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Arcane Control Wizard's, need more control & bit more DPS.
strathkin
Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
You'll quickly be overwhelmed by Mob's, and Freezing does little to nothing when 1-2 bounty's target in the fight; especially if a side mob gets pulled as well. As Arcane your lucky to only freeze 1 target on Icy Terran most of the time with Ray of Frost. You'll easy spend 95% of your time dodging, and that's even with close to 70% control as well.
Still find both very similar in fact:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265037/wizard-very-low-dps-in-dungeon-advanced-dungeon-epic-trial-scaled-and-nerfed-badly-in-the-game
or
https://account.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1262889/wizard-changes
Here's hoping... I still find I'm playing Thaumaturge more often, and I disbelieve those that say it's hurting more than Arcane. I still find Thaumaturge is faster to defeat Boss / Mini Boss at least (most) of the time in fact.
Still both Wizard's clearly need some LOVE contrast to other DPS Classes, and both need similar buff's to magnitude, that aren't that far apart!
Still find both very similar in fact:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265037/wizard-very-low-dps-in-dungeon-advanced-dungeon-epic-trial-scaled-and-nerfed-badly-in-the-game
or
https://account.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1262889/wizard-changes
Here's hoping... I still find I'm playing Thaumaturge more often, and I disbelieve those that say it's hurting more than Arcane. I still find Thaumaturge is faster to defeat Boss / Mini Boss at least (most) of the time in fact.
Still both Wizard's clearly need some LOVE contrast to other DPS Classes, and both need similar buff's to magnitude, that aren't that far apart!
Post edited by strathkin on
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▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
Still Wizard's in general are lack-luster contrast to other classes often: My Reply:
Background: Revisions after more runs June 10th-15th, I'd recommend as starting point... ...'they claimed' Thaumaturge is hurting more, yet I disagree. I'll show why later.
Arcane Wizard
♦ Steel Time stuns to last +15% longer, and be +7 Magnitude though!
♦ Lightning Bolt previously nerfed too harshly, should see +10 Magnitude boost, counterpart Fanning the Flame.
♦ Arcane Tempest could be buffed by +7 Magnitude as well, as small node to Arcanists.
╘ is same as Conduit of Ice for Thaumaturge!
♦ Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't need a Magnitude buff,
╘ yet could reduce outgoing damage from -10% to -12.5% at least.
╘ both the debuff needs to CONFIRM it's 10s, same with it's Mastery benefit -- see Bugs*
Only Thaumaturge feat's add's more Chill stacks while having 3 more Ice (Chill) Encounters, so Arcane Feat's need a bit more work; if not they need to further increase Magnitude Damage. Likely suggestion is Orb of Imposition, yet it's available to both; so wiser to boost Storm Spell.
Note: Someone also reported Ray of Enfeeblement only last 5 seconds, not 10 seconds for Mastery effect; I'd want them to check the debuff last 10s as it should; both are likely only 5 seconds!
Arcane should start with +24 Magnitude Damage which is small but adds up, yet both Wizard's don't compare to Rogue, Warlock, or other DPS Classes! Still these are small suggestions to test, and think Arcane powers may be buffed further especially if they don't improve Class powers or Feats!
Thauma is still leader in DPS, and suspect that will remain:
https://www.mmorpgtips.com/neverwinter-wizard-arcanist-build/
https://www.mmorpgtips.com/neverwinter-wizard-thaumaturge-build/
Thaumaturge Wizard
♦ Fanning the Flame could also be boosted by +12.5 as starting point, up from 100 Magnitude.
╘ Fireball is recommended in Mastery, while more powerful -- it doesn't render FX -- see Bugs*
♦ Conduit of Ice should receive buff of 7.5 Magnitude as well.
♦ Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't need a Magnitude buff,
╘ yet could reduce outgoing damage from -10% to -12.5% at least.
╘ both the debuff needs to CONFIRM it's 10s, same with it's Mastery benefit -- see Bugs*
Thaumaturge be overall of +20 Magnitude Damage these be good starting points only!
I still find Thaumaturge not nearly as bad as everyone claims, I know Arcane since M16 has always been behind Thauma Wizard's in DPS. So in this test I used ALL the recommended Arcane abilities & Class powers for Arcane per the Guide yet omitted Repel in both cases so Chilling Presence was used as class power in both cases. For Thaumaturge however, I used the less popular Fanning the Flame rather than Fireball in Mastery, and it still beat Arcane time by 2 minutes and several seconds! I might have further increased the victory to 3-4 minutes faster had I used Crit Conflagration & Swath of Destruction together; that doesn't include Fireball in Mastery! Everything was same gear, potions, enchantments, etc...
Note: Both -Young Green Dragons - above shown in image above.
3rd run, I gave Thauma a more ideal Class power: kept Chilling Presence, & Critical Conflagration.
╘ That reduced time to 12m 52s. Thauma best DPS is Critical Conflagration & Swath of Destruction.
Had I used Fireball I'd likely shave another 2 minutes, or far more off the time; especially with it's 2 best class powers too!
――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――
https://twitch.tv/videos/1497519296
Still the one BUG that sticks out is with Thaumaturge Fireball it never renders the Fireball, you only can screenshot it just as it arrives at the target if you extremely lucky, so most only see the Flames that burn the enemy afterward by the vast majority, not the Fireball itself!
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https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265340/known-wizard-bugs
Known BUGS I'm aware of:
So Fireball FX has been broken a LONG time, and needs rework to make it more visible for sure!
There's 2 problematic BUGs, and now one introduced since M23 dropped here:
https://account.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265327/thaumaturge-missing-fx-for-fireball-it-seems
&
https://account.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265342/ray-of-enfeeblement-duration-bug
―
https://account.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265378/wizard-ice-knife-not-shown-since-m23-june-14th-in-dragon-hunts
Only Thaumaturge feat's add's more Chill stacks, so Arcane Feat's need a bit more work; if not they need to further increase Magnitude Damage.
https://twitch.tv/videos/1497519296
Still the point is wizard's of both classes are a bit lack-luster in Damage, contrast to other classes.
Though in a recent stream this last week they claimed Thauma was worse off, yet as I revised above in a single apples to apples comparison it shows the opposite. Since M16 Arcane has been lack-luster contrast to Thaumaturge, and seems it still is!
Though I've noticed Fireball on Thaumaturge doesn't seem to render the FX at all, only the burn that lingers afterward... ...seems today many in Alliance including our Helm Guild Leader said, it's been broken awhile for many people. It does the damage it supposed to, just never see the Fireball FX being cast or thrown; only the burn caused by it afterward--as shown above.
╘ I'd recommend as starting point... ...'they claimed' Thaumaturge is hurting more, yet I disagree. Here my test criteria.
I used Young Green Dragon, as it's single player, and if you don't get them you can requeue without penalty. Then on both classes I used similar powers, as Identified (above), and both classes are using same Enchantments, Artifacts, Gear, Weapons, Companions/buffs, Mounts/insignia, etc... "always applied to both loadouts" in fact, or it's not fair.
Arcane Wizard
♦ Steel Time stuns to last +15% longer, and be +5 Magnitude though!
♦ Lightning Bolt previously nerfed too harshly, should see +7 Magnitude boost, counterpart Fanning the Flame.
♦ Arcane Tempest could be buffed by +7 Magnitude as well, as small node to Arcanists.
╘ is same as Conduit of Ice for Thaumaturge!
♦ Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't need a Magnitude buff,
╘ both the debuff needs to CONFIRM it's 10s, same with it's Mastery benefit -- see Bugs*
♦ Disintegrate should be given (slight) buff of +5 Magnitude.
Only Thaumaturge feat's add's more Chill stacks while having 3 more Ice (Chill) Encounters, so Arcane Feat's need a bit more work to enhance Control! Otherwise a slighly higher magnitude buff above.
Note: Someone also reported Ray of Enfeeblement only last 5 seconds, not 10 seconds for Mastery effect; I'd want them to check debuff last 10s as it should; both are likely only 5 seconds!
Arcane should start with +24 Magnitude Damage or 50% that, and work up. Which is small but adds up, especially as Disintegrate has shorter cooldown! Yet both Wizard's don't compare to Rogue, Warlock, or other DPS Classes! Still these are small suggestions to test, and think Arcane powers may be buffed further especially if they don't improve Class powers slightly!
Thauma is still leader in DPS, and suspect that will remain:
https://www.mmorpgtips.com/neverwinter-wizard-arcanist-build/
https://www.mmorpgtips.com/neverwinter-wizard-thaumaturge-build/
╘ (above) I showed a revised arcanist build feat's for single targer, first down, remaining 4 all UP.
Thaumaturge Wizard
♦ Fanning the Flame could also be boosted by +10 as starting point
╘ Fireball is recommended in Mastery, while more powerful -- it doesn't render FX -- see Bugs*
♦ Conduit of Ice should receive buff of +7 Magnitude as well.
♦ Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't need a Magnitude buff,
╘ both the debuff needs to CONFIRM it's 10s, same with it's Mastery benefit -- see Bugs*
♦ Fireball should be given (slight) buff of +5.5 Magnitude.
Thaumaturge be overall of +22.5 Magnitude Damage and start with 50%, and also work up.
As these be good starting points only!
Note: Both -Young Green Dragons - shown below; using 2 Single Target, 2 AoE - Hybrid more typical.
╘ Thaumaturge has more control cause of Feats, and a wider Gap exists using AoE over Arcane.
This time, I gave Thaumaturge it's two best class powers Critical Conflagration & Swath of Destruction; yet used Fireball (AoE) rather than Repel. Had I used Repel instead of Fireball the time even be reduced down to 8m 1s as shown in another thread. Both loadouts used same gear, and did not use BoA to further influence the base wizard classes in both paragons.
╘ still this is all Single Target, which shows the gap is narrowed.
Then Thauma with Enfeeblement in Mastery like most, with Critical Conflagration, Swath of Destruction
♦ Ray of Enfeeblement Mastery, Repel, Icy Rays, Chill Strike.
――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――
https://twitch.tv/videos/1497519296
Still the one BUG that sticks out is with Thaumaturge Fireball it never renders the Fireball, you only can screenshot it just as it arrives at the target if you extremely lucky, so most only see the Flames that burn the enemy afterward by the vast majority, not the Fireball itself!
――――――――――――――――――――
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265340/known-wizard-bugs
Known BUGS I'm aware of:
So Fireball FX has been broken a LONG time, and needs rework to make it more visible for sure!
There's 2 problematic BUGs, and now one introduced since M23 dropped here:
https://account.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265327/thaumaturge-missing-fx-for-fireball-it-seems
&
https://account.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265342/ray-of-enfeeblement-duration-bug
―
https://account.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265378/wizard-ice-knife-not-shown-since-m23-june-14th-in-dragon-hunts
Arcane Single Target - Chilling Presence & Storm Spell
♦ Ray of Enfeeblement Mastery, Entangling Force, Disintegrate, Repel.
Thauma Single Target (with even 1 AoE) beat Arcane, Critical Conflagration, Swath of Destruction
♦ Ray of Enfeeblement Mastery, Fireball (to show difference in Mastery), Icy Rays, Chill Strike.
Then Thauma with Fireball in Mastery, Critical Conflagration, Swath of Destruction
♦ Fireball Mastery, Repel, Icy Rays, Chill Strike.
Then Thauma with Enfeeblement in Mastery like most, with Class of Critical Conflagration, Swath of Destruction.
♦ Ray of Enfeeblement Mastery, Repel, Icy Rays, Chill Strike.
Balance must be built around this. I personally don't want a repeat of mod 17 where everyone ran wizards xD
Note: I also tried 3 times a Green dragon, and my best time was 9m 00s, my worst was 9m 08s a bit longer. So I sure did improve my time by 51 seconds, yet still not as good as my Thaumaturge at 8m 01s. I do know the Arcane Wizard in Dragon Hunt with 3 of us did 37m, compared to my about 21m for my Thaumaturge. While her item level was 3k higher than mine, yet I also noted a 52k to 57k difference resulted in 57% improvement in times when I ran them. Still I can only report what I see mostly on mine, after making their changes.
Note: Update from July 2nd, using Arcane Empowerment 100% for Daily did later reduce this to 8m 50s. Previously my best time of 9m 00s was mixed between Ice Knife & Arcane Empowerment. It's still however 49s behind my Thaumaturge Loadout (shown above) is 8m 1s time again Young Green Dragon.
These are what I was previously using however earlier:
https://www.mmorpgtips.com/neverwinter-wizard-arcanist-build/
https://www.mmorpgtips.com/neverwinter-wizard-thaumaturge-build/
Someone later clarified when you change them to single target, yet I changed them identically as they said and yes it and sure it improve my Arcane time. Yet still I see Thaumaturge in the lead!
For Arcane the Guide says:
For Thauma the Guide says:
Here's what 2 Arcane Wizard's suggested I do for Single Target, with variation from a HDPS Wizard too.
So the feats shown by Thaumaturge, are reversed here for Arcanist single target. I was told to try First feat DOWN as Arcane already shows, yet all the others are on the TOP!
So to me I still see Thauma on TOP of the Leader Board! But I have to wait till tomorrow to review, it's possible they are using better companions all mine are Legendary, not a single Mythic. As I've been gone for 2+ years, and those could also make noticeable difference. Still I can't compare her to my character she also has BoA, I can only mostly report what I found.
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Update 07/04: My guess is only that Thaumaturge has higher Critical Strike Feat, where Arcanist does not so using Chilling Presence & Storm Spell. Thaumaturge as I said uses Critical Conflagration, Swath of Destruction it's two best.
For Arcane you could use Eye of the Storm which gives 10% severity for Arcane, yet it's only active 5 seconds out of every 20--so this only translates to 2.5% on average.
Note: Still I find my Thaumaturge build out performs my Arcane even with the revisions above!
Still I've seen many Rogue (more) than others easily out perform a Wizard (of either paragon) despite many want Rogue to be buffed further. Rogue mostly get's it's vast superiority from Band of Air (which mostly benefits Rogues) almost exclusively; though it can benefit Warlocks as well.
Still I've seen almost every DPS class outperform Wizard's if they choose the right Gear; and everyone knows the buff's each class receive often changes every MOD. It's always this mass collection of older Gear you require to hold onto, and like most new Gear it's almost all situational--so you spend hundred of thousands of diamonds, for gear you can use in one Trial, or perhaps Dungeon depending on Campaign. The only rare exception is Ancient Dragon Armor, for everything prior to Underdark.
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NOTE:
The one thing that still honestly surprises me is that Mirage Weapons 800 Item-Level, still to this day not only outperform in scaled content. Yet someone said that Mirage Weapons is currently bugged, and is out performing even in non-scaled content too!