OG Combat System (Mod 5-15)

igotit4free · January 2020

@cwhitesidedev#9752

As a day 1 XBOX player who spent 5+ years building my cleric (and after my Pally) multiple times with all the changes over the years I found that after Mod16's new combat system for me was the straw that broke the camels back. I was a 12h+ a day grinder and loved the game but slowly it just became more and more a love/hate relationship. The same copy/paste heroic's and boring daily/weekly quests had slowly turned me away from the game but mostly the ignored feedback players would put forward that always fell on deaf ears and the new combat system the most. I was recently informed that the game is changing Mod19 and beyond and from what I can see def for the better thanks alot to Chris.

I've caught up on a couple of the latest dev streams and from what I'm hearing I really like the direction the game is heading with the changes that Chris wants to put forth and I can see myself maybe coming back to the game (which I didnt think would happen with the current state it's in) but I do still have my concerns if history will just repeat itself. As I said above the biggest thing was the new combat system that made up my mind to stop playing Neverwinter. I spent 5+ years building my characters only to have it over night ripped out from under me and everything I had done meant nothing having to basically start all over. It felt like a slap in the face and everything I had done was for nothing.

I see the OG dungeons will be returning (awesome) ,an evolving world and a lot of good ideas to make Neverwinter great again but I would really like the know if you intend to bring back the OG combat system the most? If you (or anyone that knows really) could answer that question It would really be appreciated. Honestly it will be the 1 deciding factor that decides if I will be coming back to the game or not. As a person that had never played an MMO before this I really did get hooked on Neverwinter but in saying that I just can't see myself coming back with the current combat system as much as I would like too. So again if I could get a def answer on if the OG combat system will return and then be expanded on that format or will the new system remain and be expanded on? TIA.

carloswartune · January 2020

Things I would like would be some buffing powers for the healers, so we can actually have something to do in easy dungeons like FBI where practically no healing is needed. I'd also like more feat options and maybe the old system where we could level up our powers. More opportunities to reduce cool-downs and recharge AP would be interesting too.

That said, I think some of the aspects of the old combat system were bad, like the infinite scrolling and exaggerated multiplicative buffing that made impossible to design challenging content. Unless they made some major number squashing, we would just keep getting dungeons with boring immunity phases and long cut-scenes (i.e. Castle Ravenloft) under that system, and not something actually challenging like ToMM. I'm also not a fan of they way lifesteal worked, making healing irrelevant. Those things can stay buried IMO.

littledanger · January 2020

I’m with you guys. I was in TLO. Manned a OP, got bored with it switched to DC. Changed over to DO for MOD14 to buff (I believe that was the mod) then back over when DO get nerfed in MOD15. Then 16 hit and I took a break. Came back a few weeks ago. I enjoyed my old DC, I could do anything with it.

I want feat options, real options that allow customization. The boons we have now are just terrible, not worth the effort that went into them honestly.

igotit4free · January 2020

@carloswartune#5709

I agree the old system wasn't flawless but it was way better than the current system. I'm hoping myself they bring back the old system and then expand on it moving forward rather than keep this new system but I understand if they don't. I went from a 12h+ a day grinder to just logging in each day to get my VIP key and log straight out because of the Mod16 changes.

@littledanger#4115

Yep, I was day 1 cleric, then pally and as I said above in my OP had to rebuild them time and time again over the years to go with the changes. After they slowly destroyed my 2 toons I ended up starting a Warlock, not long after that they nerfed the Warlock pretty bad so I then made a GWF and of course with Mod16, they destroyed that class also. It was just all too much and I left the game.

dougonius · January 2020

Don't expect any kind of response from devs here. You have to post in the PC section for that.

rjc9000 · February 2020

igotit4free said:
The same copy/paste heroic's and boring daily/weekly quests had slowly turned me away from the game but mostly the ignored feedback players would put forward that always fell on deaf ears and the new combat system the most. I was recently informed that the game is changing Mod19 and beyond and from what I can see def for the better thanks alot to Chris.

I've caught up on a couple of the latest dev streams and from what I'm hearing I really like the direction the game is heading with the changes that Chris wants to put forth and I can see myself maybe coming back to the game (which I didnt think would happen with the current state it's in) but I do still have my concerns if history will just repeat itself.

It is true that Chris is a marked improvement in terms of communication, though I'm not sure if that's because the bar wasn't very high to begin with, or if Chris is worth every dollar PWE spent hiring them.

Though I think it's a bit early that some people are saying "Chris saved NW', since most of Chris' proposed changes are just that: proposed changes, not changes actually in the game. Once his ideas get in game, then I think we can pass a more accurate judgement.

Or, in other words:

(well, minus the part about getting shot in an opera house)

carloswartune#5709 said:
Things I would like would be some buffing powers for the healers, so we can actually have something to do in easy dungeons like FBI where practically no healing is needed.

See, this is the key thing that I loved about the buff/debuff system: it involved the tanks/healers in combat besides "make sure the idiot DPS don't cry if enemies touch them" and "make sure idiot DPS don't cry when they facetank for epeen chart privileges".

I don't think we need a full return to Mod 15 buffs/debuffs where they overshadowed everything, but a few here and there with significant percentages would encourage the players to play a slightly bit differently.

One example I'd give is that Paladin's Shield of Faith gets changed into a dome with a 10' radius, but enemies inside the dome would get debuffed to take more damage from magical attacks, with the debuff percentage equal to the Paladin's WIS divided by 2.

carloswartune#5709 said:
maybe the old system where we could level up our powers.

I wouldn't want the old system of leveling up powers returned exactly like before. The reasoning was that most of the time, the only changes to powers was "this power deals more damage", so there wasn't really much of a meaningful reason to not put 3 or 4 points in powers when you could just get more points from overflow levels.

That being said, I wouldn't mind a system separate from feats that would work like Mass Effect 3's power evolutions where you can:

power up abilities to double down on the power's core effect
lower some of the drawbacks of a power but weakening the power as a result
or add on other effects to make the power as a different part of your toolkit.

Considering the sizeable amount of current passives that give extra effects to specific powers, I would say that the system is already partially in place.

carloswartune#5709 said:
That said, I think some of the aspects of the old combat system were bad, like the infinite scrolling and exaggerated multiplicative buffing that made impossible to design challenging content. Unless they made some major number squashing, we would just keep getting dungeons with boring immunity phases and long cut-scenes (i.e. Castle Ravenloft) under that system, and not something actually challenging like ToMM.

Multiplicative buffs were a problem because the devs never bothered to put a cap on group buffs. If they had capped it to, say, 100%, you probably wouldn't have had the 4x buffer teams.

Scrolls and stones of health should just be deleted from the game, period since all they do is encourage players to play poorly.

carloswartune#5709 said:
I'm also not a fan of they way lifesteal worked, making healing irrelevant. Those things can stay buried IMO.

I might have a hot take, but I'd actually want Lifesteal to come back ... for Warlock only and in a heavily nerfed form, such as "5% of encounter damage as a 5 second heal over time with 5 second internal cooldown".

Thematically, I think it it fits the "deal with the devil steal your life essence edgy rock cover art" stuff Warlock has.
It would also differentiate Warlock from Wizard by making Warlock more tanky than your typical squishy magic user.

The last reason I'd bring back Lifesteal as a Warlock exclusive mechanic is because I'd like to see a Warlock DPS spec revolving around casting spells from your own HP with 0 ICD, and being able to restore your HP with Lifesteal but not being able to gain TempHP/Barrier. It would not be overpowered because of the risk/reward dynamic of the whole "cast from HP" gimmick: cast more spells from HP, but cast too quickly and you run the risk of killing yourself and/or overtaxing your healer.

rev · February 2020

dougonius#3032 said:
Don't expect any kind of response from devs here. You have to post in the PC section for that.

unless its a cdp they won't respond to you on the pc side either

igotit4free · February 2020

Well just under 2 weeks after my original post and it looks like nothing has changed in regards to Devs/Community Managers ignoring posts directed to them (when you @ someone they get a notification) let along them listening to feedback about the game. I guess it's just all smoke and mirrors and business as usual from Cryptic. It was a fun ride Neverwinter back in the early days but if they can't even be bothered to post a simple reply of yes or no to answer my question (or anyones questions/feedback) then I don't see why I should waste anymore energy on here.

Good Luck everyone who continues to stay and thanks for your feedback above but I'm out, peace.

plasticbat · February 2020

Bring back the old combat system means it is a slap of the face for those who have stayed in the game and spend the resource and time to grind on the new system.

froger · February 2020

Meh, I've stuck with the new system and done the grind. My opinion as a cleric and barb the previous system was more fun, albeit broken.

It dawned on me last night as the random group I was struggled with ETOS. I miss being an AC. I used to be able to make almost any group shine.

milehighxr · February 2020

@cwhitesidedev#9752

Please remove scaling from this game. I was having fun with my pally in mod 15, and only now just got him back to being fun with the new rules. Now I find out that when mod 18 hits console on tuesday that even LoMM is going to be scaled. Give us a break, and stop breaking the game. Scaling has no business in NW(or any D&D type game IMHO) and yet you guys are continuing to force it on us. It seems like no matter what I do, or how I upgrade I can't get any better in the now scaled dungeons. I only see my gains in the open world PVE content. I spend(spent) most of my time in randoms farming ad to upgrade toons. I have seen zero progression in being able to do those randoms as I have been upgrading my characters, and now LoMM is being scaled too? This is unacceptable, I was looking forward to new content on tuesday, but if it's gonna be scaled eventually too, why bother playing at all, let alone spend real money upgrading characters? I don't see a point, especially when a new player can come in and complete the newest content in short order with no effort.

igcanadian1980 · March 2020

I get endgame people were ridiculously over powered in lower dungeons before. But isn’t it kind of the point? I don’t really see the enjoyment in a game where I grind for years and years and years to be worse in a dungeon than I was when I started.The item level scaling is beyond broken.I agree life stealneeded a huge Nerf, But the new place style is not enjoyable. I would be beyond happy changing the combat style back to how it was. I understood the combat style change were so people had more options of how to play their characters but there are literally less options now than they were before.

OG Combat System (Mod 5-15)

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