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Effort + Difficulty ≠ Reward

krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 754 Arc User
So just using one factor here however; there are plenty of other examples I could use in the game. But for sake of length and annoyance factor I am only going to use the new mod 16 weapon sets.

The Alabaster set is acquired by running a Master Expedition and awarded once the quest is turned in by RNG chance. So you have 3 chances per day to get the set. The MEs are easy, take a bit of time but fairly easy even solable on one or two runes, but I am sure there are a few who have soloed on 3 rune runs.

The Watcher set is acquired by running a Master Expedition with a chance that a "puppet" spawns allowing you to give it an essence to spawn a new boss. The problem here is that to acquire the essences you must have completed the Lair of the Mad Mage at least once before they start being rewarded in the end chest. This means prior rewards before you can even begin this task. It doesn't stop there, you must also have a decent party who are able to handle and defeat the new spawned boss. Then on top of this if you were successful in defeating the boss, there is a One in Five chance (5 party members) that you will be rewarded with a watcher weapon drop. However; it gets worse, you have a One in Eight chance that the weapon you got is for the class you want it for (meaning your main class).

So clearly the second weapon set is much harder to obtain but when you compare the two weapons they are so similar in what they do that the extra that the Watcher set "might" give is so negligible that its not worth the effort. The pay off for trying to obtain the Watcher Set is not enough for what is involved in getting it.

This is The Cloaked Agency and Storm Kings Thunder all over again. If you have playing during these campaign releases you will already know where I am headed with this argument. But if you are new, you wouldn't know the grind and the insane requirement to restore the artifact weapons from these campaigns that were immediately rendered obsolete when the next new mod was released. In some cases to restore just one piece of the set would require six weeks of grinding and another six weeks for the other piece. A total of three months just to get a set that becomes useless in a few months.

Comments

  • dafrca#4810 dafrca Member Posts: 469 Arc User
    While I agree with your overall point, one minor correction.
    "...to acquire the essences you must have completed the Lair of the Mad Mage at least once before they start being rewarded in the end chest."
    I get the essences and have not completed the Lair of the Mad Mage. Tried but not completed it. I believe just entering the dungeon gives the flag you need. I know minor point but other than that, back to your key points....
  • wisper2048wisper2048 Member Posts: 187 Arc User

    While I agree with your overall point, one minor correction.
    "...to acquire the essences you must have completed the Lair of the Mad Mage at least once before they start being rewarded in the end chest."
    I get the essences and have not completed the Lair of the Mad Mage. Tried but not completed it. I believe just entering the dungeon gives the flag you need. I know minor point but other than that, back to your key points....

    They possibly have fixed it. I tried to enter LoMM after friday's patch and I still do not get essences on 3 characters that have done it. So it is possibly completion now.
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator

    While I agree with your overall point, one minor correction.
    "...to acquire the essences you must have completed the Lair of the Mad Mage at least once before they start being rewarded in the end chest."
    I get the essences and have not completed the Lair of the Mad Mage. Tried but not completed it. I believe just entering the dungeon gives the flag you need. I know minor point but other than that, back to your key points....

    They possibly have fixed it. I tried to enter LoMM after friday's patch and I still do not get essences on 3 characters that have done it. So it is possibly completion now.
    It could be that you need to be in a party with somebody that completed it or reach/attempt the first boss.
    FrozenFire
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,818 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    Well, as mentioned before, the Alabaster weapon set should have been rewarded at the end of the Undermountain campaign instead of the crappy green weapon set they're handing out at the moment.

    I'm not going to buy the way overpriced Delver's Expedition Pack, and i doubt even with the changes mentioned here
    https://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/1248907/undermountain-owlbear-patch-notes-nw-110-20190519a-2
    many other players will consider buying that pack, so could we pretty please with cream on top get a less frustrating way towards a decent weapon set before the next module with another new weapon set comes around?

    Yes, i got the Alabaster set on one character within a few ME runs, but i also have some characters with only one or even none part of it after several "9 relics collected" ME runs too...
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • bpstuartbpstuart Member Posts: 215 Arc User
    This is why i play the game on my terms and not these rat-races they call events.

    Hamster may be the profanity and i may throw it around jokingly but i am not a Hamster in a wheel, running for the amusement of an on looker.

    sure my gear is sub optimal but if i am gonna play it is gonna be for fun, not stressing for poultry chances at rewards that may not even be of use to me.
    I wish they would just focus on fun again and not what ever Mod16 has been doing.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    The whole mod’s gear model is a failure.

    Run MEs to get Mountain Seals, but get better drops from in MEs than you get from Mountain Seals.

    Alabaster is RNG walled.

    Mountaineer Set is pay walled.

    Watcher Set is triple RNG walled.

    Only the Burnished Set is practically obtainable, if you can run LotMM to farm it.

    Multiple Artifacts are locked behind RNG.

    All of this is made worse by the fact that the majority of the gear on offer is worth nothing anyway.

    If the weapons were not so much ahead on base damage they wouldn’t be worth getting at all. (And if LotMM didn’t have 2 DPS checks they still wouldn’t be.)
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator

    All of this is made worse by the fact that the majority of the gear on offer is worth nothing anyway.

    I'd say that's the point. It gives you something to work for but you aren't forced into needing it for getting anywhere.

    If the weapons were not so much ahead on base damage they wouldn’t be worth getting at all. (And if LotMM didn’t have 2 DPS checks they still wouldn’t be.)

    You could still use the cult/ebonized sets and be pretty close.
    FrozenFire
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,818 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    Well, to use the ebonized weapon set, it would have to drop completely first...

    3x ebonized maces
    2x Alabaster swords
    0x shields
    on my paladin this far, and no way to exchange them in any way either.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User

    All of this is made worse by the fact that the majority of the gear on offer is worth nothing anyway.

    I'd say that's the point. It gives you something to work for but you aren't forced into needing it for getting anywhere.

    If the weapons were not so much ahead on base damage they wouldn’t be worth getting at all. (And if LotMM didn’t have 2 DPS checks they still wouldn’t be.)

    You could still use the cult/ebonized sets and be pretty close.
    You really think that some of the most difficult to obtain gear in the game now (Apprentice, Refined Successor) should be worse than 254 iL lower and considerably easier to get?

    Oh and on my lesser geared toons I have used Ebonized weapons while farming Alabaster.... but you seem to have missed the point.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    they made a mistake when increasing gear item level and stats now only radiant and empowered on offensive enchantments/runestones are slotted on player/companion gear and defense slots can be 1 of each defensive stat 1 awareness, 1 defense, 1 deflect and 1 critical avoidance enchantments or triple stats to trim cap defensive stats, in a few year maybe we will go down to 2 stats on offensive char slots in gear and keep empowered on companion gear, then they make us change to triple stats enchantments and introduce 2x stats runestones for companion gear, and then force us to triple stats enchantments on char gear offense slot and introduce companion triple stats runestones for companion gear, successor gear might have higher item level but equip bonus are terrible, no point getting them, not even worth restoring it for few 100 points in stats, to make this gear worth it you need to remove bonding runestones from game and use companion bolster percentage as stats shared percentage with the player and the more legendary companions player has on summoned companion family the better the percentage is as shared stats, also companion influence stat % need to leave game( this is a huge pay to win mechanic that can make or break(mostly break, wipe player base) the game forever).
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    arcanjo86 said:

    they made a mistake when increasing gear item level and stats now only radiant and empowered on offensive enchantments/runestones are slotted on player/companion gear and defense slots can be 1 of each defensive stat 1 awareness, 1 defense, 1 deflect and 1 critical avoidance enchantments or triple stats to trim cap defensive stats, in a few year maybe we will go down to 2 stats on offensive char slots in gear and keep empowered on companion gear, then they make us change to triple stats enchantments and introduce 2x stats runestones for companion gear, and then force us to triple stats enchantments on char gear offense slot and introduce companion triple stats runestones for companion gear, successor gear might have higher item level but equip bonus are terrible, no point getting them, not even worth restoring it for few 100 points in stats, to make this gear worth it you need to remove bonding runestones from game and use companion bolster percentage as stats shared percentage with the player and the more legendary companions player has on summoned companion family the better the percentage is as shared stats, also companion influence stat % need to leave game( this is a huge pay to win mechanic that can make or break(mostly break, wipe player base) the game forever).

    Simple solution to resolve enchantment issue is this....lower stats on gear and increase stats on enchantments.

    Wait, they did just that with what is going to pre-view and soon it will be released. The problem right now with this update is that players on PC already have made enchantment swaps and can't redo this and now will have to buy or make other enchantments. That is another bad customer experience in this game.

    Seriously Cryptic, are you going to add back the merchant for enchantment exchanges for the PC players, if not you are really hurting them.

    I want to point out I was one of a few players that grinded out day one of Omu to get the Tyrant set and it was inferior to the primal set. I spent more time and AD getting the Tyrant set than others did getting the primal.

    The best set should have multiple RNG and should do around 5% more damage than the 2nd best set. Second best set should come from a vendor or should be fairly easy to obtain in the game. The 3rd best you should be able to purchase and it should be very similar to the 2nd best set. And there should only be 5 sets with the last two being crafted and the set awarded after completing a campaign. The crafted set should be designed for support characters and fairly cheap with the campaign set simply providing some type of stat boost for a short period of time or something along those lines.

    I liked how Omu weapons were introduced and how most of them worked. The only issue I had was with the Tyrant set basically being inferior to the primal.
  • darkesheardarkeshear Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    Alabaster is RNG walled.


    This has been SO annoying for me. Whereas RNG may work for SOME people (the 'lucky' ones), it does NOT work for everyone. I have heard SO many people complaining because of the duplicate Alabaster sets that they are getting, when I have not even gotten a single drop as of yet. I have been running MEs now for about 3 weeks, on TWO chars, and have gotten NEITHER piece on EITHER char. I have tried running 1, 2 AND 3 rune runs, and even solo up to 1 rune and NOTHING. What I DO keep getting, is the 882 pieces of gear or 909s that I already have. So to summarize, I am almost tire of the daily grind for nothing. Awesome for all of you that have already gotten your Alabaster set or even one piece and have to SUFFER with duplicates. Must be nice. Im about done with Cryptic, just like I rage quit WoW.
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    You can always use those spare main hands for other enchantments you have
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • lukejones77lukejones77 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 282 Arc User
    regenerde said:

    Well, as mentioned before, the Alabaster weapon set should have been rewarded at the end of the Undermountain campaign instead of the crappy green weapon set they're handing out at the moment.
    ....

    Disagree. If you look at the various lev 80 weapon sets, conditions that trigger their specific ability, and the expected up time of that ability (especially if you're ranged), then the Alabaster is likely the best of all the weapon sets, and should be the hardest to acquire - not simply handed out after campaign completion.

    In fact, I think you should be incentivized to chase a good weapon set after campaign completion, as your "next thing". It shouldn't be any of the top tier sets, let alone the Alabaster.
  • hitchslappedhitchslapped Member Posts: 284 Arc User
    tbh, we should be able to get 1 set for generic seals, 1 set for seals from the new dungeon, 1 set from the tradebar store which should be tradeable, and one set as drops from specific content ( and these should also be tradeable ), with the drop from content set having a counter somewhat like enchantment refining now does. rng chance of drop, but if you do the content for the drop x many times without a drop... the next run will get you a drop.

    we should be able to know exactly what it's going to take to get them. ideally this would apply to things like the 1000 ilvl gear from the zokboxes, too. open x many zokboxes, rng chance on every open, but guaranteed some worthwhile gear drop every x many zokboxes. there can still be rng in terms of not being guaranteed a specific piece of the 1000 ilvl gear, or a specific artifact, just one on the list of those specific categories.
  • hitchslappedhitchslapped Member Posts: 284 Arc User
    like, don't get me wrong, i'm not saying we shouldn't ever have to grind to get stuff. all i'm saying is that the grind we have to do should be either a fixed amount, or a *capped* amount. none of this " yeah this guy got it on day one, and a year later, this guy still hasn't managed to get it " HAMSTER like we've seen wit ring drops from fane, or like how alabaster weapons are turning out for some of us.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,818 Arc User
    edited May 2019

    regenerde said:

    Well, as mentioned before, the Alabaster weapon set should have been rewarded at the end of the Undermountain campaign instead of the crappy green weapon set they're handing out at the moment.
    ....

    Disagree. If you look at the various lev 80 weapon sets, conditions that trigger their specific ability, and the expected up time of that ability (especially if you're ranged), then the Alabaster is likely the best of all the weapon sets, and should be the hardest to acquire - not simply handed out after campaign completion.

    In fact, I think you should be incentivized to chase a good weapon set after campaign completion, as your "next thing". It shouldn't be any of the top tier sets, let alone the Alabaster.
    Well, i do hope you realise how ridiculous this sounds, considering that you can simply buy a top tier weapon set from the ZEN shop... besides, what's the point in introducing new gear to the game with nearly every new module that regular players might get when it's pretty much obsolete? Do you want to see even more players leave the game by increasing the allready crazy level of grind towards an insane level for some decent stuff?

    I'm not asking for getting the top notch items being handed to me on a silver platter for just logging into the game... but for fudge's sake the time to get something good should be within reason, and that's currently not the case in oh so many ways.
    At the end of the day it's still a game, so playing it should be fun and rewarding.

    Not to mention how laughable it has become to get from level 70 to 80 by doing Stronghold quests... i had a level 73 alt. character handing in one old Stronghold quest and i reached 80 instantly. The magic of scaling... i guess i'm going to get all my other alt. characters to level 80 before this is changed again too.

    Anyway, i'm not against giving some players their 1% carrot to go after, but there should also be something usefull around for everyone else.
    Post edited by regenerde on
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 754 Arc User

    regenerde said:

    Well, as mentioned before, the Alabaster weapon set should have been rewarded at the end of the Undermountain campaign instead of the crappy green weapon set they're handing out at the moment.
    ....

    Disagree. If you look at the various lev 80 weapon sets, conditions that trigger their specific ability, and the expected up time of that ability (especially if you're ranged), then the Alabaster is likely the best of all the weapon sets, and should be the hardest to acquire - not simply handed out after campaign completion.

    In fact, I think you should be incentivized to chase a good weapon set after campaign completion, as your "next thing". It shouldn't be any of the top tier sets, let alone the Alabaster.
    There is a consequence to your idea here that I doubt you have considered. So let's say you have to do some work, maybe complete the end dungeon before you can get a "good" arty weapon set. So you get it, then what? Nothing? Game over?

    Although in one way I agree with you, that effort should be put in for the reward but when its ridiculously tedious behind multiple layers of RNG it no longer becomes fun or a goal. It's just one big annoyance factor.

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