Please put the random back in random

amascus · January 2022

@noworries @crypticpop @nitocris
Please put the random back into RADQ and RTQ. Since the pool of possible dungeons has been truncated it feels anything but random these days. Anyone who can do the advanced random is unlikely to do the regular and 80% of the server meets the criteria for advanced and are being scaled anyway. As for RTQ it seems to be 80% Demogorgon and 20% everything else and that is being generous to the everything else. With the scaling in place now I do not see a reason to keep them separate. More people running around in more variety of content will benefit all concerned. As far as the AD goes people are gonna do their 100k rough the fact that they are playing and accessing a wider variety of content is what matters.

Just my 2 cents, thank you if you read it!

plasticbat · January 2022

Random queue was never meant for getting random dungeon. The random part is you will be placed randomly in the existing queue (i.e. whatever dungeon people choose to do but can't fill the party). The creation of random queue is to help speeding up existing queue and the rAD you get from it is your reward for helping existing queue. Hence, there is no random to put it back. It works the same way from the very beginning to now.

If you can't deal with that, don't do RQ like me.

amascus · January 2022

awseome Plasticbat insight but my point is it is not really working for a lot of folks now

plasticbat · January 2022

amascus#1899 said:
awseome Plasticbat insight but my point is it is not really working for a lot of folks now

As I said, if you don't want to 'help', don't do it. I knew it does not work since the announcement of such creation. There is a long list of reason why it does not but well, ...
What you complain about now has been more or less the same before its creation.

amascus · January 2022

I want it to be fun and feel like something is being accomplished I would bet 50% of all randoms are abandoned right now. Hanging out in protectors enclave talking smack and discussing flat earth may work for you but a lot of people would prefer to be playing and what i suggested would contribute to that

plasticbat · January 2022

amascus#1899 said:
I want it to be fun and feel like something is being accomplished I would bet 50% of all randoms are abandoned right now. Hanging out in protectors enclave talking smack and discussing flat earth may work for you but a lot of people would prefer to be playing and what i suggested would contribute to that

What would be the reason why I do not do it? Because I knew it would not be fun. You don't have to do RQ, you can choose the dungeon you want to play. Try it, it can be fun.

amascus · January 2022

I see so are you for or against what I have suggested as a change? Seems like you are dancing around my subject

plasticbat · January 2022

amascus#1899 said:
I see so are you for or against what I have suggested as a change? Seems like you are dancing around my subject

I always say get rid of RQ. No RQ is a solution (for me, anyway). Not putting back "random". Get rid of it. Back to the day before RQ was introduced. It was the best time, again, for me, anyway.

flyball · February 2022

Random is for who one plays with.

If no queues are actively open and looking for a replacement,,,then it might randomly assign a dungeon to the golden group (3dps 1t 1h or 6dps 2t2h for trials.

As long as people are abandoning demo and perhaps IC/Ravenloft those dungeons will supply reinforcements from the rtq pool until time runs out on that instance.

amascus · February 2022

The point of the post was that in my opinion a minor change could make them better and more fun for all. Wasn't really after an explanation of how they are set up now but I seem to be the only one who feels they are not what they could be.

flyball · February 2022

The problem with your idea is the call for reinforcements would then never work as all players would only be queuing for a new dungeon. This would leave many forced to play with those the have come to despise, or try to short man and likely fail to complete. Especially since many rdq/rtqs with random groups contain an overload of players who really do not understand the mechanic of the content they are in.....and those that are unwilling to listen to advice from others or do not understand the nuisances of one's build.

karvare · February 2022

I am sorry, but what was your suggestion? How would you "fix" the current system? Unless you are in a pre-made/full group you will still have a chance that your queue is a re-enforcement. If you are brought in as re-enforcement then it will probably mean Demo. I agree with plastic, I much preferred the days before randoms. It was and still is a bad idea, created to speed up the queues but doesn't.

Let's just make running the content worth doing. Why does the run have to be random to pay well?

amascus · February 2022

It wasn't a fix but an improvement to what already exist. How many people are on the remove DEMO band wagon? if they did that that would leave a pool of 3 possible trials. What I was suggesting was to expand the pool of possible options available in the randoms by merging them all high and low dungeons. Since the list was truncated removing a lot of the content the same dungeons and trials come up more frequently. The new scaling should make any dungeon adequate for any player and even if it is old content (most everything is) it would not be coming up as often and would not remain unused for the most part. If someone wants only the harder content it can be specifically chosen and doesn't need to be got via random there is no need to limit a random grouping to 3 or 4 possibilities. People choose randoms for their own reasons (mostly rAD) and I do not see why reinforcements coming in to replace a DCed or abandoned player would be an issue except when they cannot handle the content. If there were more possibilities in the pool the random is drawn from DEMO would not come up so much. Demo is kind of its own issue and there is a lot of discussion surrounding it going on.

karvare · February 2022

Ok, so merge the random queues to; RDQ(random dungeon), and what random trial or skirmish? Merging the dungeons will not fix the Demo problem, as that requires 2 parties. Are you advocating a random queue which can be any content? What about the players that lack IL to run higher end content? Will they now have to wait, with out any random queue so no RAD boost?

Not arguing, really want to understand your thoughts there. The random queue is currently the best way to generate RAD, so any change would have to allow for the plurality of the player base.

plasticbat · February 2022

amascus#1899 said:
It wasn't a fix but an improvement to what already exist. How many people are on the remove DEMO band wagon? if they did that that would leave a pool of 3 possible trials. What I was suggesting was to expand the pool of possible options available in the randoms by merging them all high and low dungeons. Since the list was truncated removing a lot of the content the same dungeons and trials come up more frequently. The new scaling should make any dungeon adequate for any player and even if it is old content (most everything is) it would not be coming up as often and would not remain unused for the most part. If someone wants only the harder content it can be specifically chosen and doesn't need to be got via random there is no need to limit a random grouping to 3 or 4 possibilities. People choose randoms for their own reasons (mostly rAD) and I do not see why reinforcements coming in to replace a DCed or abandoned player would be an issue except when they cannot handle the content. If there were more possibilities in the pool the random is drawn from DEMO would not come up so much. Demo is kind of its own issue and there is a lot of discussion surrounding it going on.

To "fix" it, it means it needs to do some programming and add more bugs. Removing RQ does not need much programming. It is just as if the "random" button in "Queue" window does not exist. Disable it, hide it, whatever. It is not much work.

People choose whatever dungeon they want to play. The reinforcement would be the next guy choose to play the same dungeon.

The only thing left is AD. Assigning AD reward in each dungeon is just data entry to the database. No serious programming needed.

There is no need for RQ except the purpose of forcing people (as for some, it is the only source of the AD) to help. If the 'help' factor is removed, there is no point to keep RQ.

If one really wants the "magic of random", one can pick multiple dungeons (they like to play) and see which one pops first.

Is there other reason one has to have RQ?

amascus · February 2022

plasticbat said:

To "fix" it, it means it needs to do some programming and add more bugs. Removing RQ does not need much programming. It is just as if the "random" button in "Queue" window does not exist. Disable it, hide it, whatever. It is not much work.

People choose whatever dungeon they want to play. The reinforcement would be the next guy choose to play the same dungeon.

The only thing left is AD. Assigning AD reward in each dungeon is just data entry to the database. No serious programming needed.

There is no need for RQ except the purpose of forcing people (as for some, it is the only source of the AD) to help. If the 'help' factor is removed, there is no point to keep RQ.

If one really wants the "magic of random", one can pick multiple dungeons (they like to play) and see which one pops first.

Is there other reason one has to have RQ?

Why is your post count so high, definitely not from being helpful!

plasticbat · February 2022

amascus#1899 said:

plasticbat said:

To "fix" it, it means it needs to do some programming and add more bugs. Removing RQ does not need much programming. It is just as if the "random" button in "Queue" window does not exist. Disable it, hide it, whatever. It is not much work.

People choose whatever dungeon they want to play. The reinforcement would be the next guy choose to play the same dungeon.

The only thing left is AD. Assigning AD reward in each dungeon is just data entry to the database. No serious programming needed.

There is no need for RQ except the purpose of forcing people (as for some, it is the only source of the AD) to help. If the 'help' factor is removed, there is no point to keep RQ.

If one really wants the "magic of random", one can pick multiple dungeons (they like to play) and see which one pops first.

Is there other reason one has to have RQ?
Why is your post count so high, definitely not from being helpful!

My post count is your counter argument. ok.

amascus · February 2022

My apologies that was a bit rude of me, please carry on. out here

greywynd · February 2022

Welcome to the "Your Post Count is High. You Talk Too Much" club.

karvare · February 2022

I find a lot of posts from plasticbat to be very helpful. Just because someone has a difference of opinion does not make them unhelpful.

tchefi · February 2022

amascus#1899 said:

Why is your post count so high, definitely not from being helpful!

mintmark · February 2022

plasticbat said:

Is there other reason one has to have RQ?

Would we end up back in the situation where you could only ever run the easiest or fastest content because that's all that everybody else wanted to do? Any other content would rarely pop...

At the moment we have a role bonus that changes, to attract the most needed role... What if the AD reward was higher for the least run content, like a sort of incentive for variety?

namelesshero347 · February 2022

The only thing I remember from the pre-RQ days is running only eToS and SoT on every toon I have. And lots of people ran trash toons to get the full reward on each toon they sent through the grinder.

namelesshero347 · February 2022

And the salvage pieces, I still have RAD in the bank from them.

plasticbat · February 2022

mintmark said:

plasticbat said:

Is there other reason one has to have RQ?
Would we end up back in the situation where you could only ever run the easiest or fastest content because that's all that everybody else wanted to do? Any other content would rarely pop...

At the moment we have a role bonus that changes, to attract the most needed role... What if the AD reward was higher for the least run content, like a sort of incentive for variety?

There are alternative designs that could be better than RQ to solve the pop issue.

1. With higher AD reward of least run content as mentioned.
2. With weekly extra bonus for certain tough dungeon every week. Changing dungeon every week.
3. Rename RQ to be Helper Queue (or Harper Queue for more game taste) and allow running chosen dungeon to have some AD so that if one really wants to help and get extra AD, they can. For those who just wants to run dungeon of their choice to get some AD, they can.
4. ...

The idea is to avoid "forcing" people to run something they don't want to run but to give extra incentive to make it worthwhile.
The current method is: remove incentive to run the dungeon they choose to run and forcing them to run RQ to get AD.

plasticbat · February 2022

namelesshero347 said:
The only thing I remember from the pre-RQ days is running only eToS and SoT on every toon I have. And lots of people ran trash toons to get the full reward on each toon they sent through the grinder.

That was not what we did in those days. It was more fun back then. After RQ was introduced, people came in to do RQ to fill the 'quota' and logout. It is a like a job, people check in, do work, check out. The fun factor was removed.

Back then, it was more fun for us. We were kind of creative to do runs in weekend such as 5 TR runs, 5 DC runs, no armour run, 5 female characters run, .....

darthpotater · February 2022

I have 3 suggestions to improve the actual situation

1) Give more RAD in each dungeon, acording to the average time of the runs (to avoid everyone doing the same short dungeons and skimirshes)

2) Keep RQ with a bonus RAD for joining and with de delvers bonus allways active in Randoms.

3) Remove demogorgon from RQ. Improve the chance to get artifact / belt / neck.

Please put the random back in random

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