Drop system and levels of top dungeons

arheliya · October 2020

Hello. I apologize in advance for my broken English.
I'm not even sure which section this can be attributed to - I have suggestions and a topic for discussion, and I also want to share my experience. Surely something like this or much of it has already been proposed and discussed.
So..

Redesign of the dungeons system and rewards.

How do you see top content? Is it something to strain, try, and ultimately receive a worthy reward? Sure thing! But it doesn't work now.

As soon as a new top-end and difficult dungeon appears, the players train for a long time and go through with great difficulty, end-to-end. But then.. They get used to it and start selling places in the party. The loss of one player is acceptable for passing. This became especially noticeable with the transition to a new type of module release, when the gameplay content is enhanced, and the dungeons remain the same. Buyers may not participate at all in the passage and observe from the side, but receive all the rewards. And this is bad globally. The system of selling something itself is also game content to some extent, that's not the point. The evil lies in the fact that the majority of those who buy (and there are quite a few of them) do [b]not see the game[/b]. This is the most terrible and root of all troubles, which can be described forever.

Everyone wants to dress in the best items. Unfamiliar players will first of all look for parties by items, GS. I know too many players who don't live up to what they're wearing...

I offer a multiple drop system and levels of top dungeons.
Each new dungeon must have 3 difficulty levels (after the next release, leave only the average or look according to the situation).
The easiest level (№1) should be accessible to most. It is also suitable for getting acquainted with the basic mechanics of the new dungeon.
The second level of difficulty is analogous to Zariel at the start of the module. A difficult dungeon that can be completed with the things of the old modules.
Level 3 - Hell! Players must pass this level. A well-trained and well-coordinated team that has collected everything you need already in this module. The complexity should be done with a margin of 3+ months after the release of the module.

The rewards shouldn't be very different, only their number. This will serve as an adequate incentive for passing. If you can pull the hardest dungeon, get a lot of rewards in 1 playthrough. Example:
Level 1 - 1 chest.
Level 2 - 2 chests
Level 3 - 4 chests.
Level 3 (hard) - Yes, you definitely need to make a unique reward for passing without deaths and in the hard version. Then to show everyone how cool you are.

It has to be a unique cosmetic item, a title, a useless companion, and so on.

I hope I conveyed my thoughts correctly, share yours too ^_^

reg1981 · October 2020

Personally I love the way trials are being released. I might also be part of the small % who likes the new reward model. This stuff is useful! Sure 2 TBs, 1 Pres ward is a little underwhelming from a chest but that stuff adds up! This game is a game of patience's, not a NOW game unless your putting $$ into the mix. Then you can speed it up a bit. I feel they are coming leaps and bounds in speeding up the building of our toons. Look at all the comp tokens that have been entered into the game. When I first started it was millions and millions of AD only to do your pets.

As for selling a spot in a party for content? Eff that. Your finding the wrong people in this game. I've said it before, and I agree with your statement that not everyone can get the most out of their toon. I'm very ok with that, we all have different personalities that can affect our playstyle. I do a pile of damage in tomm, do ok in Zariel master, would probably do more if I smoked less weed XD Play the mechanics, not the pain giver chart. Once that aspect is grasped and you can live to the end of a trial, the DPS usually starts to climb.

2 Tiers of difficulty is a much welcomed change in Zariel, coming from tower. But 3+ tiers with same rewards is never gonna happen nor do I feel it would be worth the development time, why would anyone do the master versions if they can do the lesser for the same rewards or an even lesser lesser version? Most don't even do Zariel master because the rewards aren't much different from the lesser version! I can do baby Zariel without using any resources to complete it. No scrolls, no health stones, not even potions. It's also a very quick run and can be farmed heavily. I understand that when this stuff comes out it's not available to everyone, I do get that aspect, but at the same time it offers content for someone to work toward. It offers a solid team goal to achieve. The ability to farm baby leveling dungeons already happened and was abused like crazy and ruined the experience for newer players. Those baby dungeons offered like 5k rad. If people will abuse that system for 5k rad, how will it go if there are comp tokens, pres wards, and other premium loot available there?

There is already a reward in place for doing tomm and Zariel deathless, a cape and title. There are also mounts that can be purchased after gathering 200 scrolls of the lost void and probably the same amount of Hilts from Zariel(I've not actually looked at this mount yet)

That's a bit of a ramble, but are my thoughts on it.

aixis2000 · October 2020

@arheliya...."Everyone wants to dress in the best items. Unfamiliar players will first of all look for parties by items, GS. I know too many players who don't live up to what they're wearing..."
If I understand u right u just want to show that u belong to the top super duper end gamers and need to show that to the player base, right?
Aye...so be it as long as I dont have to bow when u pass.

Btw. one way to that " who don't live up to what they're wearing " is called Leasing! So u may see it like that and u will get a better sleep I guess...

arheliya · November 2020

aixis2000 said:

If I understand u right u just want to show that u belong to the top super duper end gamers and need to show that to the player base, right?
Aye...so be it as long as I dont have to bow when u pass.

Sure! Where is my crown?..

With this, I just pointed out the holes in the existing system.

reg1981 said:
But 3+ tiers with same rewards is never gonna happen nor do I feel it would be worth the development time, why would anyone do the master versions if they can do the lesser for the same rewards or an even lesser lesser version? Most don't even do Zariel master because the rewards aren't much different from the lesser version! I can do baby Zariel without using any resources to complete it. No scrolls, no health stones, not even potions. It's also a very quick run and can be farmed heavily. I understand that when this stuff comes out it's not available to everyone, I do get that aspect, but at the same time it offers content for someone to work toward. It offers a solid team goal to achieve. The ability to farm baby leveling dungeons already happened and was abused like crazy and ruined the experience for newer players. Those baby dungeons offered like 5k rad. If people will abuse that system for 5k rad, how will it go if there are comp tokens, pres wards, and other premium loot available there?.

Let's be honest. It is very difficult to maintain interest in the dungeon throughout the duration of the module. Take the same Zariel - for those who learned to pass it, it became commonplace, and new items made it even easier to pass. As for the other players, it remained unattainable height. Those who have passed it many times prefer to take veterans, but not newcomers.
Therefore, I propose the same drop, but in different quantities, in order to use all layers of the game's population. If you can complete the hard version, you will receive as many as 4 awards instead of 1 for the easy one in about the same time. Time - is the most precious resource.
After all, in games we like to choose different difficulty levels..

reg1981 said:

There is already a reward in place for doing tomm and Zariel deathless, a cape and title. There are also mounts that can be purchased after gathering 200 scrolls of the lost void and probably the same amount of Hilts from Zariel(I've not actually looked at this mount yet)

Yep. You don't have to reinvent the wheel, just expand.

grogthemagnif · November 2020

arheliya said:
Hello. I apologize in advance for my broken English.
I'm not even sure which section this can be attributed to - I have suggestions and a topic for discussion, and I also want to share my experience. Surely something like this or much of it has already been proposed and discussed.
So..

Redesign of the dungeons system and rewards.
How do you see top content? Is it something to strain, try, and ultimately receive a worthy reward? Sure thing! But it doesn't work now.
As soon as a new top-end and difficult dungeon appears, the players train for a long time and go through with great difficulty, end-to-end. But then.. They get used to it and start selling places in the party. The loss of one player is acceptable for passing. This became especially noticeable with the transition to a new type of module release, when the gameplay content is enhanced, and the dungeons remain the same. Buyers may not participate at all in the passage and observe from the side, but receive all the rewards. And this is bad globally. The system of selling something itself is also game content to some extent, that's not the point. The evil lies in the fact that the majority of those who buy (and there are quite a few of them) do [b]not see the game[/b]. This is the most terrible and root of all troubles, which can be described forever.

Everyone wants to dress in the best items. Unfamiliar players will first of all look for parties by items, GS. I know too many players who don't live up to what they're wearing...

I offer a multiple drop system and levels of top dungeons.
Each new dungeon must have 3 difficulty levels (after the next release, leave only the average or look according to the situation).
The easiest level (№1) should be accessible to most. It is also suitable for getting acquainted with the basic mechanics of the new dungeon.
The second level of difficulty is analogous to Zariel at the start of the module. A difficult dungeon that can be completed with the things of the old modules.
Level 3 - Hell! Players must pass this level. A well-trained and well-coordinated team that has collected everything you need already in this module. The complexity should be done with a margin of 3+ months after the release of the module.

The rewards shouldn't be very different, only their number. This will serve as an adequate incentive for passing. If you can pull the hardest dungeon, get a lot of rewards in 1 playthrough. Example:
Level 1 - 1 chest.
Level 2 - 2 chests
Level 3 - 4 chests.
Level 3 (hard) - Yes, you definitely need to make a unique reward for passing without deaths and in the hard version. Then to show everyone how cool you are. It has to be a unique cosmetic item, a title, a useless companion, and so on.

I hope I conveyed my thoughts correctly, share yours too ^_^

This is similar to 'Old School Dungeons' where the party went in with a reasonable chance of success and the gear to succeed. The encounters were always a challenge and a lot of hp was lost in each. Traps could be deadly, but there was always a counter if you could disable the trap or avoid it. Players dying made the challenge harder. If you succeeded, the rewards are more than adequate (and you usually only did that Dungeon once and then moved on). You succeed by teamwork, using you strengths to offset other party members weaknesses. "Balanced" cookie cutter classes is not an option. Picking up fallen players is usual.

Neverwinter is an MMO, not D&D. You start the Dungeon with less than optimal gear, but it's the best you have. You have a reasonable chance of dying a lot of times and in 1-4 HOURS, you actually complete the dungeon with 1-3 (of 5) players still in the dungeon at the final battle and the rest waiting at the campfire for success or failure. Occasionally, you get better gear (1 piece), rarely 2 pieces of better gear (1-2 down/10-11 to go), a 4e silvers and coppers coin reward, maybe a potion, maybe runes/enchants for your equipment. After many, many runs your group will be able to (buy running through and missing a lot of the content) finish the dungeon in the standard 15 minutes or less. Each run through, you get more gear for the next run (either duplicates of what you have, new pieces which you may or may not use and new pieces which fit into your setup.) Dumbed down, Balanced player Characters is the goal. Teamwork is 'sort of ' an afterthought. Getting picked up is Rare, but saying Thank You (ty) helps make it less rare. Because it's an MMO and all about ME and picking up fallen players, thwarts MY GOALS of being THE BEST. Teamwork is suggested, but only those who are good players or regularly play together us it.

Then for the next higher dungeon do it all over again. Some players

grogthemagnif · November 2020

grogthemagnif said:

arheliya said:
Hello. I apologize in advance for my broken English.
I'm not even sure which section this can be attributed to - I have suggestions and a topic for discussion, and I also want to share my experience. Surely something like this or much of it has already been proposed and discussed.
So..

Redesign of the dungeons system and rewards.
How do you see top content? Is it something to strain, try, and ultimately receive a worthy reward? Sure thing! But it doesn't work now.
As soon as a new top-end and difficult dungeon appears, the players train for a long time and go through with great difficulty, end-to-end. But then.. They get used to it and start selling places in the party. The loss of one player is acceptable for passing. This became especially noticeable with the transition to a new type of module release, when the gameplay content is enhanced, and the dungeons remain the same. Buyers may not participate at all in the passage and observe from the side, but receive all the rewards. And this is bad globally. The system of selling something itself is also game content to some extent, that's not the point. The evil lies in the fact that the majority of those who buy (and there are quite a few of them) do [b]not see the game[/b]. This is the most terrible and root of all troubles, which can be described forever.

Everyone wants to dress in the best items. Unfamiliar players will first of all look for parties by items, GS. I know too many players who don't live up to what they're wearing...

I offer a multiple drop system and levels of top dungeons.
Each new dungeon must have 3 difficulty levels (after the next release, leave only the average or look according to the situation).
The easiest level (№1) should be accessible to most. It is also suitable for getting acquainted with the basic mechanics of the new dungeon.
The second level of difficulty is analogous to Zariel at the start of the module. A difficult dungeon that can be completed with the things of the old modules.
Level 3 - Hell! Players must pass this level. A well-trained and well-coordinated team that has collected everything you need already in this module. The complexity should be done with a margin of 3+ months after the release of the module.

The rewards shouldn't be very different, only their number. This will serve as an adequate incentive for passing. If you can pull the hardest dungeon, get a lot of rewards in 1 playthrough. Example:
Level 1 - 1 chest.
Level 2 - 2 chests
Level 3 - 4 chests.
Level 3 (hard) - Yes, you definitely need to make a unique reward for passing without deaths and in the hard version. Then to show everyone how cool you are. It has to be a unique cosmetic item, a title, a useless companion, and so on.

I hope I conveyed my thoughts correctly, share yours too ^_^
This is similar to 'Old School Dungeons' where the party went in with a reasonable chance of success and the gear to succeed. The encounters were always a challenge and a lot of hp was lost in each. Traps could be deadly, but there was always a counter if you could disable the trap or avoid it. Players dying made the challenge harder. If you succeeded, the rewards are more than adequate (and you usually only did that Dungeon once and then moved on). You succeed by teamwork, using you strengths to offset other party members weaknesses. "Balanced" cookie cutter classes is not an option. Picking up fallen players is usual.

Neverwinter is an MMO, not D&D. You start the Dungeon with less than optimal gear, but it's the best you have. You have a reasonable chance of dying a lot of times and in 1-4 HOURS, you actually complete the dungeon with 1-3 (of 5) players still in the dungeon at the final battle and the rest waiting at the campfire for success or failure. Occasionally, you get better gear (1 piece), rarely 2 pieces of better gear (1-2 down/10-11 to go), a 4e silvers and coppers coin reward, maybe a potion, maybe runes/enchants for your equipment. After many, many runs your group will be able to (buy running through and missing a lot of the content) finish the dungeon in the standard 15 minutes or less. Each run through, you get more gear for the next run (either duplicates of what you have, new pieces which you may or may not use and new pieces which fit into your setup.) Dumbed down, Balanced player Characters is the goal. Teamwork is 'sort of ' an afterthought. Getting picked up is Rare, but saying Thank You (ty) helps make it less rare. Because it's an MMO and all about ME and picking up fallen players, thwarts MY GOALS of being THE BEST. Teamwork is suggested, but only those who are good players or regularly play together us it.

Then for the next higher dungeon do it all over again. Some players like to be 'carried' so they can get the rewards with only minimal qualifications.

Drop system and levels of top dungeons

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