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Rogue 9/10 feats totally useless, Why?????
dagambit
Member Posts: 187 Arc User
I have been playing NW since it debut on XB1, and PS4. I recently this year just started playing on PC for some reason I really enjoy playing this game. I love playing a Rogue I play one on all three platforms. But I have to say Mod 16 almost ruined the game and class for me. I was never one of those that could 1 phase Orcus, but I came close 2x. Getting back on subject with the recent changes to the Rogue to me it's alittle under whelming, the game and class. Nevertheless I still play it because I enjoy it.
But when a class paragon path has 9 of 10 useless feats, where activating the feat or not does not even matter is ridiculous. I have played with and without the feats and the class performs the same maybe a little more damage because of the skullcracker feat. Assassin paragon path has no feats that say assassin at all and I can not understand why. Or why shadow of demise was moved to a path that players rarely use. SoD is just being wasted on the Whisperknife path, it really needs to be brought back over to the Assassin path.
Assassin's Target is just updated version of 1st Strike, change I would make is mark the target to take an additional 5% damage over 10s, up to 3 targets can be targeted
Toxic Blades only useful because it has a DoT effect
Knife's edge with the nerf to AP useless with a 4 second cooldown every 3-5 mins. changes I would make it on encounter power use and 3 seconds like the HR feat ""
Master Shadows just useless IMO, change I would make does not remove from stealth, with a 5 second cooldown
Duelist's Expertise up in the air about this one, if it was not in the same block as Skullcracker could be useful
Skullcracker does not give combat advantage even though it should, you can control the enemy by dazing them - useful
BackAlley Tactics - very useful with the AP nerf.
Hastily Sharpened Blades - useless unless it is changed to something like damage from melee attacks powers cause bleed effect over X amount of seconds.
Execution - useless needs to be changed/updated to something like marking the target for 8s taking 5% damage from all sources.
Shadow's Flurry - useless, does not do any real damage. Change I would make is that it spawns 3 shadowy figure that surround the target and uses the final combo of Duelist's Flurry.
And these 2 powers here need some changes as well:
Blade Flurry needs it 3 charges back with 1 to 2s cooldown, used from stealth does not go on cooldown.
Impossible to Catch is totally useless right now and should have it's duration increased to 10s to make it somewhat viable it has an 18.5s cooldown and lasts 4s.
These are just suggestions IMO to make the Rogue a little bit more enjoyable to play without just using At-Wills all day.
But when a class paragon path has 9 of 10 useless feats, where activating the feat or not does not even matter is ridiculous. I have played with and without the feats and the class performs the same maybe a little more damage because of the skullcracker feat. Assassin paragon path has no feats that say assassin at all and I can not understand why. Or why shadow of demise was moved to a path that players rarely use. SoD is just being wasted on the Whisperknife path, it really needs to be brought back over to the Assassin path.
Assassin's Target is just updated version of 1st Strike, change I would make is mark the target to take an additional 5% damage over 10s, up to 3 targets can be targeted
Toxic Blades only useful because it has a DoT effect
Knife's edge with the nerf to AP useless with a 4 second cooldown every 3-5 mins. changes I would make it on encounter power use and 3 seconds like the HR feat ""
Master Shadows just useless IMO, change I would make does not remove from stealth, with a 5 second cooldown
Duelist's Expertise up in the air about this one, if it was not in the same block as Skullcracker could be useful
Skullcracker does not give combat advantage even though it should, you can control the enemy by dazing them - useful
BackAlley Tactics - very useful with the AP nerf.
Hastily Sharpened Blades - useless unless it is changed to something like damage from melee attacks powers cause bleed effect over X amount of seconds.
Execution - useless needs to be changed/updated to something like marking the target for 8s taking 5% damage from all sources.
Shadow's Flurry - useless, does not do any real damage. Change I would make is that it spawns 3 shadowy figure that surround the target and uses the final combo of Duelist's Flurry.
And these 2 powers here need some changes as well:
Blade Flurry needs it 3 charges back with 1 to 2s cooldown, used from stealth does not go on cooldown.
Impossible to Catch is totally useless right now and should have it's duration increased to 10s to make it somewhat viable it has an 18.5s cooldown and lasts 4s.
These are just suggestions IMO to make the Rogue a little bit more enjoyable to play without just using At-Wills all day.
Rogue - Setsuna F Seiei (PC)
Rogue - Setsuna F Seiei (XB1)
Rogue - Serenity (PS4)
Rogue - Setsuna F Seiei (XB1)
Rogue - Serenity (PS4)
Post edited by dagambit on
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Comments
Everything is fine, your damage is enough for all content in the game. There's nothing a rogue can't complete as top dps.
About the feats:
Toxic blades is fine, it does damage, if you don't see the single big-HAMSTER orange number on screen it doesn't mean it isn't there.
Knife's edge and master of shadows are meh, i gotta agree with you here.
Skullcracker is irrelevant, pick duelist expertise.
Duelist expertise is better than skullcracker, because it applies to all mobs, not just one, if you hold your arti and shocking exe until your feat procs, you're in for a treat, ESPECIALLY if you crit.
Back alley tactics, i agree with you, it's good, use it.
Shadow's flurry, oh boi, gotta disagree bigtime, while it's true that it doesn't always proc, when it does it's great, it deals ALOT of damage.
Blade flurry is fine, you're not the only one with long cooldowns. Everyone has 20s cooldowns, and the abilities that don't have 20s, hit for way less.
Impossible to catch..well....yeah it's trash, got no arguments here.
I just recently dropped skullcracker and shadow's flurry from my TR build.
Skullcracker was replaced with the Duelist Expertise for the reason mentioned above by nooneatza
The shadow's flurry was dropped because half the time when it worked the shadow ended up dying before it could complete its attack or I was forced into doing ranged attacks so it was creating shadows that would just stand there.
I use the encounter power Path of Blades all the time and it seems to work really well with the Execution feat. True it does not work until the 20% mark but then again some bosses (and mobs) still have tons of HP at the 20% mark.
Shadow's Flurry: It only procures properly during a melee type of attack vs. one opponent regardless of Health % of enemy.
Execution: providing the conditions set forth by the feat are met it procures on any melee or ranged attack and with any area of effect type (path of blades) it may procure on multiple enemies at once.
In my opinion
Shadow's Flurry is the better choice for easy content and group play because of the greater chance of being able to melee a target for longer periods of time and it has a chance to work right away.
The Execution feat is the better choice for solo playing through difficult content and has the potential to also be useful in difficult group content.
Impossible To Catch adds 10K defense for a slow count of 4 seconds. How is it trash? I sometimes switch to it if needed.
Mod 16+: You muster all of your will and break free from most control effects.
Added Effect: Control Immunity. Deflect chance increased to 50%.
Duration: 4s
Stealthed: Your Movement Speed is increased by 25% and your Defense is increased by 10,000 for the duration.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Before Mod 16: You break free from most control effects and gain control immunity for 4 seconds. In addition to this, your Deflection chance is increased by 100%.
Stealthed: Your Run Speed and Damage Resistance are also increased by 25% for the duration.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion:
25% vs 10K
25% vs adding 10K defense. Why would anyone complain about this?
EDIT: HAMSTER?
I love Impossible To Catch when I need it.
Sure why not 6 seconds? However, really useful to hit a few mobs to kill them in groups and then back off; a crowd dealer. Impossible to catch isn't trash. You will be surprised how fast of a cooldown there is by using a class feature and there is a reason why you should always use sneak attack, which increases your Movement Speed by 15% and increases the cooldown rate of your powers by 10% while stealthed. You're using stealth more than a 18 second duration period waiting for Impossible To Catch to cooldown; stealthing 2-3x estimation to help the Impossible To Catch to cooldown.
More so, 10k is capped defense, and anyone who is doing end-game, in this case ToMM has defense capped, so 10k does absolutely nothing.
25% will be 25k stats.
10% will be 10k stats.
In either case, both useless, because end game player will be stat capped at 80k without those. Hence adding any more, if it's 10k or 25k is the same thing, and either is useless.
i.e. if you have 10K defense, you get 12.5K defense.
if you have 20K defense, you get 25K defense
Or, does it mean +25% of defense as an absolute number?
i.e. if you have 10K defense, you get 35K.
If you have 20K defense, you get 45K.
In new money that equates to 25'000 Defence, as DR is a figured stat not a base stat. If it said, (I've been reliably informed) +25% to Defence it would 25% of the BASE Defence stat, so in the above example where a player has 20K Defence, yes it would only add 5%. but it doesn't say that, so it's not important.
It said Damage Resistance.
The new version adds a flat 10'000 to Defence.
This adds 10% to your Damage Resistance up to cap, assuming your Defence is higher than your opponents Armour Penetration.
ITC also breaks free from "most" control effects... except the really tough ones you need it to.
I used to love ITC pre Mod 16, (it was like an extra life if I got sloppy and stopped paying attention...) now it's not very useful to anyone who is near cap on Defence or Deflect, and given the +25% Deflect severity a Rogue gets, they should be chasing Deflect as a constant near 50% rather than relying on the 4 seconds worth you get from ITC.
But my Rogue is maxed on everything except a few ToMM requirements.
I tried all sorts of builds when M16 landed to find a way to use it, just because I genuinely liked it. But in the new version of the game, it just takes up a slot that could otherwise be adding a pile of damage.
If someone is running a Rogue that doesn't have maxed stats for the content it's in, and is prepared to wait about 15-18 seconds for that 4 second window, and waste Stealth in so doing, before putting itself in harms way, then yeah... ITC is useful.
Sadly, because of the way stats now work, anything that adds a flat number to a base stat will eventually become utterly redundant.
Unless they plan on upping monsters stats without adding player gear to balance the increase, and do this over enough modules that no one is capable of maxing their stats to hit their caps, such situational short fire +10K to Defence style bonuses will be so insignificantly small, they will be effectively useless. (Even more so than now.)
And if they DID do that, I imagine a scenario with villagers armed with pitchforks and burning torches storming the gates of Castle Cryptic rather than a cheer that "Ohh! Now ITC is finally useful!!! Hooray"
Rogue - Setsuna F Seiei (XB1)
Rogue - Serenity (PS4)
To put it simply, impossible to catch gives a total upper hand in PvP against most classes as it recovers from all control effects but knockdowns (I look at you - fighter) and gives total immunity for 4 seconds. That's more than enough to get stealth back and forget prepare to strike or run away after dodging a possible daily cast while opponent cc'ed you. Not to mention a guaranteed 50% deflect chance w/ 75% severity which is most likely increased over that by shadowclad and duellist's expertise. Of course, after your stealth and cc immunity runs out you will still have to use your remaining 12-10 seconds without control immunity. I will not give an expanded guide to rogue here, just so that you know that you have to be [b]smart[/b] about using encounter powers and your surroundings.
Rogue is not for everyone. Encounter powers are mostly fine, even if situational, but that is a topic for different thread - it's a thread about feats, not encounter powers.
> I have been playing NW since it debut on XB1, and PS4. I recently this year just started playing on PC for some reason I really enjoy playing this game. I love playing a Rogue I play one on all three platforms. But I have to say Mod 16 almost ruined the game and class for me. I was never one of those that could 1 phase Orcus, but I came close 2x. Getting back on subject with the recent changes to the Rogue to me it's alittle under whelming, the game and class. Nevertheless I still play it because I enjoy it.
>
> But when a class paragon path has 9 of 10 useless feats, where activating the feat or not does not even matter is ridiculous. I have played with and without the feats and the class performs the same maybe a little more damage because of the skullcracker feat. Assassin paragon path has no feats that say assassin at all and I can not understand why. Or why shadow of demise was moved to a path that players rarely use. SoD is just being wasted on the Whisperknife path, it really needs to be brought back over to the Assassin path.
>
> Assassin's Target is just updated version of 1st Strike, change I would make is mark the target to take an additional 5% damage over 10s, up to 3 targets can be targeted
> Toxic Blades only useful because it has a DoT effect
> Knife's edge with the nerf to AP useless with a 4 second cooldown every 3-5 mins. changes I would make it on encounter power use and 3 seconds like the HR feat ""
> Master Shadows just useless IMO, change I would make does not remove from stealth, with a 5 second cooldown
> Duelist's Expertise up in the air about this one, if it was not in the same block as Skullcracker could be useful
> Skullcracker does not give combat advantage even though it should, you can control the enemy by dazing them - useful
> BackAlley Tactics - very useful with the AP nerf.
> Hastily Sharpened Blades - useless unless it is changed to something like damage from melee attacks powers cause bleed effect over X amount of seconds.
> Execution - useless needs to be changed/updated to something like marking the target for 8s taking 5% damage from all sources.
> Shadow's Flurry - useless, does not do any real damage. Change I would make is that it spawns 3 shadowy figure that surround the target and uses the final combo of Duelist's Flurry.
>
> And these 2 powers here need some changes as well:
> Blade Flurry needs it 3 charges back with 1 to 2s cooldown, used from stealth does not go on cooldown.
> Impossible to Catch is totally useless right now and should have it's duration increased to 10s to make it somewhat viable it has an 18.5s cooldown and lasts 4s.
>
> These are just suggestions IMO to make the Rogue a little bit more enjoyable to play without just using At-Wills all day.
Rogue's damage for the most part is just fine. Yes the feats / powers are mucked up from mod 15 and it can use some fine tuning. Sure as a WK rogue in the new mod I can use a small buff or two but the issue is not the feats. The biggest problem is that the most "damage" gear is designed more so for assasins. Shadowstalker rings for example are not ideal for a WK rogue as I am a hybrid of range and melee. So i am not always 25' or less from my target in which case those rings do nothing.
The other issue is that the DoTs probably take to much damage, so an assasin can pop a aoe and take a nap while dots do all the work for them. ( EXAGERRATING a little bit to make a point).
Far as FEATS go i have the best rogue feats in the game and have no interest in playing assassin and being bored out of my skull. SoD and 20% damage in stealth with full stealth bar are far better than any Assasin feats (MY OPINION). Leave my SoD alone please.... if anything bring invisible infiltrator to WK please and thanks.
Rogue - Setsuna F Seiei (XB1)
Rogue - Serenity (PS4)
In response to your mentioning Ebony Ring ... OF COURSE I use it but that is not why the Shadow rings are so good. What makes Shadow rings good for assasins is that they stack IN ADDITION TO the melee buffs. So an assasin can stack the 6% melee (bear chest/heels fury) with the 4.5% shadow rings (and ebony chest etc which are available to both classes), and it applies to every skill they use as they use all melee stuff (and are almost always 25' or closer). While sure I can use them too they will only really work half the time so there is no point. For the record i also use the assault ring so i get both 3% melee and 3% range.