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New Combat System Tank view and Problems
xtremoz
Member Posts: 300 Arc User
Hi all,
My main Char is a Fighter was 35k ilv now I'm 49kish, I use to do end game now I cant do most content. I have 80% defense 60%/75% awareness 55%/65% crit avoid.
Lets start with the cap system, 50%(ratings) + 40% (% ratings)... rating are okish, % Status are not there not enough sources and the ones there are are to low. For what I understand there % in Boons, companion powers and potions.
Boons: 0.2% per points is useless, 5points to get 1% lets say I as a tank have 50% awareness from rating I can go 51% with boons there only 1 boon for it, same goes for accuracy, crit... and all other status in boons... except power x4 power boon (power is kind of useless for Tank, and most dps have it cap with forte).
0.2% per boon is a back joke, 50% + 1% boons miles away from cap. make it a minimum 1% per point so players can get 5% .
Companions: we can have 5 companion power, 3.8% + 3.8% or 7,5%... so a total of lets use 3.8%x2x5(comps)=38% status that all we have
we have 20 different status or so they all need % sources to that 40% over 50% rating.
Potions: potions give us % satus what is good, I think those are ok. if we compare watermelon sorbet 10% power and 10% accuracy, u see the joke it is work to get 5 boon point to get 1%.
Conclusion: we need more sources of % status and to increase the existing ones, make 1% per boon point and a minimum of double the companion Powers bonus.
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HP: here the main problem starts, specially for a Tank Like me. I had 1.1mil HP, Now I have 800k where my DPS friends had 400k and now 600k.
Changing the boost to Tank HP from 40% to 20% is a bad move, and its Nerf on top of nerf. MY mount use to give me 50k HP was lowered, my boons on HP lower, companions with HP lowers, stones with HP lower...
Like losing 300k HP (even after upgrading companions to Mythic) is even worst when my block is based on my HP, less HP less Block... and on top of that block when from Blocking dmg = to 50% my HP to 40%. We tank lost HP and even got a cut on the % of our HP block can do.
As Fighter Tank our base mechanic on Tab is DIG IN it use to block dmg = to 75% of HP, now is 60%
Conclusion: HP cut of 20% bonus on tank + 10% cut on block + 15% cut on dig in is to much.
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Stamina regeneration: is to slow, I have 60% Stamina regeneration and can get full stamina between 2 big hit on a boss rotation. We block less cuz of HP cuts and block cuz... if we don't get the stamina back fast even at 60% regen... we dead 1 shot.
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Combine Rating Vs Item level: this needs to be address, all increases ilv + than combine ratings... lets say I have a ring 1010 ilv 808 combine ratings and change it for a 1100 ilv 880.
1100 - 1010 = 90 ilv
880 - 808 = 82 combine ratings
lets say I have 30.000 total combine rating and 50.000 ilv, now with new ring I have 30.082 CR and 50.100ilv
50.100 - 30.082 = 20.018 all my ratings are now more distant from ILv... repeat this for all gear, enchants... and u get what I mean.
Collars are even worst at this effect 300 combine 600 ilv at purple to 500 combine 1000 ilv.
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Gear: Gear need to be adjust on equip power, u did changed 3 pieces of T3 hunt drops and the others?? 8K power when you have temp HP we that wear it had the same hard time farming T3 lure and killing it. 10k power when only 1 enemy, and so on all power power power from T3, all power from Divine gear... Most gear ingame from last 2 Modules is power bases... power every 5sec, power when u heal, power when u kill....
Changing just 3 pieces is a joke, why no Awareness and Deflect, Crit avoid... I'm a tank even if I use it, will never do 10% my HP to proc it.
Conclusion: all Gear from last 2 Mods have equip bonus based on power that needs a change, Tank need gear also, where are defense/deflect/crit avoid/awareness gear bonus... that proc for tank (when you deflect, when u crit, when u take 30% dmg).
______________________________________________
Sorry for the long post!
Hope some DEV can read it a think about it... A tank that get 1 shot is not a tanks, Tanks does low dmg, have a lot HP and is hard to kill.
My main Char is a Fighter was 35k ilv now I'm 49kish, I use to do end game now I cant do most content. I have 80% defense 60%/75% awareness 55%/65% crit avoid.
Lets start with the cap system, 50%(ratings) + 40% (% ratings)... rating are okish, % Status are not there not enough sources and the ones there are are to low. For what I understand there % in Boons, companion powers and potions.
Boons: 0.2% per points is useless, 5points to get 1% lets say I as a tank have 50% awareness from rating I can go 51% with boons there only 1 boon for it, same goes for accuracy, crit... and all other status in boons... except power x4 power boon (power is kind of useless for Tank, and most dps have it cap with forte).
0.2% per boon is a back joke, 50% + 1% boons miles away from cap. make it a minimum 1% per point so players can get 5% .
Companions: we can have 5 companion power, 3.8% + 3.8% or 7,5%... so a total of lets use 3.8%x2x5(comps)=38% status that all we have
we have 20 different status or so they all need % sources to that 40% over 50% rating.
Potions: potions give us % satus what is good, I think those are ok. if we compare watermelon sorbet 10% power and 10% accuracy, u see the joke it is work to get 5 boon point to get 1%.
Conclusion: we need more sources of % status and to increase the existing ones, make 1% per boon point and a minimum of double the companion Powers bonus.
______________________________________________________________________________________
HP: here the main problem starts, specially for a Tank Like me. I had 1.1mil HP, Now I have 800k where my DPS friends had 400k and now 600k.
Changing the boost to Tank HP from 40% to 20% is a bad move, and its Nerf on top of nerf. MY mount use to give me 50k HP was lowered, my boons on HP lower, companions with HP lowers, stones with HP lower...
Like losing 300k HP (even after upgrading companions to Mythic) is even worst when my block is based on my HP, less HP less Block... and on top of that block when from Blocking dmg = to 50% my HP to 40%. We tank lost HP and even got a cut on the % of our HP block can do.
As Fighter Tank our base mechanic on Tab is DIG IN it use to block dmg = to 75% of HP, now is 60%
Conclusion: HP cut of 20% bonus on tank + 10% cut on block + 15% cut on dig in is to much.
____________________________________________________________________
Stamina regeneration: is to slow, I have 60% Stamina regeneration and can get full stamina between 2 big hit on a boss rotation. We block less cuz of HP cuts and block cuz... if we don't get the stamina back fast even at 60% regen... we dead 1 shot.
____________________________________________
Combine Rating Vs Item level: this needs to be address, all increases ilv + than combine ratings... lets say I have a ring 1010 ilv 808 combine ratings and change it for a 1100 ilv 880.
1100 - 1010 = 90 ilv
880 - 808 = 82 combine ratings
lets say I have 30.000 total combine rating and 50.000 ilv, now with new ring I have 30.082 CR and 50.100ilv
50.100 - 30.082 = 20.018 all my ratings are now more distant from ILv... repeat this for all gear, enchants... and u get what I mean.
Collars are even worst at this effect 300 combine 600 ilv at purple to 500 combine 1000 ilv.
_________________________________________
Gear: Gear need to be adjust on equip power, u did changed 3 pieces of T3 hunt drops and the others?? 8K power when you have temp HP we that wear it had the same hard time farming T3 lure and killing it. 10k power when only 1 enemy, and so on all power power power from T3, all power from Divine gear... Most gear ingame from last 2 Modules is power bases... power every 5sec, power when u heal, power when u kill....
Changing just 3 pieces is a joke, why no Awareness and Deflect, Crit avoid... I'm a tank even if I use it, will never do 10% my HP to proc it.
Conclusion: all Gear from last 2 Mods have equip bonus based on power that needs a change, Tank need gear also, where are defense/deflect/crit avoid/awareness gear bonus... that proc for tank (when you deflect, when u crit, when u take 30% dmg).
______________________________________________
Sorry for the long post!
Hope some DEV can read it a think about it... A tank that get 1 shot is not a tanks, Tanks does low dmg, have a lot HP and is hard to kill.
7
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Comments
The leveling dungeons are even worse for my shields failing before the little dps can chip away enough to kill the mobs.
▂▃▄▅▆▇█▓▒░ Drac ░▒▓█▇▆▅▄▃▂
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I used to be able to solo 1st and 2nd boss in IC, now i can barely take 2-3 hits without praying that the healer is not busy surviving himself and is not out of divinity/soulweave.
Best gear for tanks are gear pieces from ages ago...
But the thing i want to focus on is AGGRO! Before these changes it could be tedious to hold aggro on some fights. You had that encounter that would put you on top of the threat list but in order to keep aggro you would need to keep hitting. And there were boss fights were standing and hitting was a luxury, see 2nd-3d boss in IC and some more. But at least you could have the offensive stats to deal significant damage. Now we have low offensive stats, which means even less damage compared to DPS, holding aggro in some cases is just a dream.
Its so painfully apparent that Cryptic doesnt care at all about tanks.
Tanking is not Kitting. Running away from a boss is not tanking.
Other thing I notice and would like other tank to tell me if they see the same... on log it show like 600k (1.2mil) meaning my defense blocked half but I have 80%, are they only counting ratings in defense formula? and forgetting the % from companion/forte?
There are no issues with gearing a tank in the new system, the only issue is the steep learning curve. As soon as everyone gets used to the new system, everyone will be ok
> And buying curve. Everything a tank had geared became garbage.
I still use half of my radiants, all my empowered and all my enigmatic enchants/runestones.
I still use all my fortitude insignia.
I still use the same mount equip/combat powers.
I swapped from combat advantage reinforcements to awareness reinforcements, then upgraded companions based on meticulous planning using @rainer#8575 Character Builder.
When I read about players spending gazillions of AD for rebalancing toons, I really wonder what they are actually spending it all on....
If you care to take the time to learn how to build in the new system, you can actually build a TOMM capable tank mostly financed by the AD you get from bonding exchange.
Spending time on posting about made up issues in forums is wasting valuable time that could be spent actually learning how to properly build in the new system.
Also, as Stark said, you come off as a fanboy who has no clue what's going on when you can't distinguish the difference between what the mid game players are going through and what characters like yours and mine are.
Neck and belt set for 1+ to all attributes (most players don't have and if they come back is on ZEN like before)
Now look on a mid player side the 1s, without tomm weapon, and T#3 gear. and go do TIC with a group of dps and healers also not max.
As u said u get close with all BIS (doesnt show but my guess is 51k ilv). they also said you be close and able to do what u were doing... the truth is in the game current state u cant.
TOMM and ZARIEL were for the ELITE.. now TIC also and the new dungeon???
Sorry if iam not at your lv, iam even more sorry for tanks starting the game now.... and see when they gonna have ToMM gear.... T3 gear, max mount max companions.
But since Im a nice person I tell you what u want to hear. Congratulations on capping defense and awareness, now tell me how my 29k ilv tank that is now 40k will tank Tic like I did every single day before the system rework... were 30-35min TIC's but no deaths... now... spends Gazillions AD.
Mitigated Damage = Damage * [1-(Defense-Enemy ArmorPen)] * (other stuff), where the Defense-ArmorPen section can go no lower than 0
Some time during the preview combat changes (too lazy to find page), the Defense formula was changed to (but not explicitly stated) and currently is on PC:
Mitigated Damage = Damage * [1/(1+Defense)]
So if the player stacks 90% Defense in this new system, you'll have (1/1.9), or the mitigated damage will be 52.63% as effective as normal. Or, in other words, stacking 90% Defense will reduce enemy incoming damage by 48.37%.
Also, because I can: blame @rainer#8575 !
You said "Status are not there not enough sources and the ones there are are to low",
This is false for all gear levels.
You said "Changing the boost to Tank HP from 40% to 20% is a bad move, and its Nerf on top of nerf."
This is false, the change to HP is in line with the new system, and enough HP is achieveable for all gearing levels.
You said " We block less cuz of HP cuts and block cuz... if we don't get the stamina back fast even at 60% regen... we dead 1 shot."
This is false and clearly an issue with playstyle.
You said "50.100 - 30.082 = 20.018 all my ratings are now more distant from ILv."
You deliberately ignore the fact that the stats gear is focused on (example 3k defense ring) is increasing, making your character stronger in total. Wrong understanding of the combined rating system.
Your power gear concern solved with M20 gear adjustment.
You said "Sorry if iam not at your lv, iam even more sorry for tanks starting the game now.... and see when they gonna have ToMM gear.... T3 gear, max mount max companions."
You dont need any of these items to tank any content (including M20 Vault of Stars). See below example for budget TOMM gearing.
@maxzius#3795
"Also, as Stark said, you come off as a fanboy who has no clue what's going on when you can't distinguish the difference between what the mid game players are going through and what characters like yours and mine are."
I am very well aware of the difference between endgame and mid-game players.
In the below example I show the build I used to test what is absolute minimum for IC and TOMM completion.
No mythic mounts, no legendary insignia, no higher than r12 enchants (r9 weapon enchant), all free to obtain gear (even the mount is free from refer-a-friend program).
The screenshot I shared earlier is clearly an example of very close to max gearing, and in use to demonstrate that there are no lack of HP sources (the loadout in screenshot can reach 1.000.000+++ HP with minor adjustments).
If you had been following preview feedback on the new system, you could have seen me tank TOMM in a loadout based on Drowcraft gear.
My goal is to help players that obviously do not understand the new system, if that is what you define as "fanboy who has no clue what's going on", I will proudly wear that title.
you can have the status looking good in that build u showing, go to TIC with 622k HP and survive to a tail attack. Show status... show me you fighitng a TIC boss with those status. The status may look good but the hit are so high that 600k HP + dig in block u still die... Maybe the dmg need to be adjusted... but thats is a 2nd way to fix this or u give more status or u lower the dmg.
Now dont tell me that build can do TIC as u could pre changes. (with a cleric healer, no temo shields)
I have done both IC and TOMM with the build
IF dmg block on shield is base on HP, u have less HP u block less, u have less % of HP in that block u block less.
1mil HP 50% block (block 500k dmg before shield break)
800k HP 50% block (block 400k dmg before shield break)
800k HP 40% block (block 320k dmg before shield break)
Its math not play style.
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The 3k ring u talk about. increases the defense for 3k but also increases your ilv.
If the ilv goes up 90 and combine rating go up 80, u lose 10 over all status except defense.
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MOD 20 will fix... we on mod 19. "its ok to starve in winter, u will eat on spring".
And if the solution is MOD 20 gear why change 3 pieces of T3? oh ofc all end game were complaining about it... since they dont complain about none BiS gear they didnt change it.
37k,47k, 51k
37k is minimum at my skill level (I suck at trial tanking)
On test, I’m not able to gimp myself like that on live. Find me in Rainers discord, I can send you the combat log file and screenshots
Chain of Scales is being upgraded to match the numbers from Bel's Relic (I assume they mean the Vibrating Forger's Box? I'm not sure) - so should provide an Awareness bonus of 2k?
New artifact set will provide a set bonus of 5% awareness & 5% damage reduction after standing still for 3 seconds - though they've not yet confirmed if the DR is a secondary layer or added to your DR stat - which would suck).
Hopefully this is just the start and we'll see a couple of new companions and an insignia bonus with good Awareness stats.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
The main issues tanks have had is just lack of anything useful in newer mods with useful bonuses and things consistently being taken or 'rebalanced' from us. Hopefully with the new armor being a start, we'll see new items for tanks coming up.
All else fails for you, wait until feral velociraptor is cheaper, get it, yell at everyone else to wear it
Second build uses overwhelming for the 10% damage reduction, and helps keep me at 42k for crit avoid/deflect/awareness, so the feat works perfectly.