test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

The great Mod 19 Unbalancing?

mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 891 Arc User
I gave this some time hoping i was wrong but sadly i was not.

With the barbarian changes of mod 19 the game has been unbalanced like it has never been. This has left classes that do not have multi roles with the choice, stop playing or play a different class.

Let me state this clearly I am am NOT asking for a barbarian nerf. Instead, since this was done now I am asking to bring all dps in mid level to same level as barbarian!

Mod 19 probably means we will not get the new class soon, since you promised repeatedly that the game has to be balanced before that happens and it most certainly is not in its current state. Players are getting frustrated and leaving.

To make this clear cause i will be attacked by the elitist. This post is aimed and mid level. I do know BIS players of all classes can do well but it is useless if players quite at mid level and end game is just 1 class with a few others. It also makes no sense to spend all game resources on 1-2% of player base and then stating you don't have resources to do things for 98% of player base !!!!!!!
There are more than BIS players in this game
It has been 5 YEARS since last new class this is getting ridiculous
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Please do master/normal version of dungeons. This way content for all MOD 19 have nothing new for vast majority of player base. Giving an EVENT is not same thing as permanent content for non BIS. As we suggested in CDP
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



Comments

  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 735 Arc User
    L2P
    Elite Whaleboy
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,035 Arc User
    This is more a case of Barbarians having a lower skill ceiling than other classes, making it easier to find a good rotation or skill kit to get decent damage than other classes. There does need to be a variety in the various classes for skill ceilings, to appeal to a wider group. Some players prefer more skill intensive classes, others prefer to be more casual.

    BIS and top players are often looked at for balance because the skill level is approximately equal. Take any of those players and give them a lower item level character of the same class and they will perform better than the average player playing a more skill focused class. The only way to balance at mid or low level gameplay and not affect high level gameplay, is to make either all classes more skill intensive, or to "dumb down" all the classes, which the player base will not stand for.
  • reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,258 Arc User
    I agree with arazith07, I mained a BiS TR for a while and could take an 18k TR into RTQ and stuff and still be first on paingiver.

    There is a lot this game doesnt' teach us about combat. When I started Tower of the Mad Mage, I really started to learn technique. Apply that technique to older content and you get the appearance of unbalance vs. the general population.

    I'd like to know what class you feel is underpowered though. When not BiS a TR, Barb, SW, HR, Fighter are all power houses. If you play a CW or DPS DC, I sort of get it. They have it a little rougher in my experience(But I might be playing them wrong), I don't play those 2 classes often.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,310 Arc User
    wilbur626 said:

    L2P

    For DPS classes, that's only applicable to Arbiter Cleric.

    A player can play all they want, but if they choose Whisperknife, they literally will just be behind because of Whisperknife's low base damage.

    Same for Thaumaturge. You can be some professional MLG gamer with the best gear possible, but you will end up not doing as much damage because Thaum has bad base damage/cooldowns on their attacks.
    arazith07 said:

    This is more a case of Barbarians having a lower skill ceiling than other classes, making it easier to find a good rotation or skill kit to get decent damage than other classes. There does need to be a variety in the various classes for skill ceilings, to appeal to a wider group. Some players prefer more skill intensive classes, others prefer to be more casual.

    Barbarians are good because Cryptic balanced them with more base damage/faster swing speed/lower cooldowns, rather than making players have to work for their damage.

    They had almost the same gameplan in Mod 18, except now, their attacks just hit harder, swing faster, and come off of cooldown faster (and they generate slightly more Rage relative to before).
    arazith07 said:

    The only way to balance at mid or low level gameplay and not affect high level gameplay, is to make either all classes more skill intensive, or to "dumb down" all the classes, which the player base will not stand for.

    Pretty sure that already happened with the way classes were designed in Mod 16, save for Arbiter Cleric.
    reg1981 said:

    There is a lot this game doesnt' teach us about combat. When I started Tower of the Mad Mage, I really started to learn technique. Apply that technique to older content and you get the appearance of unbalance vs. the general population.

    Understatement.

    The game assumes you basically know everything from the get go or shadow Rainer/Janne/the devs' every forum post.
    reg1981 said:

    If you play a CW or DPS DC, I sort of get it. They have it a little rougher in my experience(But I might be playing them wrong), I don't play those 2 classes often.

    CW is (relatively) weaker in general because they have bad numbers on their attacks (base damage).

    DC is a very strong DPS, by far the strongest single target damage dealer and not bad on AoE either. The only reason why most DC DPS appear to do bad is because they don't know how to use it.

  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,035 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    arazith07 said:

    This is more a case of Barbarians having a lower skill ceiling than other classes, making it easier to find a good rotation or skill kit to get decent damage than other classes. There does need to be a variety in the various classes for skill ceilings, to appeal to a wider group. Some players prefer more skill intensive classes, others prefer to be more casual.

    Barbarians are good because Cryptic balanced them with more base damage/faster swing speed/lower cooldowns, rather than making players have to work for their damage.

    They had almost the same gameplan in Mod 18, except now, their attacks just hit harder, swing faster, and come off of cooldown faster (and they generate slightly more Rage relative to before).
    arazith07 said:

    The only way to balance at mid or low level gameplay and not affect high level gameplay, is to make either all classes more skill intensive, or to "dumb down" all the classes, which the player base will not stand for.

    Pretty sure that already happened with the way classes were designed in Mod 16, save for Arbiter Cleric.
    The M16 rework mainly got rid of a lot of false choices and removed fast encounter cooldowns. It removed a lot of the out of combat decision making and made that part of the game "dumber", but in combat those changes didn't change much. If anything the removal of recovery, lifesteal, and the healing changes has added more thought requirement to the game than it removed. Yes you may be spamming more at-wills than before, but whether it's encounters pre-M16 or at-wills now...it's still spamming.
  • exgardianexgardian Member Posts: 237 Arc User
    CW with low DPS ? I don't think so. No one beats Dreadnaught Fighters.

    Is a very nice and satisfactory class to dish out multiple targets, but against single target, they're lackluster. Just because all of their damage buffs, except the Vengeance and Heavy slash buff (multiplicative damage modifiers), are additive modifiers (that increase magnitude damage). This forces the dreadnaughts to use Lionheart weapons or better to, at least, appear in top 3 or lower in Paingiver list in a ToMM or ZC.
    2fv72Fw.png
  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    uhhh have you met any decent dps dc in a q?
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    So, maybe I'm just out of the loop here, but I'm not seeing a great unbalance. Yes, I still see some unbalance, but not huge ones. I'm seeing more classes actually competing with similar numbers than in the past. Using the players who are the most skilled to decide how balanced classes are versus one another is actually not bad. It's a much clearer picture of how the class itself is actually capable of performing. The problem in your "great unbalance" is more player skill and less class balance. And that's NOT something the devs can control. There's always going to be a range of skill levels amongst players and there is no way to completely correct for that. Even if they made each character completely premade and static and the exact same, there would be people who played better and people who played worse. As long as the potential for each class is relatively close together, then players can find the class that suits them. Arbiter make your head hurt? Okay, that's fine. Try something else. Barbarian too easy and boring? That's fine, try something else. Don't like how CW looks like it HAMSTER in its pants? Try something else. You'll find the one that works for you, because once you find it and get good at it, you'll be putting up big numbers too.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,750 Arc User

    this game is made for the top 5%, look at how hard every new dungeon is....casual players have no hope of beating something like TOMM, let alone zariel. this game isn't made for casual players, its made so that elite players can profit off real world transactions and funnel money back to the people coding it. it's a gigantic ponzi scheme, and you are the fools falling for it

    Why should casuals be able to do the newest/hardest as soon as it drops?
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,035 Arc User

    this game is made for the top 5%, look at how hard every new dungeon is....casual players have no hope of beating something like TOMM, let alone zariel. this game isn't made for casual players, its made so that elite players can profit off real world transactions and funnel money back to the people coding it. it's a gigantic ponzi scheme, and you are the fools falling for it

    This game does release content for casual players. M15-not one thing for endgame players, M16- same thing, not one thing for endgame players. M17-Endgame finally gets something aimed at them but the community threw a huge fit over it in the forums. M18-something for everyone with an easier dungeon than ToMM, M19-again something for everyone with another endgame trial but this time there will be a story mode for the trial...and yet "this game is made for the top 5%".
Sign In or Register to comment.