Will we ever be able to play PvP with a friend/friends ever again?

icexnine · November 2018

@scarabman
The regular domination q has been essentially dead for ages now, and private queues are too difficult to set up between the lack of available players and the incessant whining from those available. The solo domination q has become filled with low iL players as well as generally worthless teammates.

So, will we ever be able to queue up with a friend or two for a pvp match, whether it be a queue system change or a new pvp gametype, and actually have the queue go off? I wouldn't mind losing every game because i rolled the dice and got some unbelievably terrible teammates if i could queue with a friend and have at least one person who i could work together with.

kalina311 · November 2018

you could always try "gaming" the solo Q lol ... then you will have someone to work together with ..

leonidrex · November 2018

as long as there is no balance, and bugs dont get fixed there will be no players. no players = no 5v5. no players = no flex or whatever queue people would be able to play with a buddy.

tom · November 2018

tbh the fact that i cant really duo que for pvp is a major drawback for me

icexnine · November 2018

kalina311 said:
you could always try "gaming" the solo Q lol ... then you will have someone to work together with ..

I've tried when it was first released, but it wasn't consistent and just seemed like a waste of time. Maybe we were doing it wrong.

tom#6998 said:
tbh the fact that i cant really duo que for pvp is a major drawback for me

I imagine it is for most people, unless you have no friends who are interested in pvp. Im not even sure what they could do short of removing solo q and limiting q size to 2 or 3 in the regular domination q.

scarabman · November 2018

Some may remember when we ran a duo queue event a while back. This was around the same time that we started experimenting with the solo queue. The solo queue had much higher participation. Running a duo queue event is certainly something we could do again. I don't foresee it coming back as a permanent feature, however, without some other changes to accompany it as a queue option.

If we were to pair the duo queue event with something else like Gauntlgrym, which doesn't pop as frequently, that might encourage some additional interest in the queue and be a reason for that to exist as a permanent feature (or at least an event that we could run regularly).

gee · November 2018

kalina311 said:
you could always try "gaming" the solo Q lol ... then you will have someone to work together with ..

THIS IS WHAT WE CALL QUE SYNCING WHICH THE DEVS NEED TO BAN YOU GUYS FOR BECAUSE IT MESSES UP THE QUES.. THE QUE WILL POP AND THEN DECLINE AS YOU "GAMERS" TRY AND FIX THE QUE SO YOU AND YOUR BUDDIES CAN TEAM UP ON SOLO PVPERS... GET YOUR FRIENDS AND PRIVATE MATCH BUT AT LEAST STOP GLITCHING THE QUES AS YOU RUIN GOOD MATCHES BY HAVING BUDDIES IN THERE WITH YOU.. HENCE THE REASON FOR SOLO QUE.. GUYS ALWAYS TRYIN TO BREAK A GAME DEVS BAN THESE TYPES THEY RUIN IT WITH ILLEGAL STUNTS TRYING TO GAIN ADVANTAGE OVER THE FAIR PLAYERS

kalina311 · November 2018

@gee

who exactly is "you guys" bro ??? and if you know me/ forum post behaviour / or have read any of my
pvp posts you would know i meant the comment sarcastically/ as a joke (which pvp is at the moment ) ..and was baiting someone to comment : D

I am on Pc btw ... there is no more pvp matches on Pc its dead

should the devs not allow declining the Q period ?

however ( when you game the solo Q you could just as easily end up on the other team side and still sabotage/ throw a match by doing nothing /sitting in camp / not be targeted by your guild / friends etc and players will still complain no fair .... its a population matching problem pure and simple with no incentives and no rewards

so im summary a match can be thrown regardless if your "buddies" are on your side or not
and regardless if the Q was "gamed"

@scarabman has the right idea restore Gauntlgrym, to dual / solo Q 10 v 10 or 20 v 20 like before and Q will be more fair / randomized we had a blast in there in pvp vs the devs

schietindebux · November 2018

@kalina311 said : however ( when you game the solo Q you could just as easily end up on the other team side and still sabotage/ throw a match by doing nothing /sitting in camp / not be targeted by your guild / friends etc and players will still complain no fair .... its a population matching problem pure and simple with no incentives and no rewards
</blockquote>

Wich actually happens sometimes and is at least same annoying if not worse.
Same as someone could simply decide start to run let´s say ..Battle Trample + KV etc. and destroy the experience in a hole on both sides.

@icexnine
Why premade PVP same as Duo queue died and Solo queue is the only frequented PVP modus?
It was pretty obvious what the average PVP player enjoyed and what not, that´s why.
You could build 5 vs 5, you could do privat matches, Specify rules for guaranteed fairplay, if that´s what you are looking for.... the rewards are from no interest anyway.
The core problems in PVP are not solved yet, so PVP stays unstable, abusive and somehow in a "Beta mode".
I wait for a general overhaul , like an equalized modus with few gear (per mod), separat PVP modus , devided from PVE, and a ban of SH-Boons, broken gear, drains and many more.
Until then I won´t step that often into PVP, same as 99,9% of playerbase obviously -> no rewards + broken classes/powers etc.

rafaelda · November 2018

we need at least a IL limit, like queues for 10-12K, 13-15k and 16k+

if the GS is not close the match gets even more unbalanced, our alliance was running a "event" we called Naked PVP
We used to set a Gauntlgrym fight with 2 team using only a lev 16 weapon set, no armor rings or artifacts, and even there we found unbalance issue with OP Tanks...

First time was a dominations fight on my guild, then the guild leadres tuned into a alliance run on Gauntlgrym... was fun but is hard to get 2 full parties to run it, takes too much time...

gripnir78 · November 2018

leonidrex said:
as long as there is no balance, and bugs dont get fixed there will be no players. no players = no 5v5. no players = no flex or whatever queue people would be able to play with a buddy.

And since there is no people playing pvp there is no need to fix it.... circle closed.

@icexnine I belive that first and only step devs should do is to finally try to divide PVP side of the game from PVE side. Untill then any attempts for any improvement are waisted effort. Plain and simple.

Keep in mind that this game PVP is still in the same place it was since a begining of the game. And since first concept of pvp a lot changed. Level cap, new skills tons of skills rework, huge increase in statistics, new items with special mechanics, more campaigns with more statistics and special mechanics... and so on.

Along with that, a gap between new and old players was growing wider with every new mod. To the point when none of the new players had even a chance to fight "older" players. How that coudnt be a game breaking? So numbers of pvp players was dwindling to current point, when waiting for a que takes ages.

daniloslv · November 2018

Be nice and friendly with everyone, and every queue you join will have friends

Solo domi has like 30 ppl who play. Not hard to get to know most of them.

kalina311 · November 2018

rafaelda said:
we need at least a IL limit, like queues for 10-12K, 13-15k and 16k+

if the GS is not close the match gets even more unbalanced, our alliance was running a "event" we called Naked PVP
We used to set a Gauntlgrym fight with 2 team using only a lev 16 weapon set, no armor rings or artifacts, and even there we found unbalance issue with OP Tanks...

First time was a dominations fight on my guild, then the guild leadres tuned into a alliance run on Gauntlgrym... was fun but is hard to get 2 full parties to run it, takes too much time...

omg how many times do i have to repeat this in the forums

you cant have fair bracketed qs when different classes perform better or worse at the same item level
some classes are very gear dependant some are not thats not fair ...

you cant have bracketed Qs unless gear is locked

you cant lock gear cause then you cant swap enchantment and rings / gear and wards to suit who you are fighting ( like people using toxic drains)it is a vicious circle until classes re balanced properly and more powers are dual pvp / pve use and perform differently the devs have slowly started to come around on this ..

darklyblue · November 2018

The new PVE dungeon system has a mode that reduces the IL of an entire party to the minimum level required for running that dungeon. Until something like this is introduced for PvP, it's always going to be a simple matter of gear and not skill. I once saw a level 25-30 player with ensorcelled gear, Xvim rings and rank 12 enchants (the highest available at the time, which shows how long ago it was). From that moment, I knew that PvP, here, would be a complete waste of time.

Not only that, but to have to suffer the verbal abuse of such players - in a game - makes PvP here a highly unattractive proposition. It is, and has been for as long as I can remember, one of the most toxic PvP environments in any MMORG I have played - and I have played in a few. I grew up in an inner city school where a nasty tongue and quick fists were necessary to survive. To be transported back to that, now, in my 50s, in a game, of all things - an online game which is designed to bring people together, not alienate us further - is not my idea of fun. If I really wanted that degree of domination, I'd pay for an hour of BDSM at Helga's House of Horrors every Friday night, thanks all the same.

You can still have rewards. What you'll find is that the better PvPers will gain those rewards at an earlier level. Therefore, their IL will advance more quickly. This will provide them with a challenge as they will come up against higher level players, with their respectively higher powers. You will end up with a more varied and more rewarding system, I think.

The coding is obviously available. It's a matter of will, I guess. But, as I am frequently reminded, one also has to take account of how much more readily the devs of MMORGs listen to those with the deepest pockets, as opposed to those who play for the game's sake.

My name is Nick. My talent is striving after the wind. And I want world peace.

icexnine · November 2018

scarabman said:
Some may remember when we ran a duo queue event a while back. This was around the same time that we started experimenting with the solo queue. The solo queue had much higher participation. Running a duo queue event is certainly something we could do again. I don't foresee it coming back as a permanent feature, however, without some other changes to accompany it as a queue option.

If we were to pair the duo queue event with something else like Gauntlgrym, which doesn't pop as frequently, that might encourage some additional interest in the queue and be a reason for that to exist as a permanent feature (or at least an event that we could run regularly).

I don't remember there being a duo queue event on console, so that may have been pc only. I wonder if console players would have been more inclined to duo queue than pc players. But I do agree it would have to be an event to get 20 ppl to queue up for gauntlgrym pvp. The pvp population at any given time is already quite low, and splitting up pvp queues just makes queue times for each queue worse unless one queue is abandoned.

I think mmos are enjoyable largely because you can work together with your friends, and at this point that's not really an option aside from setting up private queues, which I suspect is disappointing for many people.

icexnine · November 2018

Also, from my perspective class balance isn't as much of an issue as it once was, given recent changes to tr's. The gear gap is still a problem, but only if you have no interest in progressing your gear through pve. And I don't even understand how/why people with this mindset continue to take a beating in pvp. The gear required to be competitive in pvp is really not difficult to get, and we all had to go through the same steps to get it (aside from high level enchants/mounts that can be bought, but I'd argue those aren't that important in most cases and only offer a slight advantage than can be overcome with skill).

But that's not even the point of this thread. I'll accept the chance that I get a few undergeared players on my team, so long as I have one friend that I can work with and the other team isn't completely stacked. I used to duo/trio q in the regular domination q and get matched vs premades all the time, and most times we would be able to make it a close match if not outright win, and that was more exciting to me than the solo queue has ever been.

schietindebux · November 2018

The gap between a newcomer in a low level guild and a 4years+ PVP veteran is indeed very huge.
Who ever should invest +600 Euro/dollar or farm 3 years+ to get a foot into a small sidebranch of a game to be on an acceptable level in PVP ?
You need U-Feytouched+Negation/Shadow etc., 16x enchantments rank 13-14, 15x insignia (purple) and SH rank 20.
Maybe 30 mio AD I´d say to be competetive on a near BIS level
30 mio AD = about 600 Euro
Even doing so he is not competetive outside a rank 20 guild.
If you want that Lion and have some armorenchants on top you can spend arround 900 Dollar/Euro+, if pay2win is your choice.

leonidrex · November 2018

and even then you are cucked unless you play the right class or abuse the right bugs

Will we ever be able to play PvP with a friend/friends ever again?

Answers