Bring back the spirit of old classes.

lunartic666 · June 2021

Currently we have classes that don't differ too much cause all using low magnitudes att-will powers, average magnitude encounters and high magnitude daily that smoetimes proc things sometimes not. What i want, is to make classes more self buff dependant, and make each class buff in different way. Of course self buffs mean more dmg, thats why i want to lower magnitudes of daily and encounter powers and slightly buff at-will dmg and ap gain. Here are few examples how classes could buff themselves:
-hunter (aka trapper) dmg comes mostly from high recharge rate of encounter powers with atwills buff utilities like movement speed, stamina gain, ap gain,
-warden (aka combat) dmg comes from encounter powers buffing at-wills (almost there),
-assassin - high ap gain, dmg comes from daily powers buffing passives that boost encounter and atwill powers,
-blademaster (aka destroyer) dmg comes from encounter powers buffing encounter, at-will and daily powers.
etc, etc, etc.
I think this should work now cause we have absolutely no powercreep thanks to stat caps, and the average buffs we have are amount of 5-10%.
The changes of mod 16 (disaster) happened to bring simplicity and balance to game, the resoults we can see - classes aren't balanced and aren't fun at all. So with the changes bring back fun at least, cause the classes never gonna be balanced.
Thanks for reading and sorry for my english.

sagakaiyume · June 2021

We already have stuff like that, for example fighter dps at will buffs overall damage + aoe encounter damage, commander's increasing overall + mowdown..this really isn't any different from what we've got. Ranger spec has multiple of these too as is. Rogue I'm unsure of but its likely everyone has it.

As for at-will damage, Rogue bleed and poison comes from main at will doing bulk of their dps, Fighter a good portion comes from their heavy slash, brash strike for barb ect. Wizard and warlock at wills are outliers, but with bard coming changes are unlikely to be happening.

flyball · June 2021

rogues have there abilities that work in combo to proc others....POB, Smoke Bomb stealth then assassinate does a ton of damage as a result of the smoke bomb stun and stealths proc to CA....add to that bonuses from the lostmouth set, and decanter atrophal essence and damage racks up quickly. For really over the top procs also add the mirage set.

rangers get procs from changing stances and essentially have double the encounter powers as everyone else, Hunter types have a careful rotation to keep all of this going. I tend to start with a strong rooting shot, switch stance and root swing, the blade swing that comes with the knee shot, change stance, aimed shot or multishot until rooting shot available....almost never use my daily powers Still looking to complete artifact set (need the construction cable) and would be nice to add the mirage set here as well.

There are also items and mount collar bolsters that proc at wills encounters and dailies.

yes I know skill names are not properly named but you can figure out by what they do for both.

NOt sure about wiz and warlock in terms of powers boosting other abilities but it would be consistent with other classes

bifflinculte · June 2021

and fix the wizard (the upside down purple triangle with a sandglass inside).

The sandglass represents the long cooldowns as well as the patience of wizards.

boxcarr · June 2021

👍

rjc9000 · June 2021

sagakaiyume#0847 said:
We already have stuff like that, for example fighter dps at will buffs overall damage + aoe encounter damage, commander's increasing overall + mowdown..this really isn't any different from what we've got. Ranger spec has multiple of these too as is. Rogue I'm unsure of but its likely everyone has it.

The Heavy Slash buff has a duration of 12 seconds, is tied to a power that's relatively spammable, and is only a 5% buff. It is a numerical boost to your damage, but is very small and just runs in the background since players don't really need to work for it.

Prepared Slam has something interesting in the form of consuming the Heavy Slash buff, but then you run back into the issue that the Heavy Slash buff isn't hard to get.

You don't need to use Commander's Strike to get the benefits of Striker's Mark, you can just leech off of the Barbarian Tank's Disarming Takedown, Ranger's Commanding Shot/Thorn Ward, and/or the Rogue's Wicked Reminder. Also, the feat itself encourages people to use the numerically bad Commander's Strike for a weak debuff and a 400 magnitude encounter power with a 45 second cooldown.

It is not an exaggeration that, in PVE at least, you can devolve every non Arbiter DPS class rotation into "fire off all your encounter powers, hold down your at-will button until your encounters come back, and when you have full Action Points press daily for big damage."

sagakaiyume#0847 said:

Wizard and warlock at wills are outliers

Wizard is neutered because it carries the remnants of the Proc Wizard of days past, which had low base damage but rapid hits and tons of self buffs. The idea there was your powers individually did not deal great damage (except Ice Knife and Disintegrate), you would use them to buff up and fish for procs.

Except, that in Mod 16, noworries took out the self buffs and procs, leaving the "Wizard" with non-existent base damage and long cooldowns.

Scourge Warlock was similar to the old Control Wizard, but more focused on damage over time rather than procs. Scourge Warlock At-wills were there to gather Soul Sparks and/or to place self buffs like Lesser Curse.

In the transition through Mod 16 and after some buffs, Warlock is Wizard but not as neutered: Warlocks have self buffs, procs, cooldown reductions, and encounters with actual base damage.

sagakaiyume#0847 said:

As for at-will damage, Rogue bleed and poison comes from main at will doing bulk of their dps, Fighter a good portion comes from their heavy slash, brash strike for barb ect. Wizard and warlock at wills are outliers, but with bard coming changes are unlikely to be happening.

You're proving the original poster's point in that every class conceptually plays the same.

Once you've placed your 10 stacks of Duelist Flurry Bleed, you hold down Gloaming Cut until your bleeds run out/your encounters come back.

Once the Barbarian fires off all their encounters, they just activate Rage and hold down Rage Brash Strike. Though this one *is* in flavor for Barbarians to be an angry, non thinking, melee character.

Goofy Fighter is basically Barbarian, but you don't even need to press any extra buttons before holding down the At-will button.

hadestemplar · June 2021

rjc9000 said:

Scourge Warlock was similar to the old Control Wizard, but more focused on damage over time rather than procs. Scourge Warlock At-wills were there to gather Soul Sparks and/or to place self buffs like Lesser Curse.
a buttons before holding down the At-will button.

Correction:
Your non curse consume/synergy encounters apply curse or if you using Class Feature: All Consuming Curse your at wills will do apply Curse.

And it's not selfbuff, it's debuff. The difference between them is that, if you proc selfbuff it gives you it's effect regardless if you fight same or new enemy/creature..
Debuffs, mean you have to apply to each new enemy, or it will not work.

THe warlocks only selffbuf or something like it are:

Soul Sparks: increase your damage by 0.25% per each spark, max 30 sparks so 7.5% dmg increase..

Executioner gift: increase your damage up to 10% based on HP difference between you and your target: Demon lord/Sparky Star set mechanic.

And risky investment: 4% dmg increase when you summon soul wraith/puppet. Which stack: x5 times, thats lead 25% dmg increase for encounters.. And it's last ~20s ( though you proc x5, once cool down ends you have to proc them all again).

The ways to summon Soul Puppet and proc RI are:

Enounters: Killing flames Curse consume - You need land finishing blow and kill target.

Hadar Grasp Curse Consume effect: Use Hadar Grasp encounter on cursed target, consume Curse and summon Soul Puppet.

Class feat: Dark Prayer - when cursed target got killed you summon soul puppet.
For both encounters and class feature to work you must firstly apply Curse debuff.

Feat: Power of nine H3lls - Encounters with no Curse Consume/synergy effects summon Soul Puppet.
The encounters are : Hellfire ring, Fiery bolt, Arm of Hadar, Infernal Sphere.
Yet this feat seems have 1 or 2 s cool down.. Cuz if you use FIery bolt and then arm of Hadar, it will proc RI once..

When comes at will, Hellish rebuke can be used for single target fights for extra dmg, while Eldritch Blast can be used as tool to spread curses ( If used All Consuming Curse Class feature). Yet Eldritch Blast's only AoE is third hit and it's radius is very small compared to other classes at wills.

Bring back the spirit of old classes.

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