(PC) Stat Caps and what should be optimal values for scaling.

baronstragen · May 2019

When I listened to the livestream, the Lead Developer Thomas Foss aka @mimicking#6533 stated he didn't understand scaling with reference to stat caps. I'm going to do my best to explain:

I borrowed this snippet of information from Rainer. Sorry for not asking first.

These are the optimal values (caps) for players at level 80 and level 70. So at level 70, Our stat caps are reduced by 3000 across the board. Let's just take one stat for an example. If we have 60K in armor penetration it becomes 57K. This is the maximum value at level 70 to be effective against monsters at level 70. That's a 3K difference. The current scaling we have goes way beyond that. For example:

As you can see I have 67K armor penetration. I am at 100% effectiveness against monsters at my level. I'm actually over the optimal amount, but I've been setting myself up for the LOMM dungeon.

Now, if I go to a level 70 zone, my armor penetration is only 44K. I am no longer at 100% effectiveness as the optimal value is 57000. I SHOULD BE AT 57K. I have lost 23% of my armor penetration's effectivness versus what I WOULD BE AT LEVEL 70. I am now only 77% effective in my armor penetration. This is why I'm frustrated. If I have my optimal stats at 80, I SHOULD HAVE optimal stats at 70.

Thanks for your time.

baronstragen · May 2019

And it gets better. The above post is with an Augment. If I summon a non-augment companion I get this:

I lose another 10K in armor penetration stats, reducing my armor penetration effectiveness from 100% to 60%. Another 17% reduction. FYI. I guess in scaled areas, running augments will reign supreme. (NOTE: The augment was Epic, companion is Legendary)

dupeks · May 2019

So you mean it's in a pretty good place, right?

thefiresidecat · May 2019

dupeks said:
So you mean it's in a pretty good place, right?

dang straight.

rjc9000 · May 2019

dupeks said:
So you mean it's in a pretty good place, right?

I don't understand that question.

How about we give players +2000 more stat points in all scaled content so we can finally have scaling "in a good place"?

arkai · May 2019

Yes i think we deserve to hit hardcap iimean if im capped at 80 i need to be capped ad any level below so i mean low content too.... i hope this time they got the point..we care about the stats caps a lot lol

asterotg · May 2019

Maybe, I dont understand the problem, but why cant the just tone down weapon dmg etc by percentages. LVL 80 weapon has 1000 dmg. Lvl 70 weapon has 800 dmg, so you will reduce the base dmg of an lvl 80 player by 20%.

You need 60k AP at lvl 80 and 57 at 70, so you will get 95%.

adders79 · May 2019

Don't worry we have increased you from around 12k-14/15k in all areas. Oh cool let me check. Oh bondings increased by a whopping 2% and looks like the cap on enchants may have been raised by one rank. I am still in the same boat as you. I am only 18k and still building my toon. I have hit some caps but am short on others, but when I go into scaled content I am way below on everything.

To test their "You should have a better time in dungeons" I did a couple of Int queues. Firstly Prophecy of madness. My group was 14k-20k so way above the recommended item level. We got bronze and died multiple times as had no healer and ads run at light speed. Dungeon 2 was MPF. Pretty much the same result as Prophecy. Finished. Died Lots. No healer. I found this dungeon easier as they seem to have toned down the number of enemies that spawn at the beginning. In both these dungeons I was top DPS by a long way which shows me there are lots of new players trying to get into this game. A group in or around the recommended item level have zero chance in any of the dungeons at the moment.

Open world and campaign stuff seems in a better place and in a group of 2 or more is pretty comfortable. Any group content which is the core of any MMORPG is just awful to play

arkai · May 2019

I just say all this is crazy.they just need to put capped 80 toon in quee and dont touch armor pen and accuracy stop 4 start fix if ive 66k or 58 in armor pen nothing change in a low level quee. This is starting point for fix scale but is too hard to understand seem

rafaelda · May 2019

All i want to know is why cap 100k stats if it will give 50% change in any level anyway ?

Put caps on power and HP only, the rest is already capped by the percentual hard cap... is much easyer to control this way...
or even better move the dungeons to LV 80 and remove scalling becuse is not working as intent...

Is such a shame, we got 4 nice leveling instances the Expeditions are really fun and rewarding and the failed scalling bugged almost all the rest taking away what would be one of the best mods released...

baronstragen · May 2019

rafaelda said:
All i want to know is why cap 100k stats if it will give 50% change in any level anyway ?

Put caps on power and HP only, the rest is already capped by the percentual hard cap... is much easyer to control this way...
or even better move the dungeons to LV 80 and remove scalling becuse is not working as intent...

Is such a shame, we got 4 nice leveling instances the Expeditions are really fun and rewarding and the failed scalling bugged almost all the rest taking away what would be one of the best mods released...

Agreed. And just scale the item level of the weapon set. No need to scale anything else.

kythelion · May 2019

While I hate the capping system because of how utterly stupid it is, Foss actually answered why on accident in the stream during one of his explanations about how we were being doubly scaled on accident. They chose capping instead of scaling because they don't want people to be at stat caps in old content. This way they can control what stats we have instead of us. If they did scaling, we would still get to choose which of our stats are capped or not.

mebengalsfan · May 2019

dupeks said:
So you mean it's in a pretty good place, right?

Working as intended. It is what we asked the devs to do isn't it?

This goes back to my recommendation of using stat clamping instead scaling. I recommend clamping as it ensures players do not exceed a set stat value in various zones but players won't get gimp like they do with scaling. Now scaling would work just as good as clamping but over time scaling will require more management of calculation in each zone whereas clamping is simply a set and forget type of design if implemented correctly.

The other thing to consider is the processing power required to scale each player in each zone over and over and over. Clamping is less stressful on a server vs. a calculated value that changes so much by zones.

I'm honestly loss for words on why scaling was picked over stat clamping.

(PC) Stat Caps and what should be optimal values for scaling.

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