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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › General Discussion (PC)
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HC - But with Die into Normal Mode

oktlryk#2717 oktlryk
oktlryk#2717
 Member Posts: 149 Arc User
in General Discussion (PC)
Hi everyone! I was just thinking - as I was farming the boss 1 - and I stumbled across the part when you reset (defeat), the invisible wall from normal becomes active around the waterfall - which got me thinking - why not - since the VoS HC is a huge and demanding run and can be like a 100% loss in a very deep part of the run - have a feature in HC where you get to die and go back into normal mode!

That way you could be very far into the run die and the resume a normal run instead of loosing everything on the run! Which I think is psychologically more intelligent then just die + all is lost! Which can be pretty grueling right?! LoL! Thanks for the time.

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    kharkov58kharkov58 Member Posts: 668 Arc User
    Hard core is supposed to be a high risk decision. What you are suggesting is reducing the risk. Of course, maybe that reduced risk would better match the rewards.
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    wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User
    Neverwinters take on Hardcore mode is already far too forgiving, making it even “softer” would ruin all the fun. Proper hardcore modes do not simply make the player restart the run upon failure, it wipes the character. I vote for a perma-death mode.
    Elite Whaleboy
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    armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    wilbur626 said:

    Neverwinters take on Hardcore mode is already far too forgiving, making it even “softer” would ruin all the fun. Proper hardcore modes do not simply make the player restart the run upon failure, it wipes the character. I vote for a perma-death mode.

    I can't see anyone running a dungeon that'd wipe your entire character for dying :#
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    greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,096 Arc User
    Only game I knew did that was Diablo II.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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    wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    Only game I knew did that was Diablo II.

    Path of Exile, Diablo II, Diablo III, Minecraft, Terraria, Torchlight II, Sacred, Sacred 2, Star Wars : Galaxies and Fire Emblem all have/had their versions of perma death.
    Elite Whaleboy
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    oktlryk#2717 oktlryk
    oktlryk#2717
         Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    Well, it's rewards vs diff right - isn't it fair that the normal progression is reinstated? you'll still get the regular rewards from normal VoS! LoL! Anyway if you guys think that HC is that popular, I can't argue with you! It's only a suggestion about the follow through from HC defeat. It's not a big deal to resume at normal FY!
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    wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User
    oktlryk#2717 said:

    Well, it's rewards vs diff right - isn't it fair that the normal progression is reinstated? you'll still get the regular rewards from normal VoS! LoL! Anyway if you guys think that HC is that popular, I can't argue with you! It's only a suggestion about the follow through from HC defeat. It's not a big deal to resume at normal FY!

    Having players simply continue a HC run in normal mode after failure would mean there would be no reason at all for anyone to NOT run HC ? This would remove any resemblance of risk tied to HC mode.
    Elite Whaleboy
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    jules#6770 jules
    jules#6770
         Member Posts: 709 Arc User
    edited July 2021
    You mean, except for the higher reward pool necessary to justify hc? After failing a HC run all you would "keep" is the time spent on it
    Post edited by jules#6770 on
    - bye bye -
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    organius#4038 organius
    organius#4038
         Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    wilbur626 said:

    greywynd said:

    Only game I knew did that was Diablo II.

    Path of Exile, Diablo II, Diablo III, Minecraft, Terraria, Torchlight II, Sacred, Sacred 2, Star Wars : Galaxies and Fire Emblem all have/had their versions of perma death.
    1. PoE,Diablo 2 and 3,Torchlight 2,Sacred and 2 is ARPG and Sacred 1 or Underworld do not have perma death.
    2. Minecraft and Terraria singleplayer.In minecraft you can copy your hardcore safe,so not a permadeath at all.
    3. Star Wars Galaxies is mmo,but the response to this idea was pretty much “Permadeath?!?” And so Hardcore mode never happened.Only idea.
    4. Fire emblem is tactical role-playing game,turn-based strategy.And it is singleplayer game,not mmorpg.
    What did you expect from permadeath in neverwinter?I see only Pay to Win
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    organius#4038 organius
    organius#4038
         Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited July 2021
    And there are no good rewards in the hardcore VoS.Rewards in the normal VoS and hardcore are the same.Rings of air and darkness is not even close to by a good reward.100% guaranteed random legendary companions and mounts in the chest,then it would be worth to do hard VoS run.
    What is the difference between the tower of Valindra and the vault of stars? Rings and AD. Otherwise, everything is the same. Why would I waste my time on a hard version of a dungeon,if the rewards is no different. There are problems in neverwinter, there are a lot of problems and this is just one of them.
    Post edited by organius#4038 on
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    greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,096 Arc User
    Diablo II HC deleted the character info. All you had left was the name.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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    wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User
    > @organius#4038 said:
    > And there are no good rewards in the hardcore VoS.Rewards in the normal VoS and hardcore are the same.Rings of air and darkness is not even close to by a good reward.100% guaranteed random legendary companions and mounts in the chest,then it would be worth to do hard VoS run.
    > What is the difference between the tower of Valindra and the vault of stars? Rings and AD. Otherwise, everything is the same. Why would I waste my time on a hard version of a dungeon,if the rewards is no different. There are problems in neverwinter, there are a lot of problems and this is just one of them.

    You need to take a better look at the HC VoS rewards 😂
    Elite Whaleboy
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    wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User
    > @organius#4038 said:
    > * PoE,Diablo 2 and 3,Torchlight 2,Sacred and 2 is ARPG and Sacred 1 or Underworld do not have perma death.
    >
    > * Minecraft and Terraria singleplayer.In minecraft you can copy your hardcore safe,so not a permadeath at all.
    >
    > * Star Wars Galaxies is mmo,but the response to this idea was pretty much “Permadeath?!?” And so Hardcore mode never happened.Only idea.
    >
    > * Fire emblem is tactical role-playing game,turn-based strategy.And it is singleplayer game,not mmorpg.
    >
    >
    > What did you expect from permadeath in neverwinter?I see only Pay to Win

    How does perma-death equal pay-to-win?
    Elite Whaleboy
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    organius#4038 organius
    organius#4038
         Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited July 2021
    wilbur626 said:

    > @organius#4038 said:
    > * PoE,Diablo 2 and 3,Torchlight 2,Sacred and 2 is ARPG and Sacred 1 or Underworld do not have perma death.
    >
    > * Minecraft and Terraria singleplayer.In minecraft you can copy your hardcore safe,so not a permadeath at all.
    >
    > * Star Wars Galaxies is mmo,but the response to this idea was pretty much “Permadeath?!?” And so Hardcore mode never happened.Only idea.
    >
    > * Fire emblem is tactical role-playing game,turn-based strategy.And it is singleplayer game,not mmorpg.
    >
    >
    > What did you expect from permadeath in neverwinter?I see only Pay to Win

    How does perma-death equal pay-to-win?

    What you gonna do after permadeath?Create new one,upgrade all gears,companions and mounts again.Permadeath means that the system will delete your character and all the items.

    Post edited by organius#4038 on
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    wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User
    > @organius#4038 said:
    > What you gonna do after permadeath?Create new one and upgrade all gear and companions,mounts again.Permadeath means that the system will delete your character and all the items.

    Yes
    Elite Whaleboy
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    rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,405 Arc User
    edited July 2021
    wilbur626 said:

    Fire Emblem all have/had their versions of perma death.

    Except that Fire Emblem permadeath just devolves into "reset on player unit/green unit death" unless you purposely impose ironman rules on yourself.

    Yes, the punishment is re-doing the entire chapter, but that ends up resulting in more busywork in re-doing the parts of your strategy that worked, than it does in challenge.


    Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of the harder difficulty mode giving better rewards/access to new fights.
    But NW's Hardcore Dungeon run isn't hard mode where the overall strategies you use are changed, it's more "pray you don't get screwed by RNG or the instance gets shut down".

    Also, you forgot to add XCOM to the list of permadeath games. There's no shame in using rookies as Tactical Ablative Armor...

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    wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User
    edited July 2021
    > @rjc9000 said:
    > Except that Fire Emblem permadeath just devolves into "reset on player unit/green unit death" unless you purposely impose ironman rules on yourself.
    >
    > Yes, the punishment is re-doing the entire chapter, but that ends up resulting in more busywork in re-doing the parts of your strategy that worked, than it does in challenge.
    >
    > Also, you forgot to add XCOM to the list of permadeath games. There's no shame in using rookies as Tactical Ablative Armor...

    Neverwinter HC rules should be like Ironman rules in Fire Emblem. I would be ok with players dying in HC having their toons changed to normal mode only toons (no HC ever again. Never ever). This would ofc require implementation of item degradation adding considerable AD cost to repairing items ruined in HC death.
    Elite Whaleboy
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    oktlryk#2717 oktlryk
    oktlryk#2717
         Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    Well it is that there's that type of HC and the type I was suggesting. It's just different versions of HC - and the logic for my argument is that when you die the part where you are eligible for the additional rewards is canceled or void. Then you resume normal with normal rewards. It's HC, just a different type of concept of HC.
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    wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User
    > @oktlryk#2717 said:
    > Well it is that there's that type of HC and the type I was suggesting. It's just different versions of HC - and the logic for my argument is that when you die the part where you are eligible for the additional rewards is canceled or void. Then you resume normal with normal rewards. It's HC, just a different type of concept of HC.

    Why would anyone NOT run HC in your suggested HC system?
    Elite Whaleboy
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    plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,231 Arc User
    edited July 2021
    wilbur626 said:

    > @oktlryk#2717 said:
    > Well it is that there's that type of HC and the type I was suggesting. It's just different versions of HC - and the logic for my argument is that when you die the part where you are eligible for the additional rewards is canceled or void. Then you resume normal with normal rewards. It's HC, just a different type of concept of HC.

    Why would anyone NOT run HC in your suggested HC system?

    Exactly. That means nobody will run normal. May as well just remove normal.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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    oktlryk#2717 oktlryk
    oktlryk#2717
         Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    RIght. Well it's just an alternative type of HC - not very popular from what you guys have posted - LoL! - Anyway, GL - and hopefully everyone manages the rings and the full HC and whatever not! L8ER!
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