Why Was The Stronghold Potion Boon Nerfed From 75% to 10%?

zorro1267 · September 2021

It appears you nerfed the stronghold boon that heals the party for 75% of a potion's strength. It no longer heals for 75%. Instead it heals for a mere 10% Did you think no one would notice? Please put it back to the way it was. The way it is now makes it pretty much useless.

Unknown · September 2021

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silente07 · September 2021

> @arkhadiam#2543 said:
> Well, ir u see ir useless, just pick other boon. Dunno, u really dont need since there is a healer in the group.

It’s a boon structure that involves huge resources that are harder to get and was actually useful especially when helping guildies get through or learn content.
Regardless of your opinion, something that took a great deal of effort has now been reduced to worthless.
So either fix it, or allow boon structure to change or add more. The XP change was bad enough.

greywynd · September 2021

Boon structures can be changed.

silente07 · September 2021

> @greywynd said:
> Boon structures can be changed.

Oh sure they indeed can. With a ton of resources and investment. Which should not be a fix for a stupid nerf.
They take forever to build and are costly. Why should I be penalized for devs bad choices.
I have 5 guilds, it’s a kick in the teeth AGAIN for boon plots.

Players are no longer invested in their guilds, they just want to be in a 20 and lol, now most of the 20 levels guilds are only taking 40k+ players.

So building plots on lower guilds is now a tedious grind.
It used to be fun, because progress was a bit easier. Now it’s just stupid.

armadeonx · September 2021

If they are going to persist with changing the effects of guild boon structures they need to either make them a LOT cheaper or allow all boon plots to be built simultaneously. Having to tear one down to put up another is a huge cost and inconvenience to players.

rockster · September 2021

Or they could compensate those guilds who feel they have been ripped off and wasted all those resources and all that time by organizing a straight swap to another type of structure of the same rank nominated by that guild as an "I'm sorry".

xenocide · September 2021

Thats odd. They have told the community that they were unable to rework strongholds because the original person who designed them left and their current staff did not know how to add on to it.

However making nerfs to things in the stronghold such as foods and boons seems to be no problem at all

demenoss · September 2021

armadeonx said:
If they are going to persist with changing the effects of guild boon structures they need to either make them a LOT cheaper or allow all boon plots to be built simultaneously. Having to tear one down to put up another is a huge cost and inconvenience to players.

I always thought you should get back a portion (25-50%) of the cost of a structure when you tear it down.

kemnimtarkas · September 2021

arkhadiam#2543 said:
Well, ir u see ir useless, just pick other boon. Dunno, u really dont need since there is a healer in the group.

I think the point is that getting those boons built up requires massive investments in time/labor/materials by the entire guild.

To just flippantly change/minimize the hard earned stats without notice or apparent compensation for the loss of stats on the affected guilds is extraordinarily tone-deaf on the part of the devs.

Especially considering how remarkably unconcerned they have been about the state of guilds in general for the past 3 or so years.

mparcher · September 2021

This boon was either ninja nerfed or is broken. Can someone (community manager) clarify which? Its really affecting our runs with it being broken. Hopefully it gets fixed.

greywynd · September 2021

rockster#6227 said:
Or they could compensate those guilds who feel they have been ripped off and wasted all those resources and all that time by organizing a straight swap to another type of structure of the same rank nominated by that guild as an "I'm sorry".

That's covered in the ToS under the "we can change whatever we want whenever we want" clause.

xenocide#6577 said:
Thats odd. They have told the community that they were unable to rework strongholds because the original person who designed them left and their current staff did not know how to add on to it.

However making nerfs to things in the stronghold such as foods and boons seems to be no problem at all

Changes to the stronghold map is one thing. Changes to items is quite another.

Unknown · September 2021

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armadeonx · September 2021

@arkhadiam#2543

I don't agree with that assessment. To my mind we're not talking about something that takes an individual a few weeks of effort or spending a few million AD on the AH.

A boon structure is a long term investment for an entire guild and there is no bigger complaint from any player base than for something that took a long time & a lot of expense to obtain gets nerfed into being pointless - that's the case in all games and has a serious impact on player trust.

Of course the company sometimes wants to 'rebalance' things by making adjustments, but the sensible path is to ensure large investments are not totally wasted. Cryptic have recognised this in the past by offering 'buy back' options, but to my mind a more obvious approach on this subject would be to remove the boon structure limit, allowing guilds to build all of them. Especially as (after years of not touching them at all) they have now made major adjustments to the majority of guild boons.

By permitting the building of all structures, it would future-proof guilds against other future changes. E.g. a structure may go from being decent - to useless - to must have, and no guild wants to build/destroy/rebuild something that takes that amount of investment. If, after an update, a different boon becomes more desirable, the guild can build that new structure but leave the old one in place. It broadens their options and covers them if in the future the old boon is updated again and becomes better.

zorro1267 · September 2021

arkhadiam#2543 said:
I don't share the complaint ... it was a poorly designed boon that made healers irrelevant. Also, apart from the HC VoS it has almost no utility.

And if the complaint is the investment made to obtain it .... dunno, welcome to NW. You must get over it.
I mean ... a lot of us invested in a Bronzewood and got nerfed. In this last year many have invested in their r15s (especially in utility slots), and have had to change them several times ... Others invested a lot in mirage and nerfed them ...

Assume that you are in an MMORPG game that will always be subject to buffs / nerfs ... so assuming, and even demanding compensation for the investment made is silly.

To be honest, the only ones I've seen complain about this change are healers who liked to play chill / AFK and the kamikazes who saved a fortune on Health stones because they had the potis of the rest. For the rest, we have not even noticed the change.

Do customers have the right to complain about anything, in your mind, or should we shut up and get ripped off like the "good little suckers" we are? After all, it's the customer's fault they got ripped off, not the company's fault, right?

If no one complains about companies ripping people off, that only emboldens the company to rip people off even more. Some people (not me) actually spent money on this game only to have the items they bought nerfed into the ground. Are you saying that is ok? How would you feel about a non-game company pulling the kind of stuff that Cryptic does? Is it always the customer's fault for getting ripped off, or is it occasionally the company's fault?

silente07 · September 2021

> @arkhadiam#2543 said:
> I don't share the complaint ... it was a poorly designed boon that made healers irrelevant. Also, apart from the HC VoS it has almost no utility.
>
> And if the complaint is the investment made to obtain it .... dunno, welcome to NW. You must get over it.
> I mean ... a lot of us invested in a Bronzewood and got nerfed. In this last year many have invested in their r15s (especially in utility slots), and have had to change them several times ... Others invested a lot in mirage and nerfed them ...
>
> Assume that you are in an MMORPG game that will always be subject to buffs / nerfs ... so assuming, and even demanding compensation for the investment made is silly.
>
> To be honest, the only ones I've seen complain about this change are healers who liked to play chill / AFK and the kamikazes who saved a fortune on Health stones because they had the potis of the rest. For the rest, we have not even noticed the change.

No
Not “getting over it”
the most useless condescending ignorant advice highlighted by
Your false equivalence of enchants vs boons and shows you have never raised any structures for guilds.

Currently just for a level 6 structure we need 145k dark gifts. And145k frozen
That’s to get it to 6
For ONE support structure.

You need 9 at 6 to raise the guild.

Vouchers are now prohibitively expensive.

The grind harder because no one wants to be in a guild not level 20.

xenocide · September 2021

To upgrade the Temple to rank 10 costs
1,300,000 Influence (3250 days @ 400/day)
14,600,000 Astral Diamonds
51,300 Adventure shards (2565 days @ 20/day)
5,690 Gold

As well as the Surplus equipment, gems, campaign currency, ect.

This is alot of time and resources that people worked hard to build. Cryptic Studios feels like that bully at the beach that comes along and steps on your kids sandcastle just because.

Even a little bit of communication about the changes to guild boons would have been appreciated.

Unknown · September 2021

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armadeonx · September 2021

I don't believe the game should be restricted to the mainly older guilds that 'got in there first'. I believe there should always be room for new players to form their own and do things how they like without such a massive workload to get on an equal footing with those that have been around for +5 yrs.

I'm saying this as someone who put a huge amount of personal effort into levelling up two guilds to GH20, firstly when Strongholds came out and then about a year after the Alliances release.

The game constantly needs new blood and that new blood shouldn't be beholden to the old guard guilds.

I am personally of the opinion that guild levelling now warrants being made significantly easier and have reduced restrictions on structures, especially since Cryptic have massively reduced the value and relevance of guild boons to a player's overall stats. Back when Strongholds came out, 8k Power/Defence etc used to be a huge deal and made up a very large proportion of a players capability - typically 40% of a stat, whereas these days it's literally 3% to any stat. Trying to motivate new players to work their behinds off for such little reward is now pointless and Cryptic need to adjust the costs to match the massive drop in rewards if they are to motivate these new players into making the game their own.

zorro1267 · September 2021

@zorro1267#1300
You have the right to complain, I have the right to say that the complaint is absurd or not.
And... yes, it is objectively your fault if you misinvest your money.

So basically what you are saying is that the corporate world can do no wrong. It's always the customer's fault for getting screwed. That sounds like the words of a person who screws a lot of people over and is trying to justify his behavior by blaming the victim.

silente07 · September 2021

>
> @silente07#2597
> In short, you complain that NW is ridiculously expensive .... dunno, welcome to NW again.
> Maxing a guild is supposed to be a long-term job involving a significant number of players. If the idea is to want to do it between 4-5 colleagues or something like that... well, good luck.
> And obviously everyone wants to be in a GH20 without having to grind it ... but that is logical with the absurd number of GH20 that there are. If you go to PE you can see a lot of GH20 spamming that recruit members.

Oh gosh your guild finished leveling before ANY of the massive changes were made and it was easy.

You make many assumptions and at this point it’s just trolling ignorance.

Guild system needs fixed and to change two boon plots now is egregious on Cryptics part.

Xneno’s numbers are spot on and shows again you have no idea what you’re talking about.
You don’t own a guild and could care less about the process, why are you even bothering to comment other than to troll.

Unknown · September 2021

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armadeonx · September 2021

The zero interest in levelling up a guild now comes from the cost to reward ratio as I previously mentioned. Guild boons of 3% Power etc are simply not worth the current cost. A player can get better stats from a single companion.

silente07 · September 2021

Yes, for some, the extra item level is actually a detriment, since the boons arnt worth as much as they used to

stark760 · September 2021

arkhadiam#2543 said:
I don't share the complaint ... it was a poorly designed boon that made healers irrelevant. Also, apart from the HC VoS it has almost no utility.

And if the complaint is the investment made to obtain it .... dunno, welcome to NW. You must get over it.
I mean ... a lot of us invested in a Bronzewood and got nerfed. In this last year many have invested in their r15s (especially in utility slots), and have had to change them several times ... Others invested a lot in mirage and nerfed them ...

Assume that you are in an MMORPG game that will always be subject to buffs / nerfs ... so assuming, and even demanding compensation for the investment made is silly.

To be honest, the only ones I've seen complain about this change are healers who liked to play chill / AFK and the kamikazes who saved a fortune on Health stones because they had the potis of the rest. For the rest, we have not even noticed the change.

Speak for yourself, don't group people into your "I'm right, you're wrong, deal with it, everyone agrees with me except you".

tchefi · September 2021

I think the "fair" solution to that would not be to allow guilds to build each single boon building. I kind of feel like having to choose which boons the guild can provide and which boons it won't is one of the very few important collective decisions and talks a guild leader and his officers/guildies have to debate. And debating for your community is good in terms of collective involvement.

Devs nerfing to the ground a guild boon is currently a bad gesture considering how much effort a collectivity has to bring in order to level up a boon building all the way up to level 10. But switching from a building to another shouldn't be completely free either.

Maybe the solution is not a refund of part of the cost of a building upon destroying it (because of max capacity in the mimic), but simply allowing guilds to transform a building into another of the same level only repaying the cost of that level. Not destroying the building, nor pay the cumulated cost and building time of every single levels for the new one.
For exemple you want to get rid of your level 9 casern to get a stable instead : you get to pay the cost of the level 9 stable, hit the "transform" button, and at the end of the build time the casern is immediately replaced by the stable level 9.

stark760 · September 2021

tchefi#6735 said:
I think the "fair" solution to that would not be to allow guilds to build each single boon building. I kind of feel like having to choose which boons the guild can provide and which boons it won't is one of the very few important collective decisions and talks a guild leader and his officers/guildies have to debate. And debating for your community is good in terms of collective involvement.

Devs nerfing to the ground a guild boon is currently a bad gesture considering how much effort a collectivity has to bring in order to level up a boon building all the way up to level 10. But switching from a building to another shouldn't be completely free either.

Maybe the solution is not a refund of part of the cost of a building upon destroying it (because of max capacity in the mimic), but simply allowing guilds to transform a building into another of the same level only repaying the cost of that level. Not destroying the building, nor pay the cumulated cost and building time of every single levels for the new one.
For exemple you want to get rid of your level 9 casern to get a stable instead : you get to pay the cost of the level 9 stable, hit the "transform" button, and at the end of the build time the casern is immediately replaced by the stable level 9.

Before they changed values, people looked at what the guild boons did and chose 4 out of the 7 structures, and took months/years to max everything. Altering the values or what the boon did altogether, means guilds choices were meaningless.

tchefi · September 2021

stark760 said:

tchefi#6735 said:
I think the "fair" solution to that would not be to allow guilds to build each single boon building. I kind of feel like having to choose which boons the guild can provide and which boons it won't is one of the very few important collective decisions and talks a guild leader and his officers/guildies have to debate. And debating for your community is good in terms of collective involvement.

Devs nerfing to the ground a guild boon is currently a bad gesture considering how much effort a collectivity has to bring in order to level up a boon building all the way up to level 10. But switching from a building to another shouldn't be completely free either.

Maybe the solution is not a refund of part of the cost of a building upon destroying it (because of max capacity in the mimic), but simply allowing guilds to transform a building into another of the same level only repaying the cost of that level. Not destroying the building, nor pay the cumulated cost and building time of every single levels for the new one.
For exemple you want to get rid of your level 9 casern to get a stable instead : you get to pay the cost of the level 9 stable, hit the "transform" button, and at the end of the build time the casern is immediately replaced by the stable level 9.

Before they changed values, people looked at what the guild boons did and chose 4 out of the 7 structures, and took months/years to max everything. Altering the values or what the boon did altogether, means guilds choices were meaningless.

Thanks. That's your opinion (probably shared by many, i have to admit ^^).

I joined a GH3 some weeks after starting the game, and during 3 years and 7 months I helped maxing it out, being 2nd in total contributions (only behind the guildowner).
We debated a lot about the boons. We saw devs making some changes on them (like the revive sickness boon going from reducing the duration of the malus to reducing the %malus, or like anything that has to do with lifesteal).
After the guild was maxed out, I ended up taking the co-leadership (rank7) of our alliance's motherguild + got involved in another GH18 guild to help them finishing what was left (maxed it out some 4 months ago). I'm also casually leveling up my personal guild all alone (for the challenge ^^, and it's on the way to GH6 today).

Is the decision and efforts about a boon taken months/years ago were meaningless because devs have then altered/changed the bonus ?
The guild profited from it during an extended period of time, but sure, it was meaningless. After all, my overall personnal opinion is : whatever i got in the game is meaningless except the bonds and friendships i made with some other players.
Whatever the devs will change, I will adapt as long as there are players I enjoy talking and playing with.
If a change needs a collective effort to adapt, i will then organize for, gather, motivate and stimulate guildmembers to play together for that, and turn the situation into enjoyable guild events/sessions together.

That's my peculiar nature, my MMO player philosophy. I can play any MMORPG and enjoy it : it will never be because of the game in itself, but because of the players i meet and play with. For the rest : i can adapt.

But I can understand such a change can be felt to be a hard pill to swallow ^^.

Unknown · September 2021

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kalina311 · September 2021

reapermanaus#2689 said:
Why was it nerfed, well from what I just read it was nerfed because people no longer bought with Zen any Health Stones, now they have too, its as simple as that, the will always screw us over for profit, I see that this game will soon die and instead of throwing good money after bad I think it is time to stop buying Zen.

With that said if more come to this conclusion the game is doomed, but after all the real world cash I have already spent just to watch what I had spent it on become worth less and less I can not in good conscience keep spending money on items/packs that can in the next breathe become useless or next to.

You can not just keep making what people have spent time and money on worth less than it was worth when you spent money on it and still expect people to keep spending money on more. You are destroying your own way of making money by continuously moving the bar.

"Why was it nerfed, well from what I just read it was nerfed because people no longer bought with Zen any Health Stones,
"

where did you read this LOL? no one in thier right mind was buying health stones with zen before or now even after the changes ..omg LOL i mean you can purchase them low cost with trade bars and plenty of events and other promotions offer them for free and you can outright buy them off the auction house for regular astral diamonds ..no Wallet or zen involved

thats like saying they did /should/could / nerf refinement points drops/boons/companions etc or sources of it so they can sell more blood rubies in the zen market...:D it certainly did not increase sales in the past and did not result in more blood ruby sales cause they are a bad deal period

just like buying health stones in the zen market are a bad deal and are only there for a impulse purchase to hamster someone over that does not know what they are doing yet and does not even know to apply coupons on things either
and has no friends and no guild yet to advise them on what to purchase

the motivation to alter the boon was to make healer more relevant and to bring it in line with out sources of incoming and outgoing healing same for tactical enchantment with incoming healing . ..same for the guild xp boon and utilty xp boon that were also adjusted for all classes and companion accors the board to limit power creap at the expense of readjusting / nerfing everything ..
\
therefore i conclude that altering the guild healing potion boon had nothing to do with driving zen market sales for health stones

kalina311 · September 2021

@reapermanaus#2689
oh what's this yet another health stone source not requiring zen or waiting on ad backlog this will surely drive more sales for health stone in the zen store../lol NOT further supporting my above post even more ..

https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/11499193

surly once a new player has a taste of the health stone they will be running back to their Cryptic zen store "dealer: right ? cause they will be hocked

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Why Was The Stronghold Potion Boon Nerfed From 75% to 10%?

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