Merchant Prince mobs

superkiwi1966 · August 2019

The mobs in the first room of this dungeon are really annoying as they swarm and don't give people a chance to kill them fast enough and so people die over and over again until they leave the run.
Wouldn't it be nice if the number of them was cut down a little to give people a chance to get past the first room

poisd2strike · August 2019

It is entirely possible to kill all of the mobs that spawn in the 1st area of MPF, without anyone dying. It helps to have a healer in the group, but that isn't a requirement. Sure, it used to be a bit easier last mod when we still had lifesteal but it is very doable even in Mod 16. People need to realize this isn't Mod 15 anymore. Scaling means that lesser geared and / or skilled players cannot be carried anymore. I main a 24k IL DPS Warlock and make sure to have my Daily (Gates of Hell) ready, just in case I need to use it in that area. I also use the Decanter of Atropal Essence and Dreadtheft, to deal with large groups in that area. If there is no healer and depending upon group makeup, I may have to use a few Stones of Health. I have completed MPF several times as my RIQ with a Gold ranking in Mod 16.

cherryman1 · August 2019

poisd2strike#7598 said:
It is entirely possible to kill all of the mobs that spawn in the 1st area of MPF, without anyone dying. It helps to have a healer in the group, but that isn't a requirement. Sure, it used to be a bit easier last mod when we still had lifesteal but it is very doable even in Mod 16. People need to realize this isn't Mod 15 anymore. Scaling means that lesser geared and / or skilled players cannot be carried anymore. I main a 24k IL DPS Warlock and make sure to have my Daily (Gates of Hell) ready, just in case I need to use it in that area. I also use the Decanter of Atropal Essence and Dreadtheft, to deal with large groups in that area. If there is no healer and depending upon group makeup, I may have to use a few Stones of Health. I have completed MPF several times as my RIQ with a Gold ranking in Mod 16.

I believe the content is stated for 14k characters as the minimum or target audience. Can you say you will have the same results with a group of all 14k toons as you do with your 24k SW?

poisd2strike · August 2019

cherryman1 said:

poisd2strike#7598 said:
It is entirely possible to kill all of the mobs that spawn in the 1st area of MPF, without anyone dying. It helps to have a healer in the group, but that isn't a requirement. Sure, it used to be a bit easier last mod when we still had lifesteal but it is very doable even in Mod 16. People need to realize this isn't Mod 15 anymore. Scaling means that lesser geared and / or skilled players cannot be carried anymore. I main a 24k IL DPS Warlock and make sure to have my Daily (Gates of Hell) ready, just in case I need to use it in that area. I also use the Decanter of Atropal Essence and Dreadtheft, to deal with large groups in that area. If there is no healer and depending upon group makeup, I may have to use a few Stones of Health. I have completed MPF several times as my RIQ with a Gold ranking in Mod 16.
I believe the content is stated for 14k characters as the minimum or target audience. Can you say you will have the same results with a group of all 14k toons as you do with your 24k SW?

No. Of course not. But I have run MPF with several other players who had a substantially lower IL than I do. Sometimes it goes well and sometimes it does not. Regardless, scaling makes it impossible for a higher IL player like me to carry substantially lower IL players. If the OP has issues with MFP, just wait until he randomly queues and gets Manycoins Bank Heist. That is a nightmare, compared to MPF, especially if there is no healer. The one and only time I have randomly queued and gotten Manycoins Bank Heist, it was a disaster. We had no healer and people kept dying. I was the last to die out of the group. Before going back in, I checked the scoreboard. I was at the top with just over 2.1 million damage, followed by 1 million, followed by 400k. Within 10 seconds of me going back in, the Vault had been destroyed. We didn't even manage to close 1 of the portals. Once I saw the other 4 players wanted to try again, I typed "I'll take the leaver penalty", left the queue, did something else for 30 minutes, re-queued and got a different dungeon that I was able to complete. Instead of reducing the mobs in something like MPF or Manycoins Bank Heist, perhaps Cryptic should require 1 Tank, 1 Healer and 3 DPS for those.

mordekai · August 2019

cherryman1 said:

poisd2strike#7598 said:
It is entirely possible to kill all of the mobs that spawn in the 1st area of MPF, without anyone dying. It helps to have a healer in the group, but that isn't a requirement. Sure, it used to be a bit easier last mod when we still had lifesteal but it is very doable even in Mod 16. People need to realize this isn't Mod 15 anymore. Scaling means that lesser geared and / or skilled players cannot be carried anymore. I main a 24k IL DPS Warlock and make sure to have my Daily (Gates of Hell) ready, just in case I need to use it in that area. I also use the Decanter of Atropal Essence and Dreadtheft, to deal with large groups in that area. If there is no healer and depending upon group makeup, I may have to use a few Stones of Health. I have completed MPF several times as my RIQ with a Gold ranking in Mod 16.
I believe the content is stated for 14k characters as the minimum or target audience. Can you say you will have the same results with a group of all 14k toons as you do with your 24k SW?

Of course they wouldn't.
And quite right too.
That 14K marker is NOT the "target audience" and doesn't mean "Should be easy enough for a group of entirely just-reached IL 14K characters"

If you are going into any content and are at the very minimum required level, expect it to be extremely hard. If the entire group is at that minimum IL then good luck, because it will be incredibly difficult to survive as a group, and getting Gold on MPF with 5 IL-14K toons would be something close to a miracle. (Almost as unlikely as a Barbarian staying behind in the 1st section to help rouse the guards and sort the weapons.)

cherryman1 · August 2019

mordekai#1901 said:

Of course they wouldn't.
And quite right too.
That 14K marker is NOT the "target audience" and doesn't mean "Should be easy enough for a group of entirely just-reached IL 14K characters"

If you are going into any content and are at the very minimum required level, expect it to be extremely hard. If the entire group is at that minimum IL then good luck, because it will be incredibly difficult to survive as a group, and getting Gold on MPF with 5 IL-14K toons would be something close to a miracle. (Almost as unlikely as a Barbarian staying behind in the 1st section to help rouse the guards and sort the weapons.)

Then who is target audience? The player who is end game talking about a piece of intermediate content or a player whose item level is at least just over the halfway point into the game (27k is max) making statements on intermediate content difficulty?

mordekai · August 2019

cherryman1 said:

mordekai#1901 said:

Of course they wouldn't.
And quite right too.
That 14K marker is NOT the "target audience" and doesn't mean "Should be easy enough for a group of entirely just-reached IL 14K characters"

If you are going into any content and are at the very minimum required level, expect it to be extremely hard. If the entire group is at that minimum IL then good luck, because it will be incredibly difficult to survive as a group, and getting Gold on MPF with 5 IL-14K toons would be something close to a miracle. (Almost as unlikely as a Barbarian staying behind in the 1st section to help rouse the guards and sort the weapons.)
Then who is target audience? The player who is end game talking about a piece of intermediate content or a player whose item level is at least just over the halfway point into the game (27k is max) making statements on intermediate content difficulty?

There isn't a "Target audience". Unless you mean the entire player base.

It's there for anyone to try who meets the minimum criteria. But as with anything where you are going in at the lowest access point, don't expect to do very well if you only just qualify.

The minimum IL is basically a gauge of the lowest one would expect to be and survive IF they are in an otherwise stronger party.

Maybe they should add an "advised IL" so that its easier for people to understand that if they are going into a queue hovering on the point of its minimum item Level requirement that its going to be a LOT harder than if they are of a noticeably higher Item Level.

But having to explain that on every queue list does feel a bit like putting a "warning this product may contain nuts" sticker on a packet of nuts.

To be honest, given the free gear available now, it shouldn't take very long to get to get to 16-18K even without big guild boon numbers.

Content made specifically easy for characters who are going to get noticeably better relatively quickly exists in the leveling queues.

The whole point of increasingly harder content is to play the game to improve your character to become good enough to run it, not to make the content easy for everyone.

cherryman1 · August 2019

There is a target audience. The problem is that we have players that don't know that so they play end game and give feedback on content based on their end game toons for content that is meant to be for the mid game players. While I think minimum item levels should struggle to even finish intermediate content, I also get to see mid game players leave because players who are end game are giving the main amount of feedback for content that they shouldn't be running all the time. RIQ is the equivalent to RAQ in mod 15 in terms of newer players trying to beat that content. Right now the target audience of the content based on difficulty is closer to a 20k to 22k character. If your a new player who puts $100 into the game this means you should be able to get into it and expect to clear the content without a carry after 6 months in the game. This isn't good for retention of players which need more than 24k of rAD per day and won't do random leveling queue at 10 to 20 minute queues for 1k rAD on repeat.

mebengalsfan · August 2019

amadmongrel said:
The mobs in the first room of this dungeon are really annoying as they swarm and don't give people a chance to kill them fast enough and so people die over and over again until they leave the run.

Wouldn't it be nice if the number of them was cut down a little to give people a chance to get past the first room

The problem I see with most content is that players don't have enough defensive stats to take the hits in lower content. They also don't have enough armor pen, critical strike or accuracy to ensure that they are maximizing their damage. That is the problem I have seen in all content that is not LoMM. Players build their characters for LoMM without taking into consideration that in lower content your stats are scaled down and quite a bit. I may have more than needed for armor pen and critical strike for LoMM but in lower content my stats are still not high enough to produce max damage but I'm not far off from where I should be.

If you build your character to have stats for ToMM than you should be fine for most lower content.

cherryman1 · August 2019

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

amadmongrel said:
The mobs in the first room of this dungeon are really annoying as they swarm and don't give people a chance to kill them fast enough and so people die over and over again until they leave the run.

Wouldn't it be nice if the number of them was cut down a little to give people a chance to get past the first room
The problem I see with most content is that players don't have enough defensive stats to take the hits in lower content. They also don't have enough armor pen, critical strike or accuracy to ensure that they are maximizing their damage. That is the problem I have seen in all content that is not LoMM. Players build their characters for LoMM without taking into consideration that in lower content your stats are scaled down and quite a bit. I may have more than needed for armor pen and critical strike for LoMM but in lower content my stats are still not high enough to produce max damage but I'm not far off from where I should be.

If you build your character to have stats for ToMM than you should be fine for most lower content.

To add on to this the players who are at minimum item levels have about the same amount of stats that end game characters have after being scaled down in the content. This means that even if they were going into the content and not being scaled they wouldn't meet the minimums for the content. Then when scaled they are getting hit for 2x to 5x more damage and doing 5x to 10x less damage than the scaled end game players. For these new players they need to add a minimum scaling number for all stats so the new players can at least participate in the content they can get into. This would also help with the people telling someone to get better stats when they don't even have minimums to begin with but are able to get into the content.

Merchant Prince mobs

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