Is it normal to feel disrespected?

irene · June 2023

As a healer, yesterday I spent 20M on a golden pulp. Today people demand me to use Driz / Tut / Scorp.
Yesterday, I spent hundreds of hours to complete campaign to get a nice healing neck and waist piece. Today people demand me to use vasni.

I do have those things they want ready, but part of me don't wish to follow the meta. Part of me don't wish to disrespect my past efforts.

When I humbly refused, claiming the DPS is strong and I wish to enjoy healing stronger my style, the DPS players got offended.

Very offended.

It was only few sentences of exchange. "Irene swap your items" "No I don't want to" "F off". That kind of treatment.
You get the idea. In that minute, I lost trust and value in the team. And I have to carry that toxic in my mind. I never scold anyone, never make a scene, I quietly exit the play team and stopped playing. It's only a game. But I find that disrespect feel on my mind difficult to drop.

What about me? what about the things I've spent so much time to earn them, that I truly wanted to use? Am I your puppet? Must I log in to equip only the things the meta desired? What about exploring the game and inventing our unique style?

Today, players all followed the meta, and I've voiced about it before - a meta can kill mmorpg in the long run. A new patch appeared, a strong guild overcome them and post the strategies, and everyone buys that companion or plays it their way. Those who don't will be disrespected. In the long run everyone realize it's just epic item grind and eventually stopped. The magic is gone. Like WoW. It's gone. It became a work simulator with full instructions. At least Neverwinter still has that bit of try and error left, still has that little bit of exploration left.

I am still really troubled by it. What can I do to overcome this negativity? I'm starting to hate end game players who are "followers", who demand me to equip only what they wanted. What should I do to find back that positivity?

plasticbat · June 2023

Why do you care about what other people think or want?
Why do you care about the respect from the people you don't respect?
Why do you need to justify what you did and what you did not do to others?

plan009 · June 2023

Hate the meta. The furthest I went with it was change from whisperknife to assassin and claim I’m a whisperknife of the jeet kun do (learn every fighting style, use what parts work for you, and toss the rest) philosophy, lol.

I agree with plasticbat, but understand how un-fun it can be with people expecting you to do things the “right” way or just plain their way. I’m mostly a rogue, so you may not think it’s quite the same, but I’ve mostly learned by trial and error, don’t use any particular rotation, don’t even remember the names of my own attacks besides smoke bomb, lol.

You know, I use that blade one that you can do twice if you go invisible first and the one where little knives are coming out of the ground anywhere near me for a bit. I even used to use that shadow (even friends sometimes forget what using “my shadow” means when I say it) one before I got to end game - never saw other people using it, but it’s great when you know how it works and you need to survive by distraction and speed. So, yeah, I’ve gotten my share and have lots of stories, but I play it the way I enjoy it most or I just don’t play it.

Anyway, I usually block those people and have a laugh at how they’ll be screaming at me the next time we meet and I’ll never know it. Over the years I’ve had less and less people yelling at me. ;D Actually, I think most of those people were too angry and rigid in their beliefs in “correct play” to enjoy the game and left not too long after. I, also, don’t do much endgame anymore - the chase and everything involved is just too stressful long term.

I would say, find something you really like about the game and do that to relax after that sort of situation. I love wandering around Barovia, getting to the highest places I can, especially in the town, and watching people from above. I like to hunt the Night Terror and annoy the horses (Wendy Black showed me the horse one at her last Barovia Bash.

jana · June 2023

I am sorry you had a bad experience, it sure would not be the end of the world for people to let you try it your way. What's a meta anyway" And just to make you feel better, I havent gotten to find a group who will play the master spider with me yet, but thats okay, I think I want to get better before I do.

irene · June 2023

plasticbat said:
Why do you care about what other people think or want?
Why do you care about the respect from the people you don't respect?
Why do you need to justify what you did and what you did not do to others?

Because I've reached end game, and those people who can down the hardest dungeon are equipped with that elitism and attitude. So it's almost always a ran into unhappiness.

A hundred times I've been scolding them in a self imagined scenario. Arguing back - so where is your 7.5% dps companion? where is your better dps build? why rely on tanks and healer to squeeze that extra dps for you? Why force us to equip things to cover your slack?" Of course I did not say those words in game to be negative on dps players, but turns out my maturity is rewarded with hamster words and attitude as long as I reject their demands. Can't blame them too, they are probably just students who hasn't seen the world. I just blame the meta.

Thank you plasticbat I see your point clearly. I've probably forgotten the basics. No matter how rare or epic the opponent is, why should I be offended if I don't respect. It's so true..

crow · June 2023

Master trials really want you to figure out the best possible loadouts across the team, and unless you prefer a steady loop of wipes, you should adjust your gear (generally speaking) accordingly. Those trials also come with a steep learning curve, so when it comes to actually run them, many players will be nervous, impatient, unforgiving, hostile and straight up a*holes. With their language reflecting all of it. The only thing you can do about it, is to brush it off and dgaf, as there are plenty of other players instead who do trials in a more benevolent way - while the need to adjust gear still remains true.

Other content aside from master trials however can very well be done without a meta approach. Players who still trash talk you because you don't give into their fixed ideas are player you want to avoid, and none of their words has any meaning to you

.

greywynd · June 2023

irene#2829 said:
Because I've reached end game, and those people who can down the hardest dungeon are equipped with that elitism and attitude.

It's always been there. Back when I started it was prevalent in the dragon runs and Tiamat. "You don't need it yet."

As the game progressed, the "requirements" change to whatever is currently hot. Band of Air ring a bell?

"Do you have MW/raptor?" "No." ...disconnect...

admiralwarlord · June 2023

Yesterday I was on the last boss and we failed 2x, I realized that the other DPS were suffering from the lack of healing and I changed my partner to the Dedicated Squire, the tank asked me why I would use this and I answered him because I wanted and liked him (didn't want to offend the healer) and the tank just left the group and one of the dps followed him as well. I called another Tank and another DPS that were weaker and with less item level than the ones that came out and we managed to complete it right away on the first try. Some players adapt to complete the content.

Once while I was in my tank some DPS said that I had no aggro and that I should use encounter powers suggested by them, and I explained to them that even if I used it, it would have no effect since with 5 artifact debuffs added with 2 mounts and the damage caused by the mounts and their powers along with the fact that I have a lower item level than them, I also commented that for me to tank the first and second boss I would need to use the maximum status (companion augment) and not use debuff ( armor break) and a rotation of specific powers for this (my build focuses on stamina recovery), they started to look down on me, that's when I simply told them that their opinion didn't interest me and left. See that they could adapt and try to play with me like I did with the healer mentioned in the first example, but they preferred to lose the tank, be rude and enter my block list xD

So having alternatives is always good, since you are forced to use this I don't agree and I also don't accept that this happens to me.

rockster · June 2023

It reminds me of PVP how back in the day it was fun and then slowly became more and more hostile and toxic to the point many of us just stopped playing it because it was too unpleasant and now it's dead as a door nail. This meta thing will probably have the same effect, it makes it unpleasant for a lot of players so they avoid it and stay away and don't participate, and as a result the area/activity in question becomes less and less populated with only a smaller group of the toxic or pushy players left doing it and once they leave the game (if they leave the game) that area/activity dies because everyone else has given up on it. I also click out of a dungeon if someone is being a pr!ck to me, I'm in the game for fun and relaxation and recreation and to enjoy myself and I throw enough money at the game to not expect to have some idiot try to control my game and make me feel cr@ppy. I have no hesitation in just taking a 30 min leaver penalty and going and doing other things for the wait, either ingame or in RL. It's all good to me. I currently don't go anywhere near trials as I don't approve of what they have become and I also don't go near ToS either because of the meta rubbish. I pretty-much stay away from the top-tier stuff on purpose and just do my own thing and that keeps me busy enough and I enjoy it fine anyway.

callumf · June 2023

irene#2829 said:
As a healer, yesterday I spent 20M on a golden pulp. Today people demand me to use Driz / Tut / Scorp.
Yesterday, I spent hundreds of hours to complete campaign to get a nice healing neck and waist piece. Today people demand me to use vasni.

I do have those things they want ready, but part of me don't wish to follow the meta. Part of me don't wish to disrespect my past efforts.

When I humbly refused, claiming the DPS is strong and I wish to enjoy healing stronger my style, the DPS players got offended.

Very offended.

It was only few sentences of exchange. "Irene swap your items" "No I don't want to" "F off". That kind of treatment.
You get the idea. In that minute, I lost trust and value in the team. And I have to carry that toxic in my mind. I never scold anyone, never make a scene, I quietly exit the play team and stopped playing. It's only a game. But I find that disrespect feel on my mind difficult to drop.

What about me? what about the things I've spent so much time to earn them, that I truly wanted to use? Am I your puppet? Must I log in to equip only the things the meta desired? What about exploring the game and inventing our unique style?

Today, players all followed the meta, and I've voiced about it before - a meta can kill mmorpg in the long run. A new patch appeared, a strong guild overcome them and post the strategies, and everyone buys that companion or plays it their way. Those who don't will be disrespected. In the long run everyone realize it's just epic item grind and eventually stopped. The magic is gone. Like WoW. It's gone. It became a work simulator with full instructions. At least Neverwinter still has that bit of try and error left, still has that little bit of exploration left.

I am still really troubled by it. What can I do to overcome this negativity? I'm starting to hate end game players who are "followers", who demand me to equip only what they wanted. What should I do to find back that positivity?

Its a sad state of affairs when the meta rules all [a bit like the One Ring...]

This is pretty much the reason I haven't run "end game" in MMOs for years, too much pressure and too much emphasis on completion of end game stuff regardless of fun, excitement, enjoyment.

I worked for an MMO for quite a few years, and its all about player vs game content creator and how quickly stuff can be completed.

And yep, build, execution and skillz is what gets content completed.

I just ran a CoK as tank and there was so little dps it was untrue, and the highest dps [when we failed] was the lowest item level dps out of the 6 of them. That tells the whole story.

As a healer I run Golden Bullette Pup and will continue to do so.

plasticbat · June 2023

Just because you consider you are "end game", it does not mean you have to play with another "end gamers" or another "more end game than end gamers" to get the job done. Just like you don't have to eat lunch on Mean Girls table or follow Mean Girls rules.

hadestemplar · June 2023

irene#2829 said:
As a healer, yesterday I spent 20M on a golden pulp. Today people demand me to use Driz / Tut / Scorp.
Yesterday, I spent hundreds of hours to complete campaign to get a nice healing neck and waist piece. Today people demand me to use vasni.

I do have those things they want ready, but part of me don't wish to follow the meta. Part of me don't wish to disrespect my past efforts.

When I humbly refused, claiming the DPS is strong and I wish to enjoy healing stronger my style, the DPS players got offended.

Very offended.

It was only few sentences of exchange. "Irene swap your items" "No I don't want to" "F off". That kind of treatment.
You get the idea. In that minute, I lost trust and value in the team. And I have to carry that toxic in my mind. I never scold anyone, never make a scene, I quietly exit the play team and stopped playing. It's only a game. But I find that disrespect feel on my mind difficult to drop.

What about me? what about the things I've spent so much time to earn them, that I truly wanted to use? Am I your puppet? Must I log in to equip only the things the meta desired? What about exploring the game and inventing our unique style?

Today, players all followed the meta, and I've voiced about it before - a meta can kill mmorpg in the long run. A new patch appeared, a strong guild overcome them and post the strategies, and everyone buys that companion or plays it their way. Those who don't will be disrespected. In the long run everyone realize it's just epic item grind and eventually stopped. The magic is gone. Like WoW. It's gone. It became a work simulator with full instructions. At least Neverwinter still has that bit of try and error left, still has that little bit of exploration left.

I am still really troubled by it. What can I do to overcome this negativity? I'm starting to hate end game players who are "followers", who demand me to equip only what they wanted. What should I do to find back that positivity?

My friend, are you playing this game or others playing it for you??

If you want to be respected, first of all start respect yourself. You play as healer, you choose how you want to set up. you choose how you want to use your abilites..

Quit chasig meta and simply play game for joy, not for trying prove anything to anyone. Also no need to chase after so called BiS companions, cuz some influencer advertised it.

Lot of players fail to notice that there is always decent alternatives. Or certain companions are good for party composition..

irene · June 2023

admiralwarlord#3792 said:
the tank just left the group and one of the dps followed him as well.
I called another Tank and another DPS that were weaker and with less item level than the ones
we managed to complete it right away on the first try.
Some players adapt to complete the content.

hadestemplar#9918 said:

Lot of players fail to notice that there is always decent alternatives.

Seeing there are still creative strong players around gives me hope. Thank you so much.

hustin1 · June 2023

irene#2829 said:
As a healer, yesterday I spent 20M on a golden pulp. Today people demand me to use Driz / Tut / Scorp.
Yesterday, I spent hundreds of hours to complete campaign to get a nice healing neck and waist piece. Today people demand me to use vasni.

I do have those things they want ready, but part of me don't wish to follow the meta. Part of me don't wish to disrespect my past efforts.

When I humbly refused, claiming the DPS is strong and I wish to enjoy healing stronger my style, the DPS players got offended.

Very offended.

It was only few sentences of exchange. "Irene swap your items" "No I don't want to" "F off". That kind of treatment.
You get the idea. In that minute, I lost trust and value in the team. And I have to carry that toxic in my mind. I never scold anyone, never make a scene, I quietly exit the play team and stopped playing. It's only a game. But I find that disrespect feel on my mind difficult to drop.

What about me? what about the things I've spent so much time to earn them, that I truly wanted to use? Am I your puppet? Must I log in to equip only the things the meta desired? What about exploring the game and inventing our unique style?

Today, players all followed the meta, and I've voiced about it before - a meta can kill mmorpg in the long run. A new patch appeared, a strong guild overcome them and post the strategies, and everyone buys that companion or plays it their way. Those who don't will be disrespected. In the long run everyone realize it's just epic item grind and eventually stopped. The magic is gone. Like WoW. It's gone. It became a work simulator with full instructions. At least Neverwinter still has that bit of try and error left, still has that little bit of exploration left.

I am still really troubled by it. What can I do to overcome this negativity? I'm starting to hate end game players who are "followers", who demand me to equip only what they wanted. What should I do to find back that positivity?

It's not normal to feel disrespected. Some players are simply toxic; they place completion of endgame content above how they treat other human beings. We've made it clear in our alliance that such players are not welcome, and if that means that we can't complete the toughest dungeons, so be it. Which is not to say that we don't attempt such content, but we consider how our members treat others to be more important.

jana · June 2023

WHAT is meta? A dungeon, gear or a group of elite or wtf?????

plasticbat · June 2023

jana#2651 said:
WHAT is meta? A dungeon, gear or a group of elite or wtf?????

https://plarium.com/en/blog/meta-in-gaming/

mintmark · June 2023

That was interesting... I never appreciated where the name came from and the broad range of things that can contribute to it.

But I'd say for here, it the testing and conclusions of the theorycrafters that lead to people identifying the "best" combinations for each role.
And that's combinations of everything... class, race, gear, powers (yours, companion and mount), rotations, boons... all of it.

Of course... "best for what?" is a valid question.

rockster · June 2023

meta in Neverwinter is a very narrowly defined set of slotted things which they make you feel forced to have equipped or else no play.

plasticbat · June 2023

Borg.

greywynd · June 2023

mintmark said:
That was interesting... I never appreciated where the name came from and the broad range of things that can contribute to it.

But I'd say for here, it the testing and conclusions of the theorycrafters that lead to people identifying the "best" combinations for each role.
And that's combinations of everything... class, race, gear, powers (yours, companion and mount), rotations, boons... all of it.

Of course... "best for what?" is a valid question.

And where have all the theorycrafters gone? Not like they post much here any longer.

jana · July 2023

Thank you plasticbat, that was very informative. I like to have stuff equipped or chosen that benefits everyone because it helps the whole group. I like the siege banner vs. the orb of pain even if it costs me some hit points on item level because it buffs everyone else and has that circle of protection like the staff of flowers but also has a good initial hit. I am surprised I have never seen anyone else using it.

Unknown · July 2023

This content has been removed.

hustin1 · July 2023

greywynd said:

mintmark said:
That was interesting... I never appreciated where the name came from and the broad range of things that can contribute to it.

But I'd say for here, it the testing and conclusions of the theorycrafters that lead to people identifying the "best" combinations for each role.
And that's combinations of everything... class, race, gear, powers (yours, companion and mount), rotations, boons... all of it.

Of course... "best for what?" is a valid question.
And where have all the theorycrafters gone? Not like they post much here any longer.

Part of the issue might be how the game has evolved so radically over the past ten years. My guild (Order of the Raven) was created back in beta by Kaelac, one of the game's original theorycrafters. By now, everything he worked out is long obsolete. Being a theorycrafter means hitting a constantly moving target.

raymark · August 2023

irene#2829 said:
As a healer, yesterday I spent 20M on a golden pulp. Today people demand me to use Driz / Tut / Scorp.
Yesterday, I spent hundreds of hours to complete campaign to get a nice healing neck and waist piece. Today people demand me to use vasni.

I do have those things they want ready, but part of me don't wish to follow the meta. Part of me don't wish to disrespect my past efforts.

When I humbly refused, claiming the DPS is strong and I wish to enjoy healing stronger my style, the DPS players got offended.

Very offended.

It was only few sentences of exchange. "Irene swap your items" "No I don't want to" "F off". That kind of treatment.
You get the idea. In that minute, I lost trust and value in the team. And I have to carry that toxic in my mind. I never scold anyone, never make a scene, I quietly exit the play team and stopped playing. It's only a game. But I find that disrespect feel on my mind difficult to drop.

What about me? what about the things I've spent so much time to earn them, that I truly wanted to use? Am I your puppet? Must I log in to equip only the things the meta desired? What about exploring the game and inventing our unique style?

Today, players all followed the meta, and I've voiced about it before - a meta can kill mmorpg in the long run. A new patch appeared, a strong guild overcome them and post the strategies, and everyone buys that companion or plays it their way. Those who don't will be disrespected. In the long run everyone realize it's just epic item grind and eventually stopped. The magic is gone. Like WoW. It's gone. It became a work simulator with full instructions. At least Neverwinter still has that bit of try and error left, still has that little bit of exploration left.

I am still really troubled by it. What can I do to overcome this negativity? I'm starting to hate end game players who are "followers", who demand me to equip only what they wanted. What should I do to find back that positivity?

I hear ya. For many reasons. Meta blo##.

(But before I rant I will concede .... There are however things like artifacts that meta is still important. Having unique and well tested artifacts will make the run go much smoother. )

First off I am probably the only ST Whisperknife in game. While I am still behind the best of the best (working on that) I am more than capable of being lead dps in ADWP (I am not 80k yet or id try MDWP). But the reason I have gotten to where I am at is that I have a strong internal mindset. Everyday I have someone telling me I need to be assassin, and every day I just tell them to buzz off, (and most of the time I end up ahead of them in the paingiver chart anyways) I have more then enough endgame friends that I can run any content with them and leave the rest behind.

Second off I HATE raptor. (IF the group requires it and its a hard enough dungeon i will use it HOWEVER)
Raptor buff is like putting training wheels on a bicycle. While it makes things easier it never lets you progress past a certain point. In an ideal world your group is all cap (or near cap) stats WITHOUT needing raptor. There are lot of ways to reach cap with party buffs these days that did not exist before, yet people still keep holding onto there training wheels. For the record my putting on raptor buff is actually costing me CA or whatever buff I choose to slot. While I use Dread Warrior as a companion which provides my party with 5k power (5%) and 5% critical severity (with some down time) which is way more than raptor does.
There are also buffs that provide party with CA (Lizard i believe) and other buffs that did not exist back in the day where raptor may have been needed. These days however is more a crutch then an asset.

(While I use raptor as my primary example there are many other example of meta people holding onto the past out there.)

Irene
If you want to run stuff without the drama see you on the Bombshelter,

Flecia

Is it normal to feel disrespected?

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