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Suggestion: Increase Tank Threat Generation
vorphied
Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
After playing as a DPS with a range of tanks, of varying classes and item levels, my feedback is that it should be a little bit easier for the tank role to manage threat. Tearing aggro off of good, near-equivalent ilvl tanks should not be a constant.
On one hand, it’s not necessarily a bad thing that tanks require some investment and skill to be effective, but I’m becoming concerned that many players will become discouraged by the difficulty of holding threat.
I feel that a tank should not have to be as decked out as their DPS partners just to have a shot at performing their role. Why? Because a tank who can’t control threat is basically dead weight. DPS has a wide scale of usefulness, while a tank is generally either holding threat or completely failing to do so.
Finally, because DPS have no aggro dumps in their kits that I can think of, other than dying, the burden of threat management is 100% on the tank. I don’t think making it easier for up-and-coming tanks to do their role is a terrible idea.
On one hand, it’s not necessarily a bad thing that tanks require some investment and skill to be effective, but I’m becoming concerned that many players will become discouraged by the difficulty of holding threat.
I feel that a tank should not have to be as decked out as their DPS partners just to have a shot at performing their role. Why? Because a tank who can’t control threat is basically dead weight. DPS has a wide scale of usefulness, while a tank is generally either holding threat or completely failing to do so.
Finally, because DPS have no aggro dumps in their kits that I can think of, other than dying, the burden of threat management is 100% on the tank. I don’t think making it easier for up-and-coming tanks to do their role is a terrible idea.
Sacrilege - Warlock
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Post edited by vorphied on
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Threat only works on things that you are directly damaging. So if the tank isn’t always damaging the target then they quite quickly loose threat.
The second part of the problem is that tanks cannot see what they have aggro on without looking at each individual enemy. So for the tank it looks like they have “all the aggro”, but it’s only what they are looking at. (Same for everyone else, you see the threat on your target.)
Nothing a tank has gives them aggro without using a power/doing damage and nothing sustains that except repeated application of the same.
So, aggro works, it just doesn’t work in a way that tanks can really do anything about. Giving them more aggro will not fix it.
The way aggro works needs to change.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
IMO the following needs to change:
1. tank mitigation needs to be increased back to 80% (make us different from everyone else)
2. Epic mobs need to hit much harder/faster rate and have some variety to them that challenges.
3. proper tools need to be given to manage hate. whether its dumping or gaining.
4. Wider selection of healing options made available.
5. Crowd control.
6. Encounters (I mean fights in dungeons not spells) designed to make the above interactions challenging and fun so the whole party is engaged in a meaningful way.
If we cant have the unique action MMO we started with at least work on adding some complexity to game play.
None of the above are solutions to the issue I'm describing (where a tank is playing correctly and still has no hope of doing their job).
Having DPS run away screaming until the tank can finally claim aggro is not a viable option, especially when the tank cannot keep it even if they do get it back. It's far easier to drop the tank for a second healer and let the highest DPS tank the boss through heals and shields.
This is happening repeatedly in end-game content, during single-target encounters. DPS and healers don't need to be BiS in order to contribute to a party, but a non-BiS tank in a highly-geared party that's not playing badly doesn't seem to have the tools to do their job consistently, which IMO is an issue with the role.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
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> Try using shadowclad armor enchant, its proc puts you in stealth and drops aggro. It is something all dps with aggro issues can use. I play end game OP tank and end game Barb dps. I don't have issue holding threat honestly especially in single target encounters, and as far as taking aggro as my barb shadowclad helps. It adds to deflect and gives me a stealth/threat wipe when I take too many hits.
That’s the key: an end-game tank shouldn’t be required to counter an end-game DPS.
If we use LOMM as an example, you don’t need to fill a party with end-game DPS in order to succeed. They can still contribute meaningfully and complete the dungeon as long as they can handle mimics at Arcturia. The tank, on the other hand, needs to be at least on par, build-wise, with the strongest DPS in the party to have reliable threat management.
I am curious about Shadowclad, though.... The threat reduction works on boss critters? Also, are you not having difficulty building enough stacks to activate the bonus now that some natural deflection is a given?
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
>
> I think mod 16 is designed to tear off aggro from a tank that is why there is an aggro meter/gauge above the character name. If the gauge is full yellow, it means u are about to steal the aggro. If the dps is smart enough, he will break off from the fight and lower the meter to perhaps green before going back in. I hate it when dps steals the aggro from me and then got insta killed and then screaming that i was not doing my job as a tank. But i was not discouraged by that coz it made me smirk coz he deserve it and will never get a revive from me. A dps who doesn't have discipline is basically a dead weight. You will not come up with the suggestion to increase tank's threat generation if u know the mechanics or party gameplay. That is why i replied above some tips for all dps to try out. I hope we are now on the same page and i apologize for sounding rude, I'm not good in English.
You’re not rude, no worries.
The problem is that DPS disengaging as a form of aggro management is useful only when they are correcting a mistake or on a one-off basis.
If the DPS’ threat generation consistently and widely outpaces that of the tank, backing off to let the tank reclaim aggro is not going to work (the DPS will take it back as soon as they start attacking again).
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
It is hard to hold threat for a gf tank when you cant get a hit in edgewise cause you are too busy trying to stand up way too often. 23k il gf tank with 500+k hp getting knocked back with the shield up several times during a boss and/or mob fight. gf tank needs to be doing damage to hold threat.
imo, knockbacks are part of the game i understand but they are far too common all over the map atm.