M27 Tank Update Feedback

bnortondev · October 2023

Please share your feedback on the general tank role updates in Module 27. Updated for our 10-10-23 Preview build.

Tank Threat Baseline Rework

We have reworked the threat multipliers for all tank paragons. Tank powers that do not have "Increased Threat" have had their threat generation roughly tripled. Powers that had "Increased Threat" generate about the same amount of threat.

Effects that increase your overall threat generation have been standardized. Class powers that increased your overall threat generation do so by +33%, with diminishing returns for each unique application. Items that increase threat do so by +6.6%, also with diminishing returns. At-Will powers that increase threat generation have shorter durations, while Encounter powers that increase threat generation generally have longer durations.

This will hopefully expand tank power choice and make it generally easier for newer tanks to play the class. It also makes Daily powers and healing more valuable for threat generation. We will monitor this change to insure we haven't created new issues and adjust threat values and mechanics as needed.

BARBARIAN

Frustrating Slash Feat
* Duration 10 -> 5

Leap Into Action Feat
* Duration 6 -> 10

FIGHTER

Staying Power Feat
* Threat bonus no longer limited to At-Wills
* Duration 5s -> 10s

Tide of Iron At-Will
* Magnitude 100 -> 120
* Duration 10s -> 5s

ITEMS

The following item powers have had their threat bonuses refactored:

* Divine Word
* Dashing Decoy - Diamond Artifact Set
* Teamwork Tactics - Northern Jewel Artifact Set

Block Priority Update

'Blocking', absorbing damage with stamina, now occurs before shields are consumed. This was previously the case only with the Paladin's Block power, but now applies to all Block's, Dig-In, Unstoppable, etc.

Crowd Control Immunity Update
* Various class powers that granted 'immunity to some crowd control' effects have been standardized to provide consistent immunities.
* 'CC Immunity' should now provide broader general protection against most knockdowns, knockbacks, stuns, slows, etc.
* This resolves issues where one power would provide immunity to a power, while a different power would not. Now both should provide immunity, or neither should.

Formatting Your Feedback and Bugs

For posting feedback and bugs, please follow the following format to ensure your feedback and bugs are seen clearly and processed in a timely manner, thank you!

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Bug: Mimics breakdancing when the fight starts makes them get stuck in floor.
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knowfear4 · October 2023

So you have specific changes for fighter and barbarian but no mention of paladins. I guess we aren't considered tanks which explains a lot.

wilbur626 · October 2023

knowfear4#5964 said:
So you have specific changes for fighter and barbarian but no mention of paladins. I guess we aren't considered tanks which explains a lot.

There is a separate thread for the paladin adjustments. As the Justicar has no class powers that increase overall threat generation, it would make no sense to include it in a list showcasing class powers that increase overall threat generation.

wilbur626 · October 2023

Please take a look at Fighter Vanguards capstones. There is currently no options for Vanguards, as one feat is far superior to the other

mamalion1234 · October 2023

Hello, i have something trouble me the last years. How comes the fighter tank is the only tank with tab mechanic without limitations? Lets see paladin tank divine champion :

Here we see some issues ; 1) use divinity to activate. 2) when is active it drains divinity so that means if i need my tab ability i need to have and divinity to cast it. 3) it has 5 sec cooldown so that means if i need to stop the divine champion for any reason for the next 5 sec i am very vunerable to any big attack. ok that was about paladin. 4) shift +tab (pallishade) appears to not have 360 degrees coverage( lf confirm).

Lets see sentinel tank now unstoppable:

1) you need to fill the rage meter to 50 percent to able to use. 2) while is active it drains rage overtime when rage reach to zero you lose the effect and you get it again when you start get again rage to 50 percent ( ofcourse during unstoppable no rage increase only decrease).

Lets see fighter vanguard dig in :

1) no cooldown you can spam dig in whenever you want. 2) + 15 percent awareness(ah yea and because dig in is a kind of block dont forget the 10 percent critical avoidance in top of that) and 3) seeing 1 that means every 10 sec
you can release dig in imidiatelly and retaliate to increase further your threat and note is an multiple enemies attack, then ofcourse you can go again dig in to block the rest of damage! 4) And ofcourse the effect of dig in doesnt end even if stamina is drop to 0.

I suggest the dig in to get some limitations to be at same line with sentinel's and paladin's tab ability.

update update : the next video i would like you to do the same mitigate all reds with your tab mechanic as sentinel or justicar without the help of your healer.

https://twitch.tv/videos/1949224402

dracul · October 2023

Fighter Vanguards use Knight's Valor to hijack the threat from other tanks in Trials and Skirmishes, using this dirty trick to exclude the other tank from the queue. That encounter power needs to be reworked, so it can't drain the threat from other tanks anymore. This is a huge unbalance in the game, of which cheaters exploit very much. And since the Devs are trying to balance everything, this is a priority improvement to the equilibrium of threat in the game !

tziemba · October 2023

bnortondev#5971 said:

This will hopefully expand tank power choice

I just wanted to say I love this mentality. Variety and the ability to successfully play your character in different ways is part of the fun of the game for me. I think looking at powers that are underutilized by the player base is a great starting point for rework to make those powers more competitive. It's super boring when everyone has the same build, rotation, etc.

thomasisalone · October 2023

I have a few comments on the fighter tank. It is now in the odd scenario where it's best encounter powers for aggro are the AOE one, with no comparable/viable ST ones.

Enforced Threat both lowering awareness, putting the player at the top of the the threat list (by default), AND lowering awareness is very powerful. The only downside is it does no damage, so it can risk you not actually getting to the top of the threat list. Compare to Paladin who do a small amount of damage on Vow of Enmity so getting back to the top of the threat list is a bit eaiser. I would recommend ET also does a pittance of damage ~100 mag. Granted, with the aggro changes it should be easy enough to get it back, but given the fighter has to wait for cooldowns and can't spam e.g. Smite on Pally, it would still be helpful.

Otherwise, ET is just way too useful compared to Anvil of Doom. Apart from some limited cases where you need to swap enemy aggros that AoD could be better, I don't really see how you're not supposed to just use ET. There's no downside. If Fighter gets a more detailed look in the future, I think this should be considered.

Threatening Rush is an AOE power with now absurd levels of threat generation. Why you would want to use any other attack encounter is not clear (maybe shield throw, but you have to sacrifice the Staying Power Feat) . For how much threat generation this power produces, I would think it should be single target, or have an equivalent.

As a general feedback, Threatening Rush is a very awkward power to use. It has a tendency to randomly turn the player around if the target moves towards the player, meaning it can often miss the mob group. I would suggest the power work closer to Bull Charge that does an aoe around the player, or a targetable area that the player lands in.

The second Feats option for the fighter is pretty useless. The extra damage to attacks on applies to multi-target hits, and the magnitude is tiny. I would rather see it play better into AOE vs Single Target. e.g. one Feat gives Bull Charge higher damage and/or threat generation, the other causes Bull Charge to do damage to nearby enemies as I suggested for Threatening Rush. This is just to give some options for play as it's a pointless Feat selection.

In general, at least for fighter, I think these changes are help in terms of holding aggro, but are going to homogenise tanking even more to the point it is a bit boring. Currently, I think there is an issue of keeping aggro in high dps groups, but this is because of changes in the combat rework that put the different roles in much tighter boxes than before - tanks have had damage reduced, and it was made harder to cap defensive stats leaving little room to increase damage to keep aggro. DPS had their damage increased, and are now so easy to kill that they have little choice but to cap all offensive stats to kill things as quickly as possible, leaving little room to improve survivability. The gear choices for the classes have been leaning into these roll separations. It's not even really realistic for a tank to kill an annoying mob (e.g. in MDWP Boss 2), you are very reliant on the DPS or comps to do it for you. When Band of Air was OP, it was refreshing as I did have a tank that could reasonably keep up with dps, and was built around keeping aggro just from damage - but this is no longer viable, and I'm not sure if such a build is possible without such a powerful crutch item. For the fighter, I think these changes will just continue the trend of survivability over all else. It is likely to be possible to hold aggro using at-wills, ET+Feat, and Retaliate; so why bother with the damaging encounters. What's left then is Knight's Valor and Iron Warrior as the only useful powers. Even Threatening Rush might not be super useful outside of AOE because you can rely on Knight's Valor to take aggro directly from dps, and the very high threat generation of at-wills from the ET+Feat and Tide of Iron. Honestly, this may just need a general look over the fighter class so that it is more interesting to play.

dracul · October 2023

Devs, any news about the rework of Knight's Valor from the Fighter Vanguard to NOT drain the threat from other tanks ? Barbarian and Paladin tanks can't be hostage of this dirty trick in Trials and Skirmishes anymore. This is a huge unbalance on threat generation in the game and needs to be fixed. The Fighter Tank can't be a spoiled child who is the only one allowed to cheat. Please rework Knight's Valor !

darthpotater · October 2023

dracul#0910 said:
Devs, any news about the rework of Knight's Valor from the Fighter Vanguard to NOT drain the threat from other tanks ? Barbarian and Paladin tanks can't be hostage of this dirty trick in Trials and Skirmishes anymore. This is a huge unbalance on threat generation in the game and needs to be fixed. The Fighter Tank can't be a spoiled child who is the only one allowed to cheat. Please rework Knight's Valor !

Can you stop copy pasting your same comment in all the threads? you are only spamming and wont get more attention like that

M27 Tank Update Feedback

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