please devs, quality of pvp matches going down even more, time to care pvp before nw pvp is gone?

xvimn134 · April 2021

Currently many more good players stopped pvp because devs has stopped fixing pvp bugs/caring pvp for almost one whole mod. There is almost 0 response about pvp stuff from devs here for the past several pvp seasons. Due to this the match quality is going down even more. PVP match right now is like a gamble. Whichever team that can get most players who can make full use of broken stuff and less 20k troll alts win. Time to fix it before all good players leave. Last hope. Finger crossed.

The following is list of most obvious bug/broken mechanisms/stuff that affects pvp

*1. fix deflect, crit, CA formula. Players should not take more damage when deflect, or deal less damage when crit or with CA in any circumstance. Counter stats is to counter other's stats not to give additional benefit.
*2. give more resources or increase effectiveness of deflect severity, crit severity, combat advantage in pvp. Currently everyone has low deflect severity and there is no way to stack it high enough to counter accuracy. Crit severity and CA is also too low compared with crit avoidance and awareness, class like CW/SW that relied on CA have to give up CA mechanism completely in pvp. Buff crit severity and CA so players will still deal good damage after fixing other broken mechanisms.
*3. remove item level bonus from all companion stuff (active companion, overall bolster, companion gears, runestones, companion buff)
*4. nerf healer significantly especially dc and sw. Nerf healing resources, like self heal mount power which are bugged (100% hp), pve lingering medicine boon which heals 100%+ hp, drowned weapon which heals 50% hp.
*5. fix matching algorithm and disable paragon swap inside pvp map. For healers, they should be devided evenly for each team. (0:0. 1:1. 2:1. 2:2) Matches where one team has healer while the other team has none is extremely unbalanced. We would rather wait longer in queue instead of doing such unbalanced matches.
*6. nerf single target mount power 3k magnitude is way too high (currently can still do 800k+ damage)
*7. nerf mirage weapon. Damage from mobs is too high and mobs make people unable to target players (30 mobs when 5v5 all using mirage weapon)
*8. set restrictions to prevent troll alts from entering pvp queue or encourage them to gear up. Currently many player enter with 20k-30k alts to farm rewards and they significantly drag down the pvp quality.
*9. healer who use soulforge should not be immune to damage after they use any healing power

10. fix or remove shadowclad. People take more damge when deflect due to deflect severity formula which makes it totally useless, players who are not aware and still run it take much more damage in pvp.
11. fix daze power. all daze ignores your dodge (unless you are sw/barb). Most dot damage is also undogable if applied with daze power. Also sw daily Brood of Hadar and artifact halaster ignore cc stacks and elven completely.

@noworries#8859

sniper007842 · April 2021

i agree healers are op and kinda ruins the fun

fuxion · April 2021

I agree with all of the above ... we are not asking much and i really feel pvp deserves some attention as for a very long time pvp has been neglected ... we still play this game and have not left like many others and believe one day we might get the few changes we have begged for.

I will just add 2 requests to this and that is a rework of the match making system (2 cleric in one team when other team has none should never be allowed especially now having a cleric is so OP and very unbalanced if only 1 team has)

Also please add a Duel Queue - Many players even pve stated that they will definitely do alot more pvp if they could go with a friend.

If the points mentioned above can be implemented pvp will be in the best state its ever been

@ xvimn134 : Thanks for posting this - im sure every regular pvp player agrees with you on all of these.

We are all holding thumbs and hoping like we have for many years.

thebenetrator · April 2021

Thank you to cryptic for making the rewards much better and appropriate for all the hard work PVP players put in

i dont know much about bugs but im all for fixing the ones mentioned above if they are true

I just play for fun and PVP issues have been the same for YEARS, its a shame because PVP can be very entertaining to watch and cryptic can make a lot of money streaming, hosting, replaying, running ads on matches on an official youtube channel

It needs a better system especially match making & make people play against others of their level

lugiary · April 2021

u right something wrong with this part of the game like, all the changes in this game what you try to do, all errors go to pvp and impact pvp players. we understand that you want money make sure to fix the bugs known so that we can spend our money on your game.
in truth it's all about "MONEY" you don't have to lie ... and a whole bunch of people want to hit each other so to be smart for once.

PS : have alot money to spend on haha

maglor · April 2021

I Agree with all the points... i hope devs can check and correct this problems soon

magik · April 2021

I agree with xvimn134. Please fix it.

davilsliders · April 2021

Holy words:
1. dc healers and HR should be nerfed;
2. matchmaking is totally awful;
3. joining chicken pvp delete all progress in ranking score and
4. in general even new percent stats system is totally wrong, its unsensed forcing people to equip old items to have a better percent stat!!!
Devs pls do something.
TNX XVIMN

gweddry · April 2021

Going through the points:

No, I would personally not touch this. It would be nice to have it fixed because this doesn't really make sense, but I'm afraid that we would end up with players being way too tanky.
No, again rather not touch this for the same reason as the above. Also crit severity is already overcapped very easily.
Yes, this is very confusing to new players and makes no sense.
Yes absolutely, and add the providence mount power and possibly water wheel to the list.
Yes, but it's enough to disable role swaps, if that's an easier implementation. Also, matchmaking should prefer evenly distributed healers over more closely balanced elo.
Yes absolutely, but this must happen in tandem with healers and healing resources being nerfed.
Yes.
Yes, put in place a reasonable il requirement. Something like the newest pve dungeon could do (with companion contribution subtracted).
Yes.
Shadowclad will either be overpowered or useless, because it does too many things at once. It's a poor design for PvP balance so I'd rather it stayed useless.
Yes, but classes that rely on this for both survivability and damage (mostly just HR I guess) will need a buff along with that.

On top of this (and those are good suggestions) I would like to stress that one of the big problems in PvP, which is probably also the biggest long term issue, is solo queue. This is, in the background, what destroys player retention. This game has a big social aspect to it, and at the same time, it's not a competitive title, not an esport, it won't ever be. In PvE, players will run poor content (as in with no rewards, bugs etc.) only because they can play with friends. If they couldn't, like PvPers mostly can't, vast majority of them would be long gone. Whenever I asked PvE players or PvPers that have quit the game, this is what most say -- I'd go play PvP (again) if I could play with friends.

This would inevitably have an impact on match quality. I believe however that the tradeoff is very much worth it, especially since it's not exactly clear whether at all, and if so, then how exactly matchmaking works. (I looked at my match history and I noticed that in 21 consecutive matches, 12 of them had players with green gear on my team, 9 of them had no green geared players at all, and 0 of them had green geared players on the opposing team.) This is why I'd suggest changing solo queue to solo/duo, and it could be at first done via an event, just like solo queue before. Obviously it's ideal to have no restrictions on premade size like it used to be, but that can only work with a large enough playerbase, so again, I believe solo/duo is a compromise which allows one to play with friends, even if just one, while having a negligible negative impact on match quality. And with the earlier suggestions implemented, perhaps one day, PvP would once again be fit for a larger, or even unrestricted premade size. It is however important that queues are not separated (new ones are not added), as more queues will just thin the already small player pool.

Also note that along with other proposed changes, such as the il requirement (so that the power difference between teams will always be equal or lower than before) and healing resources nerf (so that damage dealt "sticks" even to the best geared PvPers, so that weaker players can't simply be shrugged off by the stronger ones), PvP will be in a better position to allow for duo queue.

trgluestickz · April 2021

I will just copy/paste my feedback below from when those suggestions were still in draft form. Though I did see the new suggestion about crit sev/CA getting increased, this may not be enough to offset the tankyness these changes would cause.

"That list of changes would result in players being insanely tanky again, probably even worse than it was 2 seasons ago. The devs have some other variables to juggle if they want to do some of those things on that list without making things worse.
if they want to nerf 3k mounts, fix the deflect/accuracy crit strike/crit avoid HAMSTER math, increase available sources of deflect sev, and remove companion item level, They will need to increase damage from player powers for most if not all classes and will probably require additional class and other adjustments as well.
The 3k mount power removal I personally wouldn't mind if they went ahead and did it even without immediate adjustments to player damage. It will put things out of balance temporarily but its absence would still leave the game playable and worth it long term.
-
and I 100% agree with razorleaf about the shadowclad, HAMSTER that enchantment, let it stay dead."

I will also add that I do believe it is worth it for the devs to fix the core issues brutal mentioned in that post. Even though it does mean they will have to change some additional variables to keep people from being too tanky and to balance classes.

xvimn134 · April 2021

they might need to increase damage a little bit after fixing the stats and 3k mount, but do not need too much buff if they can nerf healing.

Also the reason they need to fix deflect severty/accuracy is because only GF/HR has 10%+ more accuracy because of their forte. The 10% additional accuracy provides up to 50% extra damage (compared with base damage) when accuracy is close to cap. It gives too much advantage to these 2 classes that is why it needs an fast fix.

Also, good dps have around 60% CA in average if they wanna build it, enemy can build up to 40%+ crit awareness so CA gives like only 20% additional damage and sometimes it's better to just give it up to make room for other stats; good dps have around 80% crit severity in average and people can build up to 50% crit avoid easily. Before combat change crit gives 150% more damge now its 30% more damage. That is why most encounter/daily hit less damage after combat change, it is easy for them to fix, like making crit severity/CA 2x efficient in pvp or something like that.

I personally wanna see all class achieve more balance even that means some nerf of my main class

TR/barb/sw definitely need some buff even with these fix (although sw daily need to be nerfed)

trgluestickz · April 2021

xvimn134 said:
they might need to increase damage a little bit after fixing the stats and 3k mount, but do not need too much buff if they can nerf healing.

Also the reason they need to fix deflect severty/accuracy is because only GF/HR has 10%+ more accuracy because of their forte. The 10% additional accuracy provides up to 50% extra damage (compared with base damage) when accuracy is close to cap. It gives too much advantage to these 2 classes that is why it needs an fast fix.

Also, good dps have around 60% CA in average if they wanna build it, enemy can build up to 40%+ crit awareness; good dps have around 80% crit severity in average and people can build up to 50% crit avoid easily. That is why most encounter/daily hit less damage after combat change, it is easy for them to fix, like making crit severity/CA 2x efficient in pvp or something like that.

Under current low quality solo que conditions, it would be pretty hard to argue that ranger isn't OP. But finding ways to increase match quality would have to be included with any substantial PVP changes; either that or the changes themselves would have to have this effect. So do need to be careful not to overnerf classes that shine at the moment. Ranger is an amazing pug slayer that is cheep to get to a point where it is lethal, but they start to lose their potency when more good players are playing and the average skill of players in PVP is higher.

Some of the weaker classes like rogue also start to catch up in higher quality conditions, though will still have a high skill requirement to see this.

Fighter is more expensive both in terms of money and skill to get it to a lethal point, but it gets even more broken when you pass that point than anything a ranger could do, it also maintains its broken status when match quality is higher, though it is still at its most potent vs pugs.

If the devs do a decent job increasing player damage to balance your suggestions, then I have no problem with them.

modlesie · April 2021

Some of my old Video: about 6 years ago :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJMB9tEx3ck

Sorry but matchmaking will never be fixed, just like other things- especially now, when there are a few pvpers left. Devs never cared for pvp, and @xvimn134 I appreciate your trials in pvp topics- but as long as i can remember- they just never fixed things for pvp, not including those that made the game significantly impossible. Remember- they have no idea about their own game- especially PvP :>

BUT YES :P +1 FOR @xvimn134

hastur905 · April 2021

I am unsure whether anyone in here watches any of the Dev stream's, but they have said a while ago that they would not be looking at PVP for at least a year. At that time, that would have been late 2021 or 2022. Also, as evidenced by the some of the posts in here, PVP post generally call for nerfs of other classes. When they introduced Chicken PVP the idea was to see if there was any interest in PVP from the majority of the players currently playing the game, PVEers. Its easier to convert people already playing the game rather than finding a whole new playerbase. I have no insight whether this was successful or not, but ever since last year when it premiered the PVP community has pretty much bashed it, tell me I am wrong? I respect PVPers in their tenacity to tear down other classes, and find glitchy things in game, that give them the edge on the battlefield. @xvimn134 or pineapple is infamous for it, he was the one that discovered in Chicken PVP that you could have endless HP by eating a food before you went into a match. His use the OP sigil in PVP prompted the Devs to nerf it to useless in both PVE and PVP. He is a pillar in the PVP community, respected among his peers, he is a King in a shrinking kingdom. Some might say he does this to improve the experience, the Devs must be held accountable for the bugs and glitches. Others might say his actions have led to the failure of PVP, and why even new players wanting to try PVP don't.
Look at all the old posts from PVP players over the years, they have asked for the same things over and over, even when they get them they still ask for them. Even when the playerbase continues to falter it is still all the Devs fault. No new PVP area's (mod 17), poor rewards (mod 17), no new pvp gear (mod 17), need new seasons with rewards (mod 18), and the ever present nerf this class, nerf that artifact, nerf that weapon, nerf that ring, nerf nerf nerf. The only thing that hasn't changed is ....

xvimn134 · April 2021

hastur905 said:
I am unsure whether anyone in here watches any of the Dev stream's, but they have said a while ago that they would not be looking at PVP for at least a year. At that time, that would have been late 2021 or 2022. Also, as evidenced by the some of the posts in here, PVP post generally call for nerfs of other classes. When they introduced Chicken PVP the idea was to see if there was any interest in PVP from the majority of the players currently playing the game, PVEers. Its easier to convert people already playing the game rather than finding a whole new playerbase. I have no insight whether this was successful or not, but ever since last year when it premiered the PVP community has pretty much bashed it, tell me I am wrong? I respect PVPers in their tenacity to tear down other classes, and find glitchy things in game, that give them the edge on the battlefield. @xvimn134 or pineapple is infamous for it, he was the one that discovered in Chicken PVP that you could have endless HP by eating a food before you went into a match. His use the OP sigil in PVP prompted the Devs to nerf it to useless in both PVE and PVP. He is a pillar in the PVP community, respected among his peers, he is a King in a shrinking kingdom. Some might say he does this to improve the experience, the Devs must be held accountable for the bugs and glitches. Others might say his actions have led to the failure of PVP, and why even new players wanting to try PVP don't.
Look at all the old posts from PVP players over the years, they have asked for the same things over and over, even when they get them they still ask for them. Even when the playerbase continues to falter it is still all the Devs fault. No new PVP area's (mod 17), poor rewards (mod 17), no new pvp gear (mod 17), need new seasons with rewards (mod 18), and the ever present nerf this class, nerf that artifact, nerf that weapon, nerf that ring, nerf nerf nerf. The only thing that hasn't changed is ....

just some comments regarding your comments about pve/pvp:
1. bugs need to be exposed and fixed even that means some nerf
2. the only thing here that might affect pve dps is nerf of mirage of weapon which has been supported by a lot of pve players too, instead they should buff celestial weapon
3. some pve and pvp stuff should be seperated, like the healing in pvp should be nerfed, but in pve may be not
4. It is devs’ job to keep pve and pvp balanced at the same time

This is pvp section and I know you dont like pvp at all, but does not mean all others dont care about pvp; however if you have any good ideas to balance pve/pvp you should definitely let devs know about it.

cueteadaso1 · April 2021

uffff.. do something please! we want to play pvp again.
Thanks for your post..

treentbail21 · April 2021

3k mount power, sw daily damage, mirage weapons and accuracy/ deflect severity needs to be fixed first. Thats 75% of the reason people are specced so tanky. I have a feeling just doing that would solve most of the issues.

fuxion · April 2021

hastur905 said:
I am unsure whether anyone in here watches any of the Dev stream's, but they have said a while ago that they would not be looking at PVP for at least a year. At that time, that would have been late 2021 or 2022. Also, as evidenced by the some of the posts in here, PVP post generally call for nerfs of other classes. When they introduced Chicken PVP the idea was to see if there was any interest in PVP from the majority of the players currently playing the game, PVEers. Its easier to convert people already playing the game rather than finding a whole new playerbase. I have no insight whether this was successful or not, but ever since last year when it premiered the PVP community has pretty much bashed it, tell me I am wrong? I respect PVPers in their tenacity to tear down other classes, and find glitchy things in game, that give them the edge on the battlefield. @xvimn134 or pineapple is infamous for it, he was the one that discovered in Chicken PVP that you could have endless HP by eating a food before you went into a match. His use the OP sigil in PVP prompted the Devs to nerf it to useless in both PVE and PVP. He is a pillar in the PVP community, respected among his peers, he is a King in a shrinking kingdom. Some might say he does this to improve the experience, the Devs must be held accountable for the bugs and glitches. Others might say his actions have led to the failure of PVP, and why even new players wanting to try PVP don't.
Look at all the old posts from PVP players over the years, they have asked for the same things over and over, even when they get them they still ask for them. Even when the playerbase continues to falter it is still all the Devs fault. No new PVP area's (mod 17), poor rewards (mod 17), no new pvp gear (mod 17), need new seasons with rewards (mod 18), and the ever present nerf this class, nerf that artifact, nerf that weapon, nerf that ring, nerf nerf nerf. The only thing that hasn't changed is ....

if you dont PVP dont comment !!! Mind your own business.

Its got nothing do with you and you dont have any valuable input to assist in anyway.

ophid · May 2021

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ophid · May 2021

fuxion#7775 the fellow has a right to speak. Check that 'tude.

please devs, quality of pvp matches going down even more, time to care pvp before nw pvp is gone?

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