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Get Rid of Damage Board
nymeria
Member Posts: 14 Arc User
While it is great to know what kind of damage you are doing, the damage board also creates an environment that is pretty much unfavorable for many reasons. The game is intended to be played as a team effort, however, I found that alls it has created is competition between dps and who is gonna be at the top. Team mechanics seem to be a thing of the past in most cases lately. Alot of times I see dps rushing in just to get that hit before other dps, it becomes a race. This makes it hard for support classes when the tank has to fight for aggro and the healer has to try to keep dps alive because dps wants to be first. The game is already struggling for tanks, and this makes it even more likely that people will chose other roles to play. Tanks and healers are the mainstay of this game. This is not how this game was intended to be played.
The damage board also causes certain classes to be overlooked for run because people view them as substandard to other classes, making it almost impossible to advance. Or simply, to just be kicked after spending hours in a dungeon just because your not at the top. When 80% of the player base are wizards that have been really buffed up, other classes cannot keep up. I run an arbiter, I love the class and love playing the class, but getting runs is just impossible. They just cannot keep up with the aoe classes. And because aoe classes can show a much higher damage score, arbiters seem to be a carry in most instances instead of the team thinking logically that arbiters do the majority of there damage on single targets or boss fights. But to a good majority of the players, the arbiter is a substandard classes that doesn't do enough damage. Well of course a mob of 10-15 enemies that a wizard can scoop up with arcane singularity and kill them all is going to be higher than an arbiter. I know my class, I know, and have mastered the rotation over the last 8 yrs. I have changed gear, upgraded different enchants, played around with stats, etc but because there is such a difference in score on the damage board, get kicked before finishing, because they are the weak link.
There are many reasons that the damage should be fixed but these are the two that I have found affect gameplay. This game should be played and structured around teamwork, not how much damage you can do. My suggestion would be to show players their individual score and let them decide if they want to share it with the team. I know I will probably take a lot of slack for this recommendation, and I do believe it will mainly be from the players that strive to be at the top. If the damage board was altered, It is in my opinion that the game would go back to being played as intended, and not a race to be the best and at the top of the leaderboard. I do hope my suggestion will be considered to make Neverwinter enjoyable to play again, especially for the classes that struggle to keep up with highly powered classes and to bring back teamwork. Any help with this matter would be greatly appreciated.
The damage board also causes certain classes to be overlooked for run because people view them as substandard to other classes, making it almost impossible to advance. Or simply, to just be kicked after spending hours in a dungeon just because your not at the top. When 80% of the player base are wizards that have been really buffed up, other classes cannot keep up. I run an arbiter, I love the class and love playing the class, but getting runs is just impossible. They just cannot keep up with the aoe classes. And because aoe classes can show a much higher damage score, arbiters seem to be a carry in most instances instead of the team thinking logically that arbiters do the majority of there damage on single targets or boss fights. But to a good majority of the players, the arbiter is a substandard classes that doesn't do enough damage. Well of course a mob of 10-15 enemies that a wizard can scoop up with arcane singularity and kill them all is going to be higher than an arbiter. I know my class, I know, and have mastered the rotation over the last 8 yrs. I have changed gear, upgraded different enchants, played around with stats, etc but because there is such a difference in score on the damage board, get kicked before finishing, because they are the weak link.
There are many reasons that the damage should be fixed but these are the two that I have found affect gameplay. This game should be played and structured around teamwork, not how much damage you can do. My suggestion would be to show players their individual score and let them decide if they want to share it with the team. I know I will probably take a lot of slack for this recommendation, and I do believe it will mainly be from the players that strive to be at the top. If the damage board was altered, It is in my opinion that the game would go back to being played as intended, and not a race to be the best and at the top of the leaderboard. I do hope my suggestion will be considered to make Neverwinter enjoyable to play again, especially for the classes that struggle to keep up with highly powered classes and to bring back teamwork. Any help with this matter would be greatly appreciated.
2
Comments
The scoreboard itself is not the problem, though how it is interpreted is what often enough brings about negativity. If the scoreboard showed overall damage and damage during boss fights separately (whether separated by each boss or total) it will provide a more complete picture as to what is going on because arguably damage during boss fights is what matters compared to the enemies encountered in between.
DPS are more plentiful than support classes so sometimes you have to allow the situations when they just run ahead to be possible teachable moments. When the DPS run ahead, sometimes just let them go at it without healing/tanking for them which will incline them to repeatedly spend healing resources. They will keep burning resources, change what they are doing or communicate with the group. If they communicate asking what’s going on respond with that they are putting unnecessary stress on the support classes and if they keep it up they may be kicked from the group. Some content it matters less when the DPS run ahead though DPS players should know that if they run ahead, survival is their own responsibility. To try and discourage bad behavior from DPS chasers, if they go down, sometimes let them stay down for a while before reviving or simply let them die (outside of boss fights of course lol).
As far as classes that can be support or DPS (especially Clerics), arguably their DPS should not simply rival that of pure DPS classes (especially in group content), that is not fair, nor balanced. Arguably groups are not simply going to pick a Cleric over a pure DPS class.
The scoreboard does have has positive uses though such as comparing ones DPS to that of other classes/the same class or humbling DPS chasers that think being top DPS with the most deaths/downs and taking the most damage is cool. It may also incline DPS chasers to buy ZEN to get character upgrades which financially supports the game.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
> The use and “value” of the scoreboard depends on the player. As long as the run goes smooth for the most part the scoreboard should matter less right?
>
> The scoreboard itself is not the problem, though how it is interpreted is what often enough brings about negativity. If the scoreboard showed overall damage and damage during boss fights separately (whether separated by each boss or total) it will provide a more complete picture as to what is going on because arguably damage during boss fights is what matters compared to the enemies encountered in between.
>
> DPS are more plentiful than support classes so sometimes you have to allow the situations when they just run ahead to be possible teachable moments. When the DPS run ahead, sometimes just let them go at it without healing/tanking for them which will incline them to repeatedly spend healing resources. They will keep burning resources, change what they are doing or communicate with the group. If they communicate asking what’s going on respond with that they are putting unnecessary stress on the support classes and if they keep it up they may be kicked from the group. Some content it matters less when the DPS run ahead though DPS players should know that if they run ahead, survival is their own responsibility. To try and discourage bad behavior from DPS chasers, if they go down, sometimes let them stay down for a while before reviving or simply let them die (outside of boss fights of course lol).
>
> As far as classes that can be support or DPS (especially Clerics), arguably their DPS should not simply rival that of pure DPS classes (especially in group content), that is not fair, nor balanced. Arguably groups are not simply going to pick a Cleric over a pure DPS class.
>
> The scoreboard does have has positive uses though such as comparing ones DPS to that of other classes/the same class or humbling DPS chasers that think being top DPS with the most deaths/downs and taking the most damage is cool. It may also incline DPS chasers to buy ZEN to get character upgrades which financially supports the game.
The game was intended to be played based on teamwork, not competition. If I wanted to play a game created around competition, I would play a game that requires a score to be the best. Neverwinter unfortunately, in many ways, has become just that, a competition. People have been leaving the game in drives because of the way the game has changed. I understand a game changing so that it's viable against other games in its class, but some changes can always be altered to better the game as well. I'm not saying I don't appreciate seeing what kind of damage I do, but sharing with the group has its down falls, for many reasons. Players, especially the arbiter is often overlooked for game play, or as I mentioned, kicked from dungeons after spending time and resources to complete. The DPS path of the cleric in no way teaches some how to use there devour cleric. A DPS class should be no different from any other class. If it is made as a DPS, it should play like a DPS regardless of the class. In my opinion, I have tried other dps classes and honestly, I prefer the arbiter because of the skill required to play it. So tell me, what is the reason you believe that arbiters shouldn't be viable as a DPS? Just because they are not a straight DPS class doesn't seem to be a a good answer. The warlock also has a healing path, but they still do damage. The barb and fighter also has a support/tank side, yet they still do damage, so the reason you mentioned doesn't really make any sense. You also have issues with straight DPS classes like the wisperknife rogue or the warden ranger that is subpar to the other paths. Again, it makes no sense. They added second paths so that there were more options for people to choose from, but yet don't follow through with it being consistent across the board for DPS. Maybe the devs should just eliminate the non viable paths and focus on the DPS they prefer to maintain.
> > @trinity706#8838 said:
> > The use and “value” of the scoreboard depends on the player. As long as the run goes smooth for the most part the scoreboard should matter less right?
> >
> > The scoreboard itself is not the problem, though how it is interpreted is what often enough brings about negativity. If the scoreboard showed overall damage and damage during boss fights separately (whether separated by each boss or total) it will provide a more complete picture as to what is going on because arguably damage during boss fights is what matters compared to the enemies encountered in between.
> >
> > DPS are more plentiful than support classes so sometimes you have to allow the situations when they just run ahead to be possible teachable moments. When the DPS run ahead, sometimes just let them go at it without healing/tanking for them which will incline them to repeatedly spend healing resources. They will keep burning resources, change what they are doing or communicate with the group. If they communicate asking what’s going on respond with that they are putting unnecessary stress on the support classes and if they keep it up they may be kicked from the group. Some content it matters less when the DPS run ahead though DPS players should know that if they run ahead, survival is their own responsibility. To try and discourage bad behavior from DPS chasers, if they go down, sometimes let them stay down for a while before reviving or simply let them die (outside of boss fights of course lol).
> >
> > As far as classes that can be support or DPS (especially Clerics), arguably their DPS should not simply rival that of pure DPS classes (especially in group content), that is not fair, nor balanced. Arguably groups are not simply going to pick a Cleric over a pure DPS class.
> >
> > The scoreboard does have has positive uses though such as comparing ones DPS to that of other classes/the same class or humbling DPS chasers that think being top DPS with the most deaths/downs and taking the most damage is cool. It may also incline DPS chasers to buy ZEN to get character upgrades which financially supports the game.
>
> The game was intended to be played based on teamwork, not competition. If I wanted to play a game created around competition, I would play a game that requires a score to be the best. Neverwinter unfortunately, in many ways, has become just that, a competition. People have been leaving the game in drives because of the way the game has changed. I understand a game changing so that it's viable against other games in its class, but some changes can always be altered to better the game as well. I'm not saying I don't appreciate seeing what kind of damage I do, but sharing with the group has its down falls, for many reasons. Players, especially the arbiter is often overlooked for game play, or as I mentioned, kicked from dungeons after spending time and resources to complete. The DPS path of the cleric in no way teaches some how to use there devour cleric. A DPS class should be no different from any other class. If it is made as a DPS, it should play like a DPS regardless of the class. In my opinion, I have tried other dps classes and honestly, I prefer the arbiter because of the skill required to play it. So tell me, what is the reason you believe that arbiters shouldn't be viable as a DPS? Just because they are not a straight DPS class doesn't seem to be a a good answer. The warlock also has a healing path, but they still do damage. You also have the bard that is healing and DPS, and they still do quite a bit of damage. The barb and fighter also has a support/tank side, yet they still do damage, so the reason you mentioned doesn't really make any sense. You also have issues with straight DPS classes like the wisperknife rogue or the warden ranger that is subpar to the other paths. Again, it makes no sense. They added second paths so that there were more options for people to choose from, but yet don't follow through with it being consistent across the board for DPS. Maybe the devs should just eliminate the non viable paths and focus on the DPS they prefer to maintain.
There used to be three paragon paths per class... Content is not consistent across the board either. Different content tends to favor different classes/paragon paths/group composition. A number of things are situational.
Barbarians tanks arguably aren't as effective as Paladins/Fighters.
Warlock heals arguably are not as effective as that of Clerics.
Single target damage is not as effective as AoE damage in regard to higher enemy density fights and vice versa.
Etc., etc. Yes there is some crossover between "multi-role" classes though essentially each class has something that they do better than other classes, it's called balance and standardizing DPS across all classes would cause imbalance.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
What I like does not mean others would have the same view and I don't expect that neither. This is not a new subject. This is a very old subject. This has been argued for a very long time (in PC anyway).
Some people like it and some people hate it. Some people used that as the benchmark. In the past, a guild mate said that out loud not to revive another guild mate because the down one was leading paingiver in that run. Yes, that was a fun run. We were close and everybody was joking around. However, that also illustrated how people viewed. I am not saying it is positive or negative since everyone was having fun. Before there was paingiver board in the old days, everyone had their role at that time. DC healed, CW controlled, GF took aggro, OP protected (when bubble was 'too' useful), GWF deal with boss, others deal with adds. That kind of cooperation has gone for a very long time. Will that come back? I doubt it. The game has changed a lot.
DC->C, CW->W, GF->F, GWF->Barbarian, OP->P.
Is paingiver board the fault? I doubt it. It is people who were different from the old days. Getting rid of the paingiver board will not fix it when people and people's attitude are changed.
In PC, when there was no paingiver board back then, I still got the up-to-date blow by blow "score" update from party member through voice because they were running ACT to monitor live.
Personally don't know why you were kicked and it was unfortunate that that happened. An at ilvl group probably wouldn't be able to consistently complete group content which is arguably why sometimes the system groups one or more lower ilvl players with higher ilvl ones...
Getting rid of the scoreboard may do something positive on console because players have no way to track damage like players on PC can though on PC players would still be able to "discriminate" if they wanted because they can still track damage without it...
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
The other boards/pages are not for 'damage' and are for support which is very useful and usually no 'competition' in those data.
Personally would rather Cryptic add an additional page(s) to the scoreboard than go through and try re-balancing DPS between classes lol.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
It is there to motivate (manipulate?) certain competitive personalities to spend money to "get good". I am not saying this is bad or good but it is a common tactic used by game companies to get people to spend. They are here to make a profit and tune the game as to best arrive at that goal.
> There is no way the damage board is going anywhere. It serves a very specific financial function in the game.
>
> It is there to motivate (manipulate?) certain competitive personalities to spend money to "get good". I am not saying this is bad or good but it is a common tactic used by game companies to get people to spend. They are here to make a profit and tune the game as to best arrive at that goal.
You can only "get good' in this game with the gear, weapons, enchants, comps, mounts, etc that are available in the given mod. When cryptic decidew that one class should be better than any other, there is disparity, it doesn't matter what a char does, if they are not on cryptics "to be best list", than it doesn't make sense to use the damage board as a way to get people to " spend". And if it is a grab to get people to create a char just because they are high damage dealers, that's not for me. I tried jumping on the wizard and rogue bandwagon, and i am just not in to either of them much. What it does do is cause a player to get board of the game since advancement, sometimes, does not seem possible. So they move on to something else which is counterproductive to the game making money. I am more motivated to play the char I like to play and am willing to spend money to get what is needed, however, not when it is the way it is for the class. I'm not saying to completely obliterate the board, but to fix it so that one, DPS are not always competing for the top spot instead of playing the game as it should be intended to play. I also play a healer and almost all runs, dps rush in to get the first hit. Sometimes I let them die, sometimes I don't, but it is frustrating to say the least. The second is that for certain classes, such as the arbiter, damage is comparably lower since they are mainly single target as opposed to aoe classes that ultimately show much more damage on the board since they quantify much more damage in aoe hits. This players who show lower damage in a bad spot since they are first to get removed from the group no matter how well they know mechs, have survivability, have the stats, etc. Groups base their decision on score and score only. For instance, as an arbiter, I do less damage than an AOE player but I hit bosses/single targets harder than some AOE classes. Unfortunately, this does not stack up in a dungeon because in between boss fights there are groups of mobs that the AOE classes can rack up damage. So generally at final boss, the class looks like a carry when in reality, they are doing their part, or at least in my case I am doing the rotation as intended with out a problem. I just think there is improvement that can be made as the damage board does seem to have a mixed review amongst players.
Again I am not saying it's good or bad, but it's something that is here to stay. I only use them as a gage for myself to test builds and equipment and stuff like that. But I do agree with you they are certainly not a good gauge (in general) on how good a player is or isn't. And if I am running with groups who think so I don't run with them any more.
So in that case, take away single target damage from the wizard and allow the arbiter to do what they are best at, single target damage. Of course the balance would have to be consistent between what an AOE DPS can do and what a single target dose can do. So for instance, allow the AOE classes to do damage for mobs, but allow the arbiter to hit harder on bosses/single target so at least they have a place in this game. It's ridiculous that the devs cannot figure out how to incorporate all the classes that they developed to have a place in this game. Like I said, 80+% of the player base in the last 2 1/2 mods are wizards. Maybe they should just call it Wizards of Neverwinter instead of dungeons and dragons if they want to play up one class over all others. It's getting to the point where there is no diversity in the game, what fun is that?! It's either you create a class you don't care to play just because they are currently op, or struggle to get into any content because of the class you enjoy playing. Honestly, from what I hear, the game is on thin ice as far as staying a float and remaining relevant in the gaming market. To do that, they really should pay attention to the people who have supported the game over many years and "Make Neverwinter Great Again"
For example, wizard was weak for a long time. Finally, they 'improved' it. Well, others were not happy. If they choose to nerf wizard in the future again, well, wizard players will not be happy.