Menzoberranzan Masterwork - General Feedback

aster · August 2023

Hello @cryptic39#8917 @percemer @ambassadorkael#6946 here I would like to give some feedbacks about actually Menzoberranzan Masterwork.

Like Sharandar ones, also here we have some items which are absolutely out of line compared to other items, in terms of materials needed.

WEAPONS FOR CLASSES - For crafting the weapon set (main hand and off hand) one of the most important material is the SOUL BEAD, since it require a lot of expensive materials. Most of the weapons require at least 1 or 2 into craft processing, but there are some weapons which require more than others and this is not fair, like cleric weapons which require 6 soul bead or like rogue weapons which needs 3.

*Here a list of the soul bead needed for all the weapons*
-Paladin (Shield 2 soul bead - Mace No soul bead)
-Figheter (Shield No soul bead - Longsword No soul bead)
-Bard (Lute No soul bead - Rapier 1 soul bead)
-Ranger ( Bow 2 soul bead - Picks No soul bead)
-Wizard (talisman No soul bead - Orb 2 soul bead)
-Barbarian ( Hammer No soul bead - Sword Knot 2 soul bead)
-Warlock ( Book No soul bead - Pactblade 2 soul bead)
-Rogue (Dagger 1 soul bead - Stiletto 2 soul bead)
-Cleric (Icon 2 soul bead - Symbol 4 soul bead)

So here the feedback about the weapons:
Remove the soul bead as materials needed for cleric OFF HAND (Icon)
Reduce the amount of soul bead from cleric MAIN HAND (at least 3, 2 would be perfect)
Remove the amount of soul bead from rogue MAIN HAND
Add soul bead into fighter weapons (1 or 2 in just one of the weapon)

Another feedback on weapons and their appeal
In my opinion the current weapons are in a bad spot in terms of appeal, I mean they are good, 1900 IL, 200 damage added, and same bonus as old ones but is not enough to compete with the new weapons released in the current mods.
My suggestion for increase the appeal of the weapons is to buff the bonus they actually give (from actually 2% to 3% per stacks). Why? Because having the old weapons (the chultan or sharandar) don't make/feels any really difference for support classes, and dps already have better weapons than latest masterwork.
So yeah, imo increasing the buff from 2% to 3% and maybe make them 2000 IL normal version and 2100 the +1 would be better.

aster · August 2023

GEAR (Armors, Helmets, Arms, Boots)
Also for those gear the appeal is pretty low mostly because they are giving ONLY rating, and nowadays people are trying to find ways to reducing their actually ratings, since most of the time they are already overcapped. Also new items from new dungeon and master trial have already a lot of ratings too.

I would like to suggest to change the bonus to be something like 50% splitted in rating and 50% splitted in percentages
EXAMPLE: Mastered Duergar Mercenary Gloves: When your health is 50% or more, your critical strike is increased by 10,000. When your health is below 50%, Critical avoidance is increased by 10,000.

Would be better imo if its: When your health is 50% or more, your critical strike is increased by 5,000 and 5%. When your health is below 50%, Critical avoidance is increased by 5,000 and 5%.

A change like this would help better these items in beeing interest, also because most of the items we already used, are mostly items with %s as bonus (ribcages, goristro helmets and so on)

I personally like the armor which gives actually AP gain and Stamina regen on back, and I wish to see more items with also the others utility stats aswell in the future

deanski07 · August 2023

I don't know about anyone else, but for me putting in ANY amount of High-quality materials into the recipes does not affect the focus one iota. Is this the way it is supposed to be? Makes it extremely difficult to make ANY High-quality items.

deanski07 · August 2023

Well I just had my second failure in a row trying to make the Barbarian offhand. At times like this I want to pull out my hair and rage quit. The cost to acquire the materials for the offhand is simply ridiculous. 2 failures costs me 5-6 million AD and I am using an Artisan that has 450 proficiency plus using a supplement of 125 proficiency, and all that gives me is 80% proficiency, that is the best one can do even with a Hammer of Gond. At 80% I get 2 failures in a row. That really sucks the big one!! You guys are making me broke and making me feel like quitting Masterwork all together. Good job you guys!!

strathkin · September 2023

deanski07 said:
The cost to acquire the materials for the offhand is simply ridiculous. 2 failures costs me 5-6 million AD and I am using an Artisan that has 450 proficiency plus using a supplement of 125 proficiency, and all that gives me is 80% proficiency, that is the best one can do even with a Hammer of Gond. At 80% I get 2 failures in a row. That really sucks the big one!! You guys are making me broke and making me feel like quitting Masterwork all together. Good job you guys!!

I heard YEARS ago even after getting the Hammer of Gond, many with 80% success rate often had 2, sometimes even 3+ failures the ODD time. I mean it's possible, yet it honestly shouldn't happen all that often, and most had it a lot more than they should. Clearly is an unintended FEATURE cause you should likely see 4 successes out of 5, reality is your success even when it says 80% is not even 50/50.

I honestly BELIEVE that's the SINGLE biggest reason why most NEVER got into Mastercraft. Still just the time it takes to gather, or convert all the materials which now (many) are very cheap & it still take a lot of time to upgrade various pieces.

It's likely why >95% of the Playerbase just doesn't even bother which is kind of a bit sad, given the EFFORT they put creating the system most largely ignore..

autumnwitch · September 2023

strathkin said:

deanski07 said:
The cost to acquire the materials for the offhand is simply ridiculous. 2 failures costs me 5-6 million AD and I am using an Artisan that has 450 proficiency plus using a supplement of 125 proficiency, and all that gives me is 80% proficiency, that is the best one can do even with a Hammer of Gond. At 80% I get 2 failures in a row. That really sucks the big one!! You guys are making me broke and making me feel like quitting Masterwork all together. Good job you guys!!
I heard YEARS ago even after getting the Hammer of Gond, many with 80% success rate often had 2, sometimes even 3+ failures the ODD time. I mean it's possible, yet it honestly shouldn't happen all that often, and most had it a lot more than they should. Clearly is an unintended FEATURE cause you should likely see 4 successes out of 5, reality is your success even when it says 80% is not even 50/50.

I honestly BELIEVE that's the SINGLE biggest reason why most NEVER got into Mastercraft. Still just the time it takes to gather, or convert all the materials which now (many) are very cheap & it still take a lot of time to upgrade various pieces.

It's likely why >95% of the Playerbase just doesn't even bother which is kind of a bit sad, given the EFFORT they put creating the system most largely ignore..

Someone over on Reddit explained that 80% proficiently isn't really 80% chance of success but it's actually much lower. This came up because someone had a 100% proficiently and still failed. I don't know if that is true or a bug or what. But something isn't right.

I have noticed every single time I try a new MW recipe out, even if my proficiently is 90% I always fail. Usually takes 2 or 3 times but then it seems to get much more successful after that. Maybe there is some maths going on that changes over time or it's programmed to have a high rate of fail the fist time. All I know is they aren't being totally honest with us.

plasticbat · September 2023

autumnwitch said:
This came up because someone had a 100% proficiently and still failed. I don't know if that is true or a bug or what. But something isn't right.

It is because when they saw 100%, it is not 100%. It is round up to be 100%.
I had that failed a few times. When I checked that closer, I had something like 1218/1219 and it showed 100% (because it was rounded up).

If I have less than 90%, I would not even try. With less than 98%, I expect 50% failure.

strathkin · September 2023

plasticbat said:
If I have less than 90%, I would not even try. With less than 98%, I expect 50% failure.

Personally I think that's just rather disappointing, it's largely why 95% or more don't even bother. I mean encouraging more to doing Mastercraft would be nice, yet it's just not something they want to bother with. Just wished normal Crafting at level 20 as well offered just a bit more as well.

callumf#9018 said:
That is just ridiculous - on a 98% chance of success failure should be really rare. Full stop.

And yep this kind of thing is why I havent crafted in years. I loved the system, but the fail rate was madness.

Yea with the Normal level 1-20 crafting the success chance seems a lot more in sync with reality, it's just sadly (not) the case with Mastercraft. That's honestly WHY it's such a huge frustration for many, I mean if the success rates were actually closer then some of the gear might actually be more affordable for (some) not all. Yet in all honesty it would likely make profit slightly higher, even if the cost of gear was dropped by 50%. Because you'd have like 2-3x less failures for every success.

The ONE thing I never liked is while many do craft, vast majority mostly craft the low level items. It's just honest sad they don't have something like sell all unprotected gear, like they do with treasures!

People spend a lot of time, and sure it might make it easier to farm gold, it would also likely reduce the cost of it a bit as well. Especially if more got into Mastercraft...

*Just saying the obvious*

callumf · September 2023

That is just ridiculous - on a 98% chance of success failure should be really rare. Full stop.

And yep this kind of thing is why I havent crafted in years. I loved the system, but the fail rate was madness.

mintmark · September 2023

I think we have entered the realms of perception and expectation here.

I regularly craft common items with 95% proficiency and it does fail now and again, and probably one time in twenty. I expect it and I don't mind because the ingredients are cheap enough, it's OK.
Now if that was a masterwork item and I only had one attempt, and it failed, well, that's all my attempts gone (no more ingredients) and I feel like it never works.

That's not realistic though because with masterwork I find myself nearer 80% proficiency, or even 70% if I am trying for a +1 item with high focus, so I'm even more likely to be disappointed. Time to pray for the recycle skill to trigger!

I suggest it does basically work. Yes there might be a discrepancy between the calculation and the display (the rounding pointed out by plasticbat), but I think most of the disappointment comes from the limited number and cost of the attempts. It makes a failure feel much worse. Especially if you get that bitter success of an ordinary item when you were going for a +1.

autumnwitch · September 2023

mintmark said:
I think we have entered the realms of perception and expectation here.

I regularly craft common items with 95% proficiency and it does fail now and again, and probably one time in twenty. I expect it and I don't mind because the ingredients are cheap enough, it's OK.
Now if that was a masterwork item and I only had one attempt, and it failed, well, that's all my attempts gone (no more ingredients) and I feel like it never works.

That's not realistic though because with masterwork I find myself nearer 80% proficiency, or even 70% if I am trying for a +1 item with high focus, so I'm even more likely to be disappointed. Time to pray for the recycle skill to trigger!

I suggest it does basically work. Yes there might be a discrepancy between the calculation and the display (the rounding pointed out by plasticbat), but I think most of the disappointment comes from the limited number and cost of the attempts. It makes a failure feel much worse. Especially if you get that bitter success of an ordinary item when you were going for a +1.

I would agree with this but there are two things that make me doubt they are being totally honest with us. The uncanny numbers of times (with me always never an exception) the first time I do a MC recipe it ALWAYS fails. This may not be the case with some of you but I can only go by what I experience directly.

This may not seem related but I think it may come down to how they do (technically) probability in NW. One time I was at a skill node with a 75% chance to work (meaning a 25% to fail). This means I should expect to fail 1 in 4 times. I failed 15 times in a row (I saved the video just so I could count out the times). If you look at the maths is this situation impossible? No. But it's extremely unlikely.

darthpotater · September 2023

The percentages work. The problem is the RNG in this game (and others too) is streaky. Dont you remember failing a skill node with 75% 5 times in a row? this is the same.

Streaks occur a lot, in the success and the fails.

When you get a fail, a second fail is likely. Just wait 1 min, change instance, or something. I dont know what thigs are used to get the seed of the random numbers, but success and fails are streaky. Not only in masterwork.

mintmark · September 2023

Yes, the streakiness is real, and I'm sure each player has their own methods to maybe improve chances. Before the workshop I would go to a quiet instance, at a quiet time of day to try and craft those masterwork commission items. And, as mentioned, wait a while after a failure, or go somewhere else. It almost feels like it needs a server response to evaluate the next attempt, and if the connection or server is busy it just reuses the last result again.

It probably does give streaks of success as well. I did make two +1 masterwork weapons one after the other once... and there was a time I had three mythic results from opening four lockboxes in a row. And with skill nodes and treasure chests, sometimes I get loads of insignia within a few minutes.

trinity706 · October 2023

So the Mod 26 Duergar legendary tools start at 575 proficiency/focus which is the exact SAME as the previous ilvl 110 +1 tools and the +1 versions of the Mod 26 tools is only 600 proficiency/focus?... Really?...

- The Chult tools have less proficiency/focus than the previous tools available.
- New tools with higher proficiency/focus were not released with Sharandar (Mod 20).
- More than 2 years later players get a maximum of 25 additional proficiency/focus (600/600 total on tools) over the previous tools?
- +25/+25 translates into like 2% proficiency and 5% focus...

What exactly are these legendary tools supposed to do for Mastercrafting? 80% chance to 82%? Or is the 10% recycle/5% dab hand supposed to make up for those trivial increases after such a long time? Couldn't start at 600 and +1 to 625 right? The devs don't seem to cease with the ridiculousness...

Sure lower level crafting can get put over the hump though the new tools require unlocking various levels of Mastercrafting while providing lackluster benefit to Mastercrafting itself... Absolutely wonderful, pure genius...

mercury78 · October 2023

It's also disappointing that the new tools do not provide more of a benefit to Mastercrafting. The 10% recycle chance and 5% dab hand chance are nice, but they don't make up for the lackluster increase in proficiency and focus. It seems like they're not really interested in supporting it

darthpotater · October 2023

Because hammer of gond exists, any tool that has less than 600 in proficency is potentially useless for high MC items.

The new +1 tools have the same proficency / forcus than the hammer plus a 10% recycle skill wich saves you materials in the long term.

It doesnt matter how much proficency you have, All the top items are balanced around 70-75% success rate wich is intended. If they make 1000 proficency tools some day, the items will require more so the percentage will remain.

jana · October 2023

Just to get to workshop 4 is ridiculous, and the bugs I encountered in the workshop were just ridiculous, starting with no delivery box in my workshop to open, and back then support was as handy as a jock strap for a woman. I am slowly going towards level 4, but I am so not rushing it. MC doesn't sound worth the effort, but I might want to someday if they fix the glaring problems I read here.

trinity706 · October 2023

The HoG is a tool introduced how long ago, over 8 years? All these years later the Mod 26 tools are simply HoG with 10% recycle or 5% dab hand?... Players have already been using both skills and STILL failing more often than not. Now players can fail on multiple high risk tasks instead of just waiting on/rushing only the hammer, burn through resources that much faster > need more AD > buy ZEN > convert to AD > buy materials > continue... yeah, that sounds about right... Long term? Recycle and dab hand on Mod 26 tools is not simply going to bring MC'ing into a better position, even when combined with current recycle and dab hand strategies. As time has proven in general with Neverwinter RNG over and over throughout the years, in regard to MC'ing, a stray recycle here, dad hand there most likely be met with more failures than successes in the "long term", improving what, pseudo fulfillment? More like jack squat...

jana#2651 said:
Just to get to workshop 4 is ridiculous " " " I am slowly going towards level 4, but I am so not rushing it. MC doesn't sound worth the effort, but I might want to someday if they fix the glaring problems I read here.

Beyond ridiculous, though as usual, there is conveniently an AD costing remedy... 5kk AD or more for 8 additional delivery box slots, per character... so yeah, personally going for slowly as well lol.

MC'ing for personal use? Maybe, then again it is essentially cheaper on AD/time to buy finished products off someone than to try and produce them yourself (unlocking MC'ing in the first place, leveling all professions, buying various MC recipes at 1kk+ AD each, etc). MC'ing for profit? There are much simpler ways to get AD without the costly risks inherent with MC'ing.

mintmark · October 2023

trinity706#8838 said:

- New tools were nor released with Sharandar (Mod 20).

There were new tools for Sharandar... fey something something...
You don't make them, you buy them from the vendor after turning in commission items.

trinity706 · October 2023

mintmark said:
There were new tools for Sharandar... fey something something...
You don't make them, you buy them from the vendor after turning in commission items.

Those tools were personally disregarded because their proficiency/focus did not exceed that of the lvl 20/iLvl 110 tools and the skills on them are arguably not consistent enough to be considerably beneficial. The initial post was edited for specification purposes (and to correct a spelling mistake), thank you.

Menzoberranzan Masterwork - General Feedback

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