How Does Stronghold labor Work in Mod 15?

kiraskytower · September 2018

I have been playing with the professions system on preview and have loved the changes to it. But it's left me with one question (which I have broken out here as it's more of a Stronghold Concern than a Professions Concern).

Under the Mod 15 Professions System, how do Strongholds get Labor for their coffers?

In Mod 14 there were basically 3 Sources of Labor, some of which are now lost to us with the new professions system:

1) Purple/Blue/Green/White crafters

This was the primary source of labor for the coffer as these were relatively easy to pick up from the auction house or in lockboxes or by making them with professions. A single Purple crafter was worth 12,500 Labor to the coffer, while Blues were worth 2500 and Greens 600. White ones depended on their "tier". This source is now gone to us and we do not seem to be able to use the crafters we recruit as coffer donations.

2) Crafting "Crates" from Leadership

In Mod 14 there is a leadership task to make 4 "crates" of Labor, worth 25 each (so 100 for the task). This is a pretty inefficient way to fill the coffer's Labor but it is free if you have Leadership at 18+. Unfortunately, while free, this is also a very inefficient way to get labor for the coffer as it takes thousands of points of labor to do much of anything. This also seems to be gone in Mod 15 (I am hoping it comes back).

3) Quest/Dragonflight Vouchers

Every other day or so there are quests from the builder that reward Minor Labor Vouchers worth 65 labor. Dragonflights can (randomly) drop Labor vouchers. This is our most inefficient and random method yet of getting Labor. At the moment, this is our remaining source of labor for the coffer.

So in Mod 15 (assuming we are just doing the builders quests) we will be receiving 3*65= 195 leadership per week per character. This means a guild with 100 characters grinding these quests will still not generate enough Labor to maintain a recruiter or to build any of the Temp structures weekly that require leadership. We need something to replace the loss of profession assets. Either drop the Labor Requirements drastically, Remove Leadership as a required item or make Leadership a "gatherable" item (and hopefully a far more efficient one than it is under leadership now).

@asterdahl

rickcase276 · September 2018

We are making some adjustments to how labor works in general. You will be able to donate more professions related items than you can in the current system, but will not be donating the new artisans. Existing artisans will convert into bills of labor that can be converted over to new professions assets or donated to strongholds as they currently may be.

This is the response Asterdahl gave in the main thread on the overhaul.

kiraskytower · September 2018

rickcase276 said:
We are making some adjustments to how labor works in general. You will be able to donate more professions related items than you can in the current system, but will not be donating the new artisans. Existing artisans will convert into bills of labor that can be converted over to new professions assets or donated to strongholds as they currently may be.

This is the response Asterdahl gave in the main thread on the overhaul.

Thanks, I missed that over there. I had seen that you could donate the bills of labor, but this seemed like something that would not be sustainable (ie. everyone would either donate them or trade them in and then there would be no new ones for the coffer a few weeks after the launch of the new module).

ilithyn · September 2018

I think we need to bring this up in the official feedback thread, because it is going to become impossible to donate labor to the guild coffers with mod 15.

Yes I know @asterdahl said crafting crates would be coming back, but I'm assuming they're bringing them back under whatever profession they're currently under and since they're removing Leadership entirely then both crating crate of labor and AD will be gone. Which means to all effects that donating labor is no longer possible. So any guild now mazed out by mod 15 will be effectively screwed.
There might be a possibility from profession crates which will give vouchers which can either be exchanged for stuff in the new system or donated to coffers, but that will be prohibitively expensive and hence not a viable method. I'm wondering if this is an unintentional side consequence or wai.

grogthemagnif · October 2018

ilithyn said:
I think we need to bring this up in the official feedback thread, because it is going to become impossible to donate labor to the guild coffers with mod 15.

Yes I know @asterdahl said crafting crates would be coming back, but I'm assuming they're bringing them back under whatever profession they're currently under and since they're removing Leadership entirely then both crating crate of labor and AD will be gone. Which means to all effects that donating labor is no longer possible. So any guild now mazed out by mod 15 will be effectively screwed.
There might be a possibility from profession crates which will give vouchers which can either be exchanged for stuff in the new system or donated to coffers, but that will be prohibitively expensive and hence not a viable method. I'm wondering if this is an unintentional side consequence or wai.

I can see where the Adventurers, for a payment of Time (say 4 hours before speed modification) do SH Labor or process 3000 RAD into 3 1000 AD chests. Limited to 1 Adventurer for each task as happens now.

nunya · October 2018

grogthemagnif said:
I can see where the Adventurers, for a payment of Time (say 4 hours before speed modification) do SH Labor or process 3000 RAD into 3 1000 AD chests. Limited to 1 Adventurer for each task as happens now.

If creating crates of astral diamonds is going to cost actual astral diamonds, then why wouldn't I just donate the astral diamonds directly to the coffer? Why would I bother to pay a commission to some moron to turn rough astral diamonds into crates of astral diamonds? Seriously. It's not like the guild NEEDS 3k astral diamonds RIGHT NOW (unless you fail to do any planning whatever). Even if I had zero astral diamonds, I'd just wait until the next day, refine 100k, then donate 3k. Why would I ever (repeat EVER) spend gold to facilitate this? The idea is just completely ridiculous.

Note: I am already sitting on around 10m rough astral diamonds across all my characters.

cherryman1 · October 2018

nunya#5309 said:

grogthemagnif said:
I can see where the Adventurers, for a payment of Time (say 4 hours before speed modification) do SH Labor or process 3000 RAD into 3 1000 AD chests. Limited to 1 Adventurer for each task as happens now.
If creating crates of astral diamonds is going to cost actual astral diamonds, then why wouldn't I just donate the astral diamonds directly to the coffer? Why would I bother to pay a commission to some moron to turn rough astral diamonds into crates of astral diamonds? Seriously. It's not like the guild NEEDS 3k astral diamonds RIGHT NOW (unless you fail to do any planning whatever). Even if I had zero astral diamonds, I'd just wait until the next day, refine 100k, then donate 3k. Why would I ever (repeat EVER) spend gold to facilitate this? The idea is just completely ridiculous.

Note: I am already sitting on around 10m rough astral diamonds across all my characters.

I believe that there is a conversion of AD to AD crate that are used. It is not a 1 to 1 ratio for donating unless that has changed since the last time I looked at it. I am not at a computer now to look at the actual conversion but it is like a 10/100 to 1 ratio (something like that) in terms of real AD to convert. I thought 1 leadership task with the 3 crates was the equivalent of 30,000 AD donated. Will have to check when I get home what the real conversion is.

nunya · October 2018

cherryman1 said:

I believe that there is a conversion of AD to AD crate that are used. It is not a 1 to 1 ratio for donating unless that has changed since the last time I looked at it. I am not at a computer now to look at the actual conversion but it is like a 10/100 to 1 ratio (something like that) in terms of real AD to convert. I thought 1 leadership task with the 3 crates was the equivalent of 30,000 AD donated. Will have to check when I get home what the real conversion is.

The conversion rate is 1,000 actual AD to 1 AD in the coffer. Currently, the Leadership task does not cost you any actual AD (either rough or otherwise). This is why I'm currently generating 18 per day per character on 13 characters. (Two heroes on the task makes it a three hour task and I can get it collected/restarted 6x per day.) This lets me use my actual AD for improving my character and, when I have the extra to spare, getting vouchers to help my guild level. My point in the reply you quoted is that I can't see any reason why anyone would spend gold to have an adventurer or artisan turn their rough astral diamonds into AD crates to donate to the coffer. Gold is going to be at a premium after mod 15 comes out (for most people, anyway; this may or may not include you). So why would you spend gold to use rAD to make AD crates when you can just donate the refined AD directly at a zero gold cost?

romromero · October 2018

Will there be a rework of the guild system on mod 16? Seems like a logical progression since they are changing stuff in the professions that are connected with guild activity...

cherryman1 · October 2018

nunya#5309 said:

The conversion rate is 1,000 actual AD to 1 AD in the coffer. Currently, the Leadership task does not cost you any actual AD (either rough or otherwise). This is why I'm currently generating 18 per day per character on 13 characters. (Two heroes on the task makes it a three hour task and I can get it collected/restarted 6x per day.) This lets me use my actual AD for improving my character and, when I have the extra to spare, getting vouchers to help my guild level. My point in the reply you quoted is that I can't see any reason why anyone would spend gold to have an adventurer or artisan turn their rough astral diamonds into AD crates to donate to the coffer. Gold is going to be at a premium after mod 15 comes out (for most people, anyway; this may or may not include you). So why would you spend gold to use rAD to make AD crates when you can just donate the refined AD directly at a zero gold cost?

I do the same thing with leadership AD crates (30x3 = 90 crates a day for my guild and alliance). My worry is that they are going to make us use AD to create those crates or vouchers in the future. I am more likely to want them to use gold to create AD crates than for me to put in AD into the Guild hall. In just doing some math to upgrade 1 building that uses AD crates for the stronghold is 10 million AD to do it. If I can spend gold which is not capped on daily collection I would rather spend my gold to keep my AD.

nunya · October 2018

cherryman1 said:

I do the same thing with leadership AD crates (30x3 = 90 crates a day for my guild and alliance). My worry is that they are going to make us use AD to create those crates or vouchers in the future. I am more likely to want them to use gold to create AD crates than for me to put in AD into the Guild hall. In just doing some math to upgrade 1 building that uses AD crates for the stronghold is 10 million AD to do it. If I can spend gold which is not capped on daily collection I would rather spend my gold to keep my AD.

Agreed. If there has to be a cost, it should be gold/silver/copper. There are already enough draws on my AD supply that I don't need to add this. Hopefully you've been doing what I've been doing and that is generating AD crates as fast as you can since early September. My guild's coffer only holds 11,800, but it will be full and I'll have several thousand extra sitting in my bank for later.

grogthemagnif · October 2018

nunya#5309 said:

cherryman1 said:

I do the same thing with leadership AD crates (30x3 = 90 crates a day for my guild and alliance). My worry is that they are going to make us use AD to create those crates or vouchers in the future. I am more likely to want them to use gold to create AD crates than for me to put in AD into the Guild hall. In just doing some math to upgrade 1 building that uses AD crates for the stronghold is 10 million AD to do it. If I can spend gold which is not capped on daily collection I would rather spend my gold to keep my AD.
Agreed. If there has to be a cost, it should be gold/silver/copper. There are already enough draws on my AD supply that I don't need to add this. Hopefully you've been doing what I've been doing and that is generating AD crates as fast as you can since early September. My guild's coffer only holds 11,800, but it will be full and I'll have several thousand extra sitting in my bank for later.

You do understand that for every Order/Crafting your new Professionals do they get a gold/silver/copper Commission paid by your character(s), It has been recommended to have 5000gp available for Crafting Professionals Commissions in addition to the gold/silver/copper costs for Professions Assets and Professions Resources. Selling items may help you recoup some expenses. Right now there are tokens for purchasing Assets and Resources from the Retainer and Workshop supplies (which you now may be able to pay for with damaged resources and Labor Asset Vouchers on Neverwinter Preview Shard.

nunya · October 2018

grogthemagnif said:

You do understand that for every Order/Crafting your new Professionals do they get a gold/silver/copper Commission paid by your character(s), It has been recommended to have 5000gp available for Crafting Professionals Commissions in addition to the gold/silver/copper costs for Professions Assets and Professions Resources. Selling items may help you recoup some expenses. Right now there are tokens for purchasing Assets and Resources from the Retainer and Workshop supplies (which you now may be able to pay for with damaged resources and Labor Asset Vouchers on Neverwinter Preview Shard.

Yes, I am aware of the commission. I don't think there should be a commission cost on guild resources, but I'm sure there will be. My point was simply that the cost to generate these resources shouldn't be paid with another currency.

5k gold?!? Unless you've been doing Leadership tasks for the last three or four years, you're not going to have anywhere near that amount. I have 1k gold on one character, almost 1k gold on another, almost 500 gold on a third, and the rest are 200 gold or less. That kind of commission cost is going to price everyone except the already rich out of professions. I'll probably just walk away from this game if I'm not able to generate resources for my guild. There'll be no point being in a guild at all.

How Does Stronghold labor Work in Mod 15?

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