since many CC abilities are single target, where to control a crowd requires aoe. hence my prefference for Combat Control.
However, I'm thinking of it more as an all purpose utility on a cooldown.
In 4E I played a brawler who could hold an enemy in my hand, trip them up and pin them down on the ground while I slammed my axe into their face.
I think it'd be more easily explained if I give some examples:
In Vindictus (another action MMO), you can grab an enemy with the push of a button, drag them around and perform context sensitive grab attacks (slam in to wall, kick of ledge, throw at other enemies etc).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ig68_SCmJp4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-KxB91-lbg&feature=related
I think it could work (though toned down/a little less bombastic to fit in with the context of the rest of the game).
All of the individual CC types that could result from this are likely already in the game, or have been used to good effect in other comparable games:
-knock-back
-trip
-hold
-drag/pull
I think at first thought it's a little "pie in the sky", but it's been proven to work before.
Of course, if it were to be used in PVP (at all- it isn't in Vindictus) it would have diminishing returns and abilities/trinkets would exist to free yourself from CC.
Good responses! It's always good to see multiple aspects to an issue. I see the logic behind your combat control reasoning as well. Another way around the feeling of helplessness in pvp that comes from CC could also be stats on gear that reduce the effect. Such as tenacity in League of Legends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZG1F5nce7k
(though watch any C9 combo video, and you'll likely see lots of grabbing and/or juggling)
However I greatly understand that in same cases it can seem greatly unfair or seem unbalanced. That's why d&d is awesome enough to have rolls. Couldn't we balance this out with rolls? Like...a grab shouldn't allways be successfull if it's on target. What about strength and dexterity checks? If someone is stronger or makes a stronger check he should be able to "break" the grab. Someone agile enough , if he makes a sucessfull check should be able to evade the grab etc..
And since i brought that up, will NWO have roll checks at all?
It's not a make or break feature, but it's always nice to have.
As much as some people want a transition from DnD rulesets into the game, for an MMO that doesn't always work and it completely depends in this situation on how they want PvP (or PvE for that matter) to work. So where you might want "Save" rolls, this will depend how the stats work out, whether your attack actually hits, or whether the "victim" who is attacked by a push/pull/grab attack has an ability to break it (eg. breaking 'snare/root/stun' attacks is quite common in MMOs).
I doubt there will be any Roll checks, at least none that you see/perform manually as what would be the point? In DnD if you roll a high enough attack then it hits and you do damage, in an MMO the game uses its own algorithms off your stats v's the mobs/enemy players stats automatically as to whether you Hit/Miss or they Dodge the attack. So are there "rolls"? Unlikely, but there will be similarly random mechanics as to whether an attack hits/misses.
I do always like to see a "/roll" command that gives a random d100 roll in party chat, etc. as it's a nice tool for RPers to determine random actions.
If the player (after grabbing someone) had a 3 second window to perform the attack before opponent breaks free:
-throw- A moveable target circle could appear on the ground (much like a ranged aoe spell), to direct in which direction the opponent should be thrown (or simply your direction as you hold them would determine the flight path). Could be used to launch enemies over ledges, or backwards into your own party to be picked off.
-trip/stun- Tripped down on the ground for a couple seconds, grants combat advantage.
-slam- Situational (like in the videos above) or AOE damage attack.
I think if it had a healthy cooldown say 10, 20 seconds (maybe more), as a single target CC ability it's not even OP (as you are still vulnerable yourself, and the enemy you've grabbed is still able to attack).
I was thinking maybe it could be a fighter cc ability in a certain build:
Guardian-Tank-sword and board
Striker-Dps-2h/dual wield
Brawler-Control/debuff warrior-1h and gauntlet
You can do it like in nwn it's simple enough. The pc rolls for you and for the enemy, applies the bonuses and it does it instantly, within a second.