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PVP Artifact needs fixing.

alfalolzalfalolz Member Posts: 161 Arc User
edited May 2019 in PvP Discussion
First of all i would love to thank the devs for fixing reflect boon in almost instant request.

Hovewer, with the new mod16, all artifacts were changed. For instance cleric seal used to give 100% Action Points being mything, it was nuered to be 25%. Im ok with that, that is fair and i see where you going.

BUT

You forgot to nerf that book artifact (Sorry i dont know its name in english) the one that stuns, gives damage and gives 75 AP every second for over 15 seconds.

Which means in 15 seconds someone having that book artifact can get his 100% AP. Im afraid that you forgot to tune this one down along the way.

p.s. also there is some sort of a bug paladin has, THEY CAN LITERALLY SPAM dailies in pvp non stop. Ill try to make a video if i get in that situation today.

Post edited by alfalolz on

Comments

  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    You are talking about the Final Chapter of the Envenomed Storyteller's Journal? Yea, the AP gain is extreme - both for PvE and PvP. I guess it will be nerfed into uselessness at some point.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • alfalolzalfalolz Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    You are talking about the Final Chapter of the Envenomed Storyteller's Journal? Yea, the AP gain is extreme - both for PvE and PvP. I guess it will be nerfed into uselessness at some point.

    Ohh yea, that is the one, i dont really mind it being that way in PVE but PVP it brings a lot of dis balance.

    Pls Devs consider adjusting the changes.
  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    I was looking at some ACT logs for some ME's I ran the other day, for one player, that envenomed journal artifact accounted for 21% of the total AP gain and 14% of all their damage. Not to even mention the effect that so much ap gain has on dps, and then there is the damage buff it gives also. For example, you can see the only other thing that did significantly more damage than the artifact itself, was the daily that was being spammed, "Radiant Charge".

    Last I checked it said 60 AP per second for 15 seconds, which is 900 AP or 90%, that's 9x better than a legendary snail mount, and that's just from the AP gain. (edit: even if the tooltip does say 60 ap per second, you can see in act it gives 75 ap per tick).

    Also, although the player is really good, he or she runs a paladin tank, and did more damage than any of the dps toons in the group. Which I think is odd, cuz it's not like it was a pug group.

    The damage: 11% + 2% + 1% from different 'stories' or whatever for a total of 14% of overall damage.


    AP Gain: 21% of all ap gain was from this artifact. Also, we can see that most of the AP a paladin generates, is from blocking. Maybe this is why they can spam their dailies in pvp so fast, they are always blocking. Not sure if their tab mechanic counts as 'blocking' regarding ap generation.



    Edit: Oops, wrong screenshot
    Post edited by quickfoot#7851 on

  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    To be quite honest, given the state of pvp at the moment, this problem effects what..? Maybe 10 people in the game..? Out of the whole population..? Not to mention everything else that needs doing simply to get the general content of game back into some kind of order without people getting oneshot by some random mob in a levelling zone.

    Talk about arguing what color the drapes should be when the house is burning down.

    Do you think this artifact is the absolute reason why pvp died this mod..? No, I didn't think so. Put incentives into pvp, and don't follow the usual path of nerf this and nerf that for the sole benefit of pvp which makes the entire pve population of the game hate our guts more than they already do.

    Instead just ask for a nice bright line. Disable all active artifacts in pvp. Job done, none of the pve'ers angry, devs's lives made easier, move along.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • alfalolzalfalolz Member Posts: 161 Arc User



    AP Gain: 21% of all ap gain was from this artifact. Also, we can see that most of the AP a paladin generates, is from blocking. Maybe this is why they can spam their dailies in pvp so fast, they are always blocking. Not sure if their tab mechanic counts as 'blocking' regarding ap generation.


    Edit: Oops, wrong screenshot

    Something is definitely there with palas blocking in PVP and this artifact. Cuz they can spam dailies almost without a stop.... im not entirely sure what does it tho.
  • alfalolzalfalolz Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    is there any clarification will be coming regarding AP gain with this artifact?
  • benyrbenyr Member Posts: 203 Arc User
    > @jonkoca said:
    > To be quite honest, given the state of pvp at the moment, this problem effects what..? Maybe 10 people in the game..? Out of the whole population..? Not to mention everything else that needs doing simply to get the general content of game back into some kind of order without people getting oneshot by some random mob in a levelling zone.
    >
    > Talk about arguing what color the drapes should be when the house is burning down.
    >
    > Do you think this artifact is the absolute reason why pvp died this mod..? No, I didn't think so. Put incentives into pvp, and don't follow the usual path of nerf this and nerf that for the sole benefit of pvp which makes the entire pve population of the game hate our guts more than they already do.
    >
    > Instead just ask for a nice bright line. Disable all active artifacts in pvp. Job done, none of the pve'ers angry, devs's lives made easier, move along.

    Thank you for your reasoned reply, i dont pvp but i do play one of each class at endgame in pve, and the pally is comfortably in the worst place (not that many classes are in a good place) at the moment in pve content.

    My heart sinks when i read posts like this, as the devs actions are rarely well reasoned and (probably due to mimickings love of pvp) they have a history of just nerfing classes to try and balance pvp with no thought to the impact on pve.

    The pally blocking in order to gain divinity, which in turn will allow it to use non cooldown powers constantly which gain action points is litererarally all it has in pve, its barely viable as it is. Without that the class may as well be removed from the game entirely.

    I get how this could skew a pvp match, but dont call for a nerf to spefic powers on an already terrible class. Join the pve community in pointing out they totally messed up the class design from the ground up by being lazy and basically building a 2nd rate fighter and shoehorning an ill thought out divinity mechanism onto it just so they could call it a paladin.

    As an aside, great to see that one if the main reasons given for all of the mod 16 changes was class balance, and theyve apparently once again managed to comeup with something that is overpowered in one arena and next to useless in another. Maybe Pally is the new TR.....
  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User

    I was looking at some ACT logs for some ME's I ran the other day, for one player, that envenomed journal artifact accounted for 21% of the total AP gain and 14% of all their damage. Not to even mention the effect that so much ap gain has on dps, and then there is the damage buff it gives also. For example, you can see the only other thing that did significantly more damage than the artifact itself, was the daily that was being spammed, "Radiant Charge".

    Last I checked it said 60 AP per second for 15 seconds, which is 900 AP or 90%, that's 9x better than a legendary snail mount, and that's just from the AP gain. (edit: even if the tooltip does say 60 ap per second, you can see in act it gives 75 ap per tick).

    Also, although the player is really good, he or she runs a paladin tank, and did more damage than any of the dps toons in the group. Which I think is odd, cuz it's not like it was a pug group.

    The damage: 11% + 2% + 1% from different 'stories' or whatever for a total of 14% of overall damage.


    AP Gain: 21% of all ap gain was from this artifact. Also, we can see that most of the AP a paladin generates, is from blocking. Maybe this is why they can spam their dailies in pvp so fast, they are always blocking. Not sure if their tab mechanic counts as 'blocking' regarding ap generation.



    Edit: Oops, wrong screenshot

    hey, thats me on the charts so im going to chim in on this one.
    Currently one of the feats ( burning light one ) buggs the shield, and makes it so we are ALWAYS blocking, even when we are not. It means we constantly get AP from in, + ap for blocking is ridiculous big to begin with.
    It is also my PvE spec, and i didnt really try to minmax this mod at all. i think if you tried really hard you could use daily every 3-4s as paladin right now.

    It really needs to go, both the bug and ap gain, but the problem is that after its gone justicar is gonna be trash, not balance wise but fun wise. or mb both, im just waiting for the hammer right now tbh.

    PS its worth mentioning that teneb is 10% of my dmg, i have 1 rank 14 and i dont stack hp on my pally, interesting.
    it might be good to have couple of them for everyone now? time will tell, if this game doesnt crumble by then.
  • alfalolzalfalolz Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    I would like to apologize for not cutting the video short. But please those who are interested take a look at the video.
    Start from 20:00 min on. ... in 5 min fight 1v1 i had total of 3 dailies the Paladin Bugging feat made 15 dailies.



    Can you imagine 3 vs 15 dailies ??? thats 5 times more!

    Please this requires fixing.
  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    alfalolz said:

    I would like to apologize for not cutting the video short. But please those who are interested take a look at the video.
    Start from 20:00 min on. ... in 5 min fight 1v1 i had total of 3 dailies the Paladin Bugging feat made 15 dailies.



    Can you imagine 3 vs 15 dailies ??? thats 5 times more!

    Please this requires fixing.

    i watched it and you make it sound worse then it actually is.
    1 you gold onto your cooldowns, so you dont use them as often so you dont generate AP in the fastest way.
    2 you hold onto dailies, during that time you dont generate AP, since you are full.
    3 you hit paladin repeatedly, meaning he gets divinity at the fastest possible speed meaning he uses div encounter at the best possible rate meaning best possible ap gain from them.
    4 you hit his shield often, giving him AP often.
    5 he seems to not use his cooldowns with anything in mind, just throws them as fast as he can, meaning he has alot of dailies to throw, but nothing to show of them.

    Also Pally on the video preety much hugs the shield, so he would be getting AP gain anyway, bug or not.

    what needs to happen is 1 bug fixed, 2 ap gain for shield nerfed ALOT. 3 AP gain from powers increased.
    thats for AP problems from pally.
    fun fact, bane gives 0,2% AP. yes thats how bad some powers are xd
  • alfalolzalfalolz Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    leonidrex said:

    alfalolz said:

    I would like to apologize for not cutting the video short. But please those who are interested take a look at the video.
    Start from 20:00 min on. ... in 5 min fight 1v1 i had total of 3 dailies the Paladin Bugging feat made 15 dailies.



    Can you imagine 3 vs 15 dailies ??? thats 5 times more!

    Please this requires fixing.

    i watched it and you make it sound worse then it actually is.
    1 you gold onto your cooldowns, so you dont use them as often so you dont generate AP in the fastest way.
    2 you hold onto dailies, during that time you dont generate AP, since you are full.
    3 you hit paladin repeatedly, meaning he gets divinity at the fastest possible speed meaning he uses div encounter at the best possible rate meaning best possible ap gain from them.
    4 you hit his shield often, giving him AP often.
    5 he seems to not use his cooldowns with anything in mind, just throws them as fast as he can, meaning he has alot of dailies to throw, but nothing to show of them.

    Also Pally on the video preety much hugs the shield, so he would be getting AP gain anyway, bug or not.

    what needs to happen is 1 bug fixed, 2 ap gain for shield nerfed ALOT. 3 AP gain from powers increased.
    thats for AP problems from pally.
    fun fact, bane gives 0,2% AP. yes thats how bad some powers are xd
    1. You are actually wrong, when i have full divinity i shoot out burst damage of at least 6 cd's. in a long run we use around the same amount of cd's but i dont generate as much ap as he does. ( and i shouldnt). Other classes have AP gain somewhere close to w/e i have.
    2. Maybe i hold down the use of my dailies a bit sometimes, but he does that too.
    3. Mate, ive done almost 500 kills since mod16 launch and i can tell that other classes are being hit by me the same way however they do not get to shoot 15 dailies at me while i only have 3. There could be a difference of 1 daily between us but NOT x5 times.
    4. GFs do not generate as much AP as palas while being hit on their shield too.
    5. Well, you are wrong here as well, he can probably kill almost any class non stop, its just me that he cant 2 shot in 20 seconds.

  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    alfalolz said:

    leonidrex said:

    alfalolz said:

    I would like to apologize for not cutting the video short. But please those who are interested take a look at the video.
    Start from 20:00 min on. ... in 5 min fight 1v1 i had total of 3 dailies the Paladin Bugging feat made 15 dailies.



    Can you imagine 3 vs 15 dailies ??? thats 5 times more!

    Please this requires fixing.

    i watched it and you make it sound worse then it actually is.
    1 you gold onto your cooldowns, so you dont use them as often so you dont generate AP in the fastest way.
    2 you hold onto dailies, during that time you dont generate AP, since you are full.
    3 you hit paladin repeatedly, meaning he gets divinity at the fastest possible speed meaning he uses div encounter at the best possible rate meaning best possible ap gain from them.
    4 you hit his shield often, giving him AP often.
    5 he seems to not use his cooldowns with anything in mind, just throws them as fast as he can, meaning he has alot of dailies to throw, but nothing to show of them.

    Also Pally on the video preety much hugs the shield, so he would be getting AP gain anyway, bug or not.

    what needs to happen is 1 bug fixed, 2 ap gain for shield nerfed ALOT. 3 AP gain from powers increased.
    thats for AP problems from pally.
    fun fact, bane gives 0,2% AP. yes thats how bad some powers are xd
    1. You are actually wrong, when i have full divinity i shoot out burst damage of at least 6 cd's. in a long run we use around the same amount of cd's but i dont generate as much ap as he does. ( and i shouldnt). Other classes have AP gain somewhere close to w/e i have.
    2. Maybe i hold down the use of my dailies a bit sometimes, but he does that too.
    3. Mate, ive done almost 500 kills since mod16 launch and i can tell that other classes are being hit by me the same way however they do not get to shoot 15 dailies at me while i only have 3. There could be a difference of 1 daily between us but NOT x5 times.
    4. GFs do not generate as much AP as palas while being hit on their shield too.
    5. Well, you are wrong here as well, he can probably kill almost any class non stop, its just me that he cant 2 shot in 20 seconds.

    you realize that the bug in question makes you ALWAYS shield ? he doesnt have to hold it, he could just whack you with his atwills at all times, while blocking all your CC anyways. that alone means he doesnt know/doesnt want to use the bug.
    i watched around 2min and not once have i seen him go for 1shot combo.

    If he REALLY tried he could go like this

    have 100% daily, open up with artifact, 2,5s Stun. -> smite -> daily -> BL ( 3s stun ) -> smite -> atwill -> lion ( knockback ) -> daily.
    he can fish for it every 60s, you fail to dodge the arti, you die.

    for all of the points i worked under assumtions that he was spaming everything off cooldown, since he wasnt going for any combo, i dont mean that you SHOULD do that. it just means that doing that you get more daily powers off.
  • alfalolzalfalolz Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    He isnt using diary that gives him 100% AP with the 3 sec stun. So yea.
  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    It's the feat "Blinding Vengeance" or something like that. When they use Blinding Light, they just tap it, and they start blocking constantly after that. Since blocking produces AP, they are also constantly building AP, even if not actually holding shift. This has led to other misreported bugs that Paladin's have their Stamina drained while not blocking, when in fact they where blocking, just not holding shift (their shield up), because this feat is bugged and keeps them in blocking status after casting Blinding Light even while not block, but they are block, technically. Does that make sense? The feat basically keeps them in a blocking state after BL and they are still able to attack and do other things, and since they are blocking, they lose stamina, and it appears that their class is bugged, but it's the feat actually.

    I don't know how to really explain it, but if you played a paladin and tested it, it would suddenly make sense.

  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User

    It's the feat "Blinding Vengeance" or something like that. When they use Blinding Light, they just tap it, and they start blocking constantly after that. Since blocking produces AP, they are also constantly building AP, even if not actually holding shift. This has led to other misreported bugs that Paladin's have their Stamina drained while not blocking, when in fact they where blocking, just not holding shift (their shield up), because this feat is bugged and keeps them in blocking status after casting Blinding Light even while not block, but they are block, technically. Does that make sense? The feat basically keeps them in a blocking state after BL and they are still able to attack and do other things, and since they are blocking, they lose stamina, and it appears that their class is bugged, but it's the feat actually.

    I don't know how to really explain it, but if you played a paladin and tested it, it would suddenly make sense.

    i do play paladin, and tank mostly....but i took the other feat....i have 0 interest in exploiting this game, so knowing this now I wouldn't even try that feat, it's broken
    try tanking without shield regenerating :D
  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    leonidrex said:

    It's the feat "Blinding Vengeance" or something like that. When they use Blinding Light, they just tap it, and they start blocking constantly after that. Since blocking produces AP, they are also constantly building AP, even if not actually holding shift. This has led to other misreported bugs that Paladin's have their Stamina drained while not blocking, when in fact they where blocking, just not holding shift (their shield up), because this feat is bugged and keeps them in blocking status after casting Blinding Light even while not block, but they are block, technically. Does that make sense? The feat basically keeps them in a blocking state after BL and they are still able to attack and do other things, and since they are blocking, they lose stamina, and it appears that their class is bugged, but it's the feat actually.

    I don't know how to really explain it, but if you played a paladin and tested it, it would suddenly make sense.

    i do play paladin, and tank mostly....but i took the other feat....i have 0 interest in exploiting this game, so knowing this now I wouldn't even try that feat, it's broken
    try tanking without shield regenerating :D
    Yes I tried tanking with that feat and instantly regretted it, thankfully I still have some tokens from last winterfest. As it currently function, it's great for solo play, but if you need your stamina to tank with, it's really bad.

  • nic1985nic1985 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 349 Arc User
    Next week patch:

    "UNDERMOUNTAIN OWLBEAR PATCH NOTES: NW.110.20190519A.2" via preview forum

    "Envenomed Storyteller's Journal: The AP Gain of this item has been reduced across all ranks."

    I do hope they fix the OP AP gain situation.

  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    alfalolz said:

    adinosii said:

    You are talking about the Final Chapter of the Envenomed Storyteller's Journal? Yea, the AP gain is extreme - both for PvE and PvP. I guess it will be nerfed into uselessness at some point.

    Ohh yea, that is the one, i dont really mind it being that way in PVE but PVP it brings a lot of dis balance.

    Pls Devs consider adjusting the changes.
    If the devs fix PVP it will impact PVE. This game has yet to truly separate PVP and PVE from each other.
  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    it brought a lot of disbalance in both pvp and pve. Compare the way it was with a legendary flail snail, or other ap gain artifacts, it was better than anything else in the game.

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