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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › Player Feedback (PC)

Cloak Tower Last Boss Scaling Is Absolute Terrible!

mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
in Player Feedback (PC)
I shouldn't die so easy being a 24K+ item level scaled down and that's how I feel every time. The last boss on Cloak Tower is madness difficult as compared to other dungeons and it's suicide based on the scaling. The last boss shouldn't hit extremely hard! That is all.

Comments

  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User
    Imo she doesn't hit that hard. Easily dodgable or just tankable with minimal amount of defense. Sure she has a lot of HP, but that's a good thing and more bosses should have similar levels of HP to actually have the phases that they were designed with. Would also stop setting up players to expect super easy mode all the time and then suddenly hitting a wall where some thought is required.
  • kharkov58kharkov58 Member Posts: 669 Arc User
    Your title was much to long. It should read "Scaling is absolute terrible".
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    @arazith07 Well, being scaled down with this last boss, it's a joke! The last boss on cloak tower has too much defense and hp. It's enough to be ludicrous! Boss is constantly moving when every stat is scaled down! No one holds aggro! It's a mess of bug!

    Every other boss is easy on Cloak Tower. However, the last boss seems to have more defense and hits harder than it really should. I'll make the statement for not only myself, so enough that it's quite ludicrous to be set for any level 12 going in and I believe it's extremely unfair for any player that is new. I've seen so many players complaining! I'm 116K+ power, 88K+ defense, 100K+ Combat Advantage, 300K+ hit points, 102+ or 103+ critical severity, and etc being scaled down as a level 80 rogue. It's so bad, the boss eats my hit points greatly being level 80 scaled down and I have some healing insignia bonus during deflection. I've seen even great healers die easy. The next level highest dungeon is quite not as difficult as comparison for last boss.

    Please don't make the last boss hit as hard, lower hp of the boss, and lower its defense. It's terrible out of place! The consistency of the boss seems extremely off for a level 12 dungeon! The time defeating last boss being scaled down seems more than it should be! Everyone is barely damaging the boss! It's bugged!!! It's possible, but players have to revive each other more often! I'll record the ludicrous if I have to show the comparison of higher level dungeons set correctly?!
    Post edited by mwk on
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    Ok, if I can go to a higher level dungeons and be done less than a minute or slightly more for last boss, it's not set correctly for level 12 dungeon! So at Cloak Tower, it takes me 7 minutes, which is something that puzzles me why?! I had many lower levels be like what is wrong with this dungeon? If you want accuracy, look at the time I did the dungeon spending on each last boss!

    [Cragmire Crypts] 1:04pm (Less than a minute for last boss)
    [Gray Wolf Den] 1:19pm-1:20pm (A minute and a half perhaps for last boss)
    [Cloak Tower] 12:39-12:46pm (WHAT THE HECK FOR LEVEL 12 DUNGEON LAST BOSS?!)

    No I don't own a parrot type bird and I know I should of moved at the end. Though the boss almost dead, I'm throwing daggers at it constantly, and it's not dead already to prove my point! THE DEFENSE IS TOO HIGH, HP IS HIGH, AND HITS KINDA HARD! So you be judge how ludicrous it is. Come on now, it's a level 12 dungeon! A LEVEL 12 DUNGEON shouldn't be this hard for a last boss, which is in fact the first dungeon while leveling up! I actually used more potions than the higher level dungeons for last boss and reality I actually didn't use any at all while doing higher level dungeons-zip zero. So I ask what is wrong with this last boss at Cloak Tower? You stated you're 27K item level, well as compared to you I'm 24K+ and I'm dying easily! It doesn't seem right for a last boss to be so overpowered, especially for a level 12 dungeon! I shouldn't die so easy! Even for a level 12 with level 80s, it's still bad! I play with some friends with a new alt-character and they questioned, what's up with the last boss?! Even totally new players! I'm asking why too that it's way off than it supposed to be?! You want spellplague caverns? That's easy and so on for level 80 doing leveling dungeons!


    Post edited by mwk on
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    Thinking forward it wasn't worse when Mod 16 hit and for some reason a scaling patch messed it up to be bugged with the last boss of Cloak Tower. Apparently some math was entered incorrectly and that's what I'm trying to point out!
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    Though again I'm not going to have someone ruin the forum when I'm trying discuss an issue that needs to be fixed and it feels like I have to report with statements given from someone like 'I'm sorry you can't defeat the boss in 10 seconds, then brag how you can do it easily with no problem, and telling me to stay out of the red, which I already know', which is shaming and against the TOS! When I report, for some reason there needs to be a block! Meaning the OP forum user that reports, that user reported is not allowed to post on the OP's forum thread. That will save the annoyance! You constantly annoyed me when I tried to ignore you! Why reporting doesn't work instantly? I have no idea? I really hate forums when this happens dealing with such nuisance! Thanks for throwing out of proportion! Just a warning to anyone that does! I will report anyone even when it's not the intention. Yet, justifying isn't going to work for me! So watch your words.
  • burnahbros#7516 burnahbros
    burnahbros#7516
         Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    The last boss is slightly tougher than you would expect but definitely beatable, did it with just myself and 1 other player in a private queue for fun and to see what all the fuss was about. I would agree that the boss should be adjusted slightly, but not too much, and I think the successive bosses, in the dungeons that follow along the leveling experience, should be a little bit tougher to match the difficulty of Cloak Tower. It's fun when you get to fight the boss and see the mechanics. Although I do enjoy a nice melt in epic dungeons.
    It is true that the last boss in Cloak Tower shouldn't be harder to beat than the last boss in Master of the Hunt lol.
    And at the moment it took, myself and 1 other player, longer to kill the final boss in cloak tower than it does the final boss in some epic dungeons and skirmishes.
    Hopefully the devs can find a nice balance where it's not quite so difficult but not too easy.
    Personally I think they should do away with scaling altogether, or at least, just scale HP and power.
    Why do we even need scaling when there is supposedly stat caps. Stat caps should make scaling unnecessary, other than to scale HP and power. But I think combined rating are the issue that has yet to be solved when concerning scaling.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    Yes the last boss on cloak tower can be defeated, but it just odd based how the boss is set. I believe my point is set.
  • hexngone#5489 hexngone
    hexngone#5489
         Member Posts: 370 Arc User
    So, have any of you actually gone through Cloaked Tower with 5 level 12 characters? When you have done that and can provide feedback on the difficulty of Vansi Blookscar in his newer tougher state, please let us know.

    I only wonder how much of the difficulty is a result of the higher IL players in the group (compensating for IL). If done correctly, 5 level 12s should be able to work together and defeat the boss in a reasonable time. As the first Dungeon now experienced by the new player (sans Blacklake skirmish) this should be an indication of how much fun/effort playing NW will be.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User
    As I stated above before mods took away all the back and forth posts. I went in with a party of almost all level 12-20, and one 80. The level 80 guy was 3rd in damage. Boss took about 2 minutes to kill.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    @arazus01 I know the Cloak Tower last boss can be defeated and yes it's easier with a party. However, when it's all level 80, everyone is barely damaging the boss. Any level 80 is barely hitting the boss! As compared to other higher level dungeons, it's set accordingly. I typically stay back, because boss jumps around too much and I'm focusing on the easy kill orcs. As I'm focusing on orcs, being surrounded by them, Vasni jumps in my direction, and I'm dealing with a boss I can't even hit at all. Vasni's defense, hp, and damage is too high that I can't block her, unless I'm playing a Fighter or Paladin to avoid being eaten alive by hit points. Awareness, critical avoidance, defense, hp, and etc is suicide with the downscale with how Vasni is setup! I can't determine what Vasni is going to do and she is going to hit. I have no time to move from her strikes and she is constantly moving because no one has aggro. I've done so much ease with the highest level dungeons, except Cloak Tower, which is a leveling dungeon! I'm literally doing nothing on damaging the boss! The dodge mechanics don't work on boss hardly at all! She will punch back to make any player almost die instantly even without a red area! Always focusing on trying to get around her backside, but no one holds aggro enough to make that happen, therefore I can't take my chances well enough to hit the boss. It becomes quite ludicrous gameplay.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    I believe I made my point with absolute clarity. Please don't make any other posts. I just believe the last boss of cloak tower needs to be adjusted down to fit accordingly to be reasonable with the downscale. Appreciate it. Since no one is barely hitting the boss, there's a problem!
  • kharkov58kharkov58 Member Posts: 669 Arc User
    And you are entitled to tell us what posts we can make?
  • acrinicusacrinicus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 44 Arc User
    Respectfully, I disagree with the OP. Uber strong Vansi is awesome, and in fact, we should have more thoughtful implementations like this in Neverwinter. The devs shouldn't change a thing.

    I suspect Vansi's steroidal nature is at least is part due to the many months (years?) of players like the OP (and me) going nuclear in Cloak Tower, dusting all the new players, and dropping Vansi in one shot before the new GF gets her first chance to savor her first boss battle in NWO. Frankly, anyone unhappy with current Vansi can eat crow after so many years of disappointment for new players.

    An awful lot of ink is spilt on this forum advocating for end game players and their need to have dungeon content that caters to their needs. I agree with that, end game players deserve theirs. New players also deserve theirs as well. The new players have the first boss fight they deserve, so leave it be. Everything between Vansi and Halaster is for the OP. I think that's enough.

    Viva la Vansi!
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    So you're stating every boss should have extreme high defense, high hp, and high damage? No every boss should be reasonable set! I'm not going to have that gameplay when everyone is barely damaging the boss! Lower the defense, hp, and damage of Vansi. Enough for a challenge, but not something that will take long time to kill! I especially don't want ludicrous gameplay! Don't we have epic difficulties? YES WE DO! If you want longer effort for your astrals, just pause and think about it! Sure I like challenge, but not ludicrous when AGAIN no one is barely damaging the boss! The Cloak Tower last boss was set well enough to be longer to kill by slight margin I believe, but the second scaling patch messed it up by huge amount!
    Post edited by mwk on
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User
    mwk said:

    So you're stating every boss should have extreme high defense, high hp, and high damage? No every boss should be reasonable set! I'm not going to have your gameplay when no one can barely damage the boss! Lower the defense, hp, and damage of Vansi. Enough for a challenge, but not something that will take long time to kill! I get your point and I respect that, but I especially don't want ludicrous gameplay!

    Spending a few minutes to kill a boss is in no way ludicrous. This is normal for MMORPGs. Yes this is only level 12-20 content, but the scaling is designed to equalize the playing field so that highly geared players aren't completely dominating the content.

    The average kill time of Vansi is around 2-5 minutes, every other boss in leveling dungeons is about 10 seconds. I think most would agree that the 10 second bosses are in no way rewarding or challenging, or even engaging enough to call it fun. More bosses should be giving more health in my opinion so that battles last longer and so that boss mechanics can actually be played and provide for engaging content for players. As a new player, many would be turned away from the game by the insanely easy bosses in dungeons.

    Just a reminder, or for context, other games have endgame bosses that can take 10+ minutes to kill, without going in to multiple phases or stages and can easily get to 30+ with. First dungeon bosses for the earliest content took about 5 minutes.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    I actually concurred with you a bit, however when everyone is barely damaging the boss, that's a problem! Adjusted for challenge and reasonable set is how gameplay works! I understand the sense of clean swipe before anyone has a chance reasoning. Though, explain your reasoning with a boss that everyone is barely damaging. I'm trying to Modus Vivendi this and guess what, not everyone will fully concur with you and vice versa with me.

    Latin phrase that means 'mode of living' or 'way of life' and often is used to mean an arrangement or agreement that allows conflicting parties to coexist in peace.
    Post edited by mwk on
  • therealprotextherealprotex Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 526 Arc User
    Although I also noticed that the end boss in CT is way out of line with the other bosses in CT and also way out of line with the bosses in other leveling dungeons, I rather like it. In my opinion they did the scaling right on this particular boss. Every boss in leveling dungeons should be scaled like the end boss in CT. After all they are "bosses". What is the difference between the first boss in CT and an ogre in CT? It is close to not existant. Bosses are supposed to be harder than the mobs. A lot harder. Even in leveling dungeons. Just my opinion.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,047 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    Well, i wouldn't mind this HAMSTER, if the rewards at the end of this dungeon run would be something usefull or be at least on the actual character level, but instead it's always Adventurer Seals and some rare lowlevel HAMSTER item instead.

    As mentioned in the CDP, any kind of "scaled" content should give proper rewards for the players. I'm not asking for something special being handed to me on a silver platter, but it would be nice to get something that shows that they value the time i invest into the game.

    Otherwise, if the Devs can't balance scaling with fitting rewards, then they should get rid of scaling all together.
    Post edited by regenerde on
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    So have decent HP so it takes slightly longer. It's just time and time again I feel that barely damaging the boss isn't set correctly. To be honest I like a bit of challenge, but I like to get it done so that I can finish other tasks.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    It's been bugged for awhile and I'm not the only one stating this. I don't use reddit, but players are mentioning how bugged Vansi Bloodscar is. Why not just play EPIC versions of the dungeons? Some of EPIC leveling dungeons are in game! Problem solved!



  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    Want to know truth? Unequip all your gear except weapons and go into Cloak Tower; make sure it's all off before private queue to test. Leave all your insignia and everything else; I'm still making a point. This is no joke and it might be possibly other dungeons too?! My stats are higher when I go with just weapons and undergarments! That's messed up! So yes it's ludicrous! Fix VANSI BLOODSCAR! I apologize for this, but Cryptic's set on down-scaling just needs to stop! Create EPIC versions of these dungeons!

    Everything as I remember as scenario.

    Power with everything off and just weapons: 7.5K
    Power with high item level gear-'everything': 4.7K

    IS THIS A JOKE?!

    Post edited by mwk on
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    The more gear you have on, the lower stats are, except hit points. I actually noticed that taking ring gear off, power goes to 5K from 4.7K and also all the other stats will go up a bit; even hit points. Hit points are not on rings as stats, unless using hit points enchantments if rings have a defense slot; my rings have offense. Is this a joke?! Why is downscaling so horrible of a systemic function in this game? Knowing stats will go up a bit removing gear, doing so proves that the system is technically messed up! Eventually higher item level gear will cripple everyone by large scale enough to apply for every player to go in with suicide gameplay?! Higher item level gear weapons slightly make stats go up by marginal size as compared to lower item level weapons, which is fine. Though how will the rest of the gear scale down? It seems that higher item level gear will cripple more? I want to test that theory! The only advantage is more hit points with higher item level gear. The downscaling is bugged and broken! Honestly downscaling needs to be removed and replaced with EPIC difficulty for level 80 only! Any lower level will be playing the lower difficulty.

    Just play with rings off, I actually played better with Vansi Bloodscar.
    Post edited by mwk on
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    Sheesh what is wrong with this site these days? For some reason I can't even scroll down to post! It does it even on my computer. The page just cuts off by itself! I have to refresh the page and copy paste my post until the site works correctly to post.
  • acrinicusacrinicus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 44 Arc User
    This is really not a problem.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    I tested an (alt) non level 80 character and gear doesn't affect stats. I will test higher levels to see how stats play out. Though I really think it's odd that when taking off rings playing a level 80 character raises the stats in a downscale dungeon instance. Even taking off all gear, except weapons the stats raise up, but the only downside is losing hit points.
  • milehighxr#1299 milehighxr
    milehighxr#1299
         Member Posts: 463 Arc User
    They changed something with this specific boss. It usedtacouldbe easier to kill her than it is now. It takes way longer to kill Vansi than it does the other bosses in Cloak Tower. It shouldn't be that way...
  • alchemistxiiialchemistxiii Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    Scaling in NW uses your GS to set the levels, Taking rings off, lowers your GS which means you don't get as much scaling, Scaling is broken the way it is, Item level can be bumped up massively with the armor from Avernus, rings from Citadel and collars on mounts. As that is though it doesn't mean your stats are at right level. Playing my 35k GS ranger stats end up being lower then a friends 26K Ranger. except Power and HP, far more reduction in combined rating
  • alchemistxiiialchemistxiii Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    Boss in Tomb of the Nine gods, was or is broken still, cant be sure. Remember the post about it said the last boss got Tower of the Mad Mage stats due to a bug
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