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Swarm and Groot Information (PvE)
rjc9000
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,405 Arc User
Because I have too much free time, because @thefabricant's PC exploded, and because Edgy heard rumors from the Drider server, I checked out information on the two most wanted items from the latest lockbox: the Swarm legendary combat power and the Razorwood pet.
Happy now Edgy? Grammatically correct or not, I don't care if you get tilted, I write however I please.
Swarm:
Yes, the 5% buff and 5% debuff are working correctly.
Normally, I'd trust the Russian server because the Russian server is stupidly good, but I was curious to see if it was just a math error.
Done in Caer Konig on the latest preview patch of the writing, used HR with 1000 fixed damage weapons, no feats and no other gear. Dorrian was naked (because ugly lizard skin), had unspecced all feats, and was using a 1000 damage test weapon.
Clean ACT Version
Exact Numbers
972.99 was the reference hit done without using the swarm.
Then, I applied Swarm and attacked the swarmed target (to check the debuff), then quickly attacked an unswarmed target (to check the buff).
1021.64 was the damage with the buff applied. 1021.64/972.99= 1.050000, which indicates the buff is correct.
1072.71 was the hit with the debuff and the clean ACT picture clearly shows the 105% effectiveness. If you prefer math, if the swarm debuff and buff were both applied, then 1072.71 would be 1.1025x larger than 972.99.
972.99 * 1.05 * 1.05 = 1072.721475. There are some rounding errors, but the damage is close enough to what is observed.
The buff is personal, but the debuff is party wide
105% effectiveness doesn't lie.
(Aside note: to all the GFs out there, this active power mount applies Crushing Pin. I know this because Durian forgot to unspec it during the testing).
The debuff can stack.
What would happen is Dorrian would attack, then apply swarm, then I would follow up and attack, and apply swarm, then either one of us would hit to check if the debuff stacked.
110% effectiveness indicates that the debuffs do indeed stack (1+ (0.05 + 0.05)).
As a personal note, I found the animation to be noticeably quicker to apply than the Tenser's active power, though I do not know how to record gifs and cannot provide an exact comparison.
Groot:
Less information and testing I wanted to do. The main thing I wanted to know is if the 25% CA bonus was affected by the Drow Ambush Tactics boon.
Used a testing GF with no feats, only picked Defense -> Lifesteal -> Drow Ambush Tactics for Underdark boons, a 1000 damage testing weapon, 17 STR, 3 points in Crushing Surge, 11 CHA, and no other gear equipped.
The Razorwood pet is affected by the Drow Ambush Tactics boon.
Clean ACT version
Exact Numbers
The Enforced Threat was to apply a marking effect that grants CA. Then, I attacked once without having the Razorwood equipped. Then, I quickly equipped Groot, and then attacked once more.
Seeing as the hit with Groot yields more damage than the hit without Groot, we can deduce the pet works in some capacity. Now I want to see if the pet is affected by Drow Ambush Tactics.
Ignoring the debuff, look at the base damage of the hit, which was 3483.5. To see if it works, I just need to do some math for comparison.
According to my calculations (which were pretty close to reality), I would only get 3483.5 only if Groot's CA Bonus was multiplied by Drow Ambush Tactics.
Special thanks to @sirjimbofrancis for loaning me the items to test, @dungra34 for assisting me in the testing, and @flensburger99 for providing moral support.
Swarm:
Yes, the 5% buff and 5% debuff are working correctly.
Normally, I'd trust the Russian server because the Russian server is stupidly good, but I was curious to see if it was just a math error.
Done in Caer Konig on the latest preview patch of the writing, used HR with 1000 fixed damage weapons, no feats and no other gear. Dorrian was naked (because ugly lizard skin), had unspecced all feats, and was using a 1000 damage test weapon.
Clean ACT Version
Exact Numbers
972.99 was the reference hit done without using the swarm.
Then, I applied Swarm and attacked the swarmed target (to check the debuff), then quickly attacked an unswarmed target (to check the buff).
1021.64 was the damage with the buff applied. 1021.64/972.99= 1.050000, which indicates the buff is correct.
1072.71 was the hit with the debuff and the clean ACT picture clearly shows the 105% effectiveness. If you prefer math, if the swarm debuff and buff were both applied, then 1072.71 would be 1.1025x larger than 972.99.
972.99 * 1.05 * 1.05 = 1072.721475. There are some rounding errors, but the damage is close enough to what is observed.
The buff is personal, but the debuff is party wide
105% effectiveness doesn't lie.
(Aside note: to all the GFs out there, this active power mount applies Crushing Pin. I know this because Durian forgot to unspec it during the testing).
The debuff can stack.
What would happen is Dorrian would attack, then apply swarm, then I would follow up and attack, and apply swarm, then either one of us would hit to check if the debuff stacked.
110% effectiveness indicates that the debuffs do indeed stack (1+ (0.05 + 0.05)).
As a personal note, I found the animation to be noticeably quicker to apply than the Tenser's active power, though I do not know how to record gifs and cannot provide an exact comparison.
Groot:
Less information and testing I wanted to do. The main thing I wanted to know is if the 25% CA bonus was affected by the Drow Ambush Tactics boon.
Used a testing GF with no feats, only picked Defense -> Lifesteal -> Drow Ambush Tactics for Underdark boons, a 1000 damage testing weapon, 17 STR, 3 points in Crushing Surge, 11 CHA, and no other gear equipped.
The Razorwood pet is affected by the Drow Ambush Tactics boon.
Clean ACT version
Exact Numbers
The Enforced Threat was to apply a marking effect that grants CA. Then, I attacked once without having the Razorwood equipped. Then, I quickly equipped Groot, and then attacked once more.
Seeing as the hit with Groot yields more damage than the hit without Groot, we can deduce the pet works in some capacity. Now I want to see if the pet is affected by Drow Ambush Tactics.
Ignoring the debuff, look at the base damage of the hit, which was 3483.5. To see if it works, I just need to do some math for comparison.
According to my calculations (which were pretty close to reality), I would only get 3483.5 only if Groot's CA Bonus was multiplied by Drow Ambush Tactics.
Special thanks to @sirjimbofrancis for loaning me the items to test, @dungra34 for assisting me in the testing, and @flensburger99 for providing moral support.
Post edited by rjc9000 on
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Comments
By the way, how sould we read that 25% CA and 2,5% Critsev on Groot?
Like a "+25" on the CA part of the damage formula (x1,1 via Drow Ambush Tactics) and a "+ 2,5" on the critical severity part of the damage formula?
As in "When you have Combat Advantage and you are critting, having Groot is like having more than an Erynes of Belial, a Cambion Magus, an epic Dancing Blade and a blue Dancing blade, or five epic Blink Dogs and a blue Dancing Blade" ?
I got lazy and always considered this companion to be the functional equivalent of half a UP Vorpal, since almost everyone is running a Crit build and can get Combat Advantage in some capacity.
Now I just need to save up some AD for my CW to get these new toys.
Ereshkigal - 12k Tiefling SW
Aurora Ravensong - 11.6k Drow CW
Groot adds 25% Combat Advantage damage to the entire CA damage category in the damage formula.
Note that the Combat Advantage stat and Groot are single components of the Combat Advantage category in the damage formula.
The formula looks something like (assuming you have Drow Ambush Tactics, which you should, because the alternative is lolregen):
(1.1)*(0.15+ (% from CA pets like Groot) + (% CA from Special Stat) + (% from CHA))
If you aren't scared by the arithmetic, you can read more about the Combat Advantage formula over on Janne's website.
http://jannenw.info/pages/mechanics/ca
Thanks for the info.
Ereshkigal - 12k Tiefling SW
Aurora Ravensong - 11.6k Drow CW
Dead🔪Using Janne's Crit Severity+CA calculator, the DPS increase of just +25% CA will rival that of a Fire Archon (since that was the question first asked) for most realistic DPS increases.
Even if you use a worst case example of Combat HR using Skirmisher's, Squash Soup, Wild Storm, UP Vorpal, Half Orc racial, and an average CHA of 20, then you're looking at ~245% combined CA/Crit Severity bonus before Groot. Adding Groot's 25% CA bonus alone which would put Groot at a compareable level to the Fire Archon's bonus.
75 (base) + 55 (UP Vorpal) + 50 (Skirmisher's) + 5 (Half Orc) + 7.5 (Flask of Potency) + 10 (Wild Storm) + 5% (Squash Soup) + [1.1 (Drow Ambush Tactics)* (15 (base CA bonus) + 9 (most players' CA special stat) + 10 (20 CHA bonus))]= 244.9% .
If you factor in the Archon bonus, then the Fire Archon would begin to pull ahead in that extreme example. I do not know how the Archon bonuses are added to the overall damage formula, so I cannot talk about at what point Groot would pull ahead with (x) amount of Archon bonuses.
In my opinion, razorwood + earth + air are the staple. tiger is the summon. Last one can be swapped out depending on content.
Admittedly I haven't tested this recently so it's kind of pure speculation at this point. And I actually think that the devs made a decent push to clean some of this stuff up a bit in the last year. But given the history of this game and proc interactions, it wouldn't surprise me if there were some issues with certain builds. It certainly could contribute to hesitancy / perception.
No if you play Devotion, or prefer defensive tactics.
If you have any alt as a DPS class, it would be worth it to stuff the Razorwood on said DPS alt. If that's not an option, you could always dump it on the AH and let Adam Smith take care of things for you.