Why the SW makes me cry in sorrow.

manufracture · May 2018

Let me start by saying that I main a SW as I really like the idea behind SW and it remains, IMHO, the most interesting and fun class to play. However it is really sad to see one of my favorite SW commentators / content creators make a video like the below which pretty much explains the state of the SW. Basically they have taken really interesting mechanics and made it basically you simply having to apply CURSE and try and stay alive - that is it, that sums up the amount of fun you can have in end-game content. I kinda feel like I want to play out my VIP and then shelve this game - yes I have created other characters but I just don't find them as much fun to play.

Video which really explains the current situation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiWy03NCTGQ

The song which should be playing in the background of his commentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEX1dYyvmig

RIP SW

rikitaki · May 2018

Well, till the changes templock was unusable for the end game content. Now it is a viable path. And as the video states: your gear does not matter much as long as you stay alive. I think that is a reason to rejoice for many templocks that were locked out of the end game content for far too long.

I really doubt that there will be any buff for dps performance of any class - quite contrary - lately every Cryptic action purge more and more dps players out of the game. But that works somehow too, I guess next mod will be fall for the dps GF and in the end every dps will end up on some roughly even baseline.

But at least they try to make the support paths viable. I appreciate that.

gromovnipljesak · May 2018

rikitaki said:
Well, till the changes templock was unusable for the end game content. Now it is a viable path. And as the video states: your gear does not matter much as long as you stay alive. I think that is a reason to rejoice for many templocks that were locked out of the end game content for far too long.

I really doubt that there will be any buff for dps performance of any class - quite contrary - lately every Cryptic action purge more and more dps players out of the game. But that works somehow too, I guess next mod will be fall for the dps GF and in the end every dps will end up on some roughly even baseline.

But at least they try to make the support paths viable. I appreciate that.

Nope. They're buffing the TR in next mod, and currently TRs are already pretty good. 3rd or 4th best DPS class atm. One place higher if you exclude DPS GF. Nerfing pisses everyone off, so they have to be careful.

rikitaki · May 2018

gromovnipljesak#8234 said:

One place higher if you exclude DPS GF.

This sentence is so funny in context.

manufracture · May 2018

rikitaki said:
Well, till the changes templock was unusable for the end game content. Now it is a viable path. And as the video states: your gear does not matter much as long as you stay alive. I think that is a reason to rejoice for many templocks that were locked out of the end game content for far too long.

I really doubt that there will be any buff for dps performance of any class - quite contrary - lately every Cryptic action purge more and more dps players out of the game. But that works somehow too, I guess next mod will be fall for the dps GF and in the end every dps will end up on some roughly even baseline.

But at least they try to make the support paths viable. I appreciate that.

Thank you for posting your opinion, I agree that they are trying I suppose. However it makes little sense to me when a natural "support" class is now a "DPS" class and a class which, when you first create the class states "No subtlety here - you want to deal damage" is basically a class which really has one job - curse targets and buff others. Forget about the healing aspect as this really is pointless in end-game.

The below tells all. They should change this to "You can sort of do damage but your primary role is to make the endgame more enjoyable for others and heal them if they did not insta-die from a one-shot"
sw_desc

Anyway the original post was more of a lament with a link to a full time SW content creator explaining how pointless the class has become.

rikitaki · May 2018

I understand your lament. I did the same when my templock was cut out of the game long time ago.

Anyway - I really do not think SW will get buffed. No specific class will. The game mechanism went awry, not the classes (except the obvious bugs of course.)

But! What I suspect is that all % dmg increases will get soft capped the same way like the % debuff did, taming the buff/debuff mayhem a bit again. (even if the power might stay outside this change to make this as subtle hit by the wrecking ball as it could possibly be.)
And that will shuffle the base a lot, dragging many minor performance adjustments for each class in tow.

Well, at least this is my wishful thinking. Important is to voice your opinion - and you did that.
Lets hope our feedback will be heard - and may be they will even listen.

manufracture · May 2018

I just thought I would leave the below comment made by the video creator in response to my comment on his video. It is a shame that customers are left with such a low expectation from a company whom they are helping stay alive and relevant. It beggars belief in all honesty. Yes I am sure there are a TON of complaints from other builds and clients which they are probably fielding but this is what is referred to as "entropy" which slowly rots away a product.

If Cryptic does not wake up to all the noise perhaps Wizards of the Coast will allow a new developer to take over the Forgotten Realms gaming world so we can get back to a real D&D game?

"Highlighted reply
Garlaanx
1 day ago
Yea, posting anything on the forums won't get anywhere.. They don't care. It would take the whole Warlock Community to spam the forums for any action to be done. The problem is the current "Warlock Community" doesn't think anything is wrong with the class.... GG"

werdandi · May 2018

I can contribute to spam this forum and to ask for extra buffs to SW class

.

While the latest buffs have been nice, especially for temptation tree, the class deserves some additional attention.

The dps SW are good, but are not super good, compared to other top dps classes, whatever their rotation (and taking into account the current bug).
Consequently, other dps classes are always favored when it comes to group composition. Nobody expects a SW to be the HDPS of the group: even if good SWs deal good damage, good dps of other classes can do much better because of their self-buffs/multiproc/aura of courage/synergy.

Now, SWs can find a group easily being templocks, but the SWs that want to be pure strikers are left in the dust...

The thread dedicated to SW buffs for mod 13 already contained some ideas, not yet implemented. To be considered again.

But at that stage, and considering the lack of time developers have, I would suggest to just increase the base damage of at-wills, encounters, dailies (rather than decrease the cooldown of the encounters for instance).

DPS SWs cannot struggle versus a x0 million GWF IBS (also seen x00 millions IBS), or x00 million TR SOD, etc...

rjc9000 · May 2018

werdandi#8366 said:

good dps of other classes can do much better because their self-buffs exist.

Fixed that for you.

werdandi#8366 said:

But at that stage, and considering the lack of time developers have, I would suggest to just increase the base damage of at-wills, encounters, dailies (rather than decrease the cooldown of the encounters for instance).

You could also change every SW feat which procs for (x)% of weapon damage to instead give a self buff.

But ain't nobody got no time for that!

duckntroll · May 2018

So many misleading information and comments...

Let's start with Gaarlanx's build video containing a good number of mistakes making it far from a "good" build (don't follow that!!! Details why.)
Then talks about SW being RIP
- Sure SW isn't loved by dev's at all. (Especially Damnation and Fury. Previously it was Temptation). We have all rights to rage about lack of communication, of attention and globally the unfinished state of the class (including it's balance).
- However high/BiS DPS SW can still easily fast run Tong (principally due to these stupid power-buff-creep) --> The difference is around 5 to 10 minutes : it's absolutly not meaningful for normal players to care about or even discuss it! Not-BiS players caring about META are just pigs.
What to do to make things changes in the good direction?
- Rage --> Ignored, muted, banned.
- Whine --> Ignored if alone. If there is a flood, small concession MIGHT be made.
- Provide advices --> Ignored, except maybe by other agreeding players passing by.
- Leave --> Goodbye!

wintersmoke · May 2018

rikitaki said:
Well, till the changes templock was unusable for the end game content. Now it is a viable path. And as the video states: your gear does not matter much as long as you stay alive. I think that is a reason to rejoice for many templocks that were locked out of the end game content for far too long.

I really doubt that there will be any buff for dps performance of any class - quite contrary - lately every Cryptic action purge more and more dps players out of the game. But that works somehow too, I guess next mod will be fall for the dps GF and in the end every dps will end up on some roughly even baseline.

But at least they try to make the support paths viable. I appreciate that.

I don 't think that the end goal is to purge DPS. They are trying to make ALL classes a viable choice. Since the end-game meta is 1 DPS + 4 buff/debuff, I think what the devs are trying to do is make sure that as many players as possible can engage in the content. Remember, the devs did not create the meta groups.

vordayn · May 2018

wintersmoke said:
I don 't think that the end goal is to purge DPS. They are trying to make ALL classes a viable choice. Since the end-game meta is 1 DPS + 4 buff/debuff, I think what the devs are trying to do is make sure that as many players as possible can engage in the content. Remember, the devs did not create the meta groups.

They did. Maybe unintentially (but is this any better?). The TONG Orcus mechanic whereby only 1 character picks up the DPS boost (what is it, a 400% damage buff??) essentially means they are rewarding the 1 DPS + 4 support meta. It's the most efficient way for a boss like this. Especially when you are punished by those damn green balls which one shot everything when the temp HP disappears. Those balls will be more likely to smack you about the more you deviate from this meta. Talk about the stick! (Or in this case, the ball.) It isn't subtle at all!

It is a nightmare for PUG groups for this reason - they are so far away from the meta that it is nearly impossible for most. It is doable, but hell is it a struggle without the meta, or even the 2DPS + 3 support sub-meta. Trust me, I've tried the RQ 'Hero's Accord' with my 16k+ DC (which regularly runs sub 16-17min TONGs in organised groups, even as solo DC) where there was a 17k GWF and 15k OP in my group but the two other ~13k 'DPS' (a CW and a TR) had no idea what they were doing. They weren't even in charge of any of the curses. The 17k GWF was a strong player - I've run TONG with him before in an organised group (we just joined the RQ because we were bored that day). The CW was playing SS and didn't have a MoF loadout and refused to learn.

So sometimes it is not just about 'adding 5-10 minutes to the run', for others, it is about dying multiple times at Orcus and the increased likelihood of not completing the dungeon the more you deviate from the meta.

The more the devs push with this meta, the more DPS chars are gonna get the smackdown. Hence why arguably the 4th and 5th Tier DPS (CW, SW) are feeling like they cannot spec as damage dealers in end-game content, even though this is what their original role was conveyed to be on character creation!

The inherent base powers, mechanics and lack of self-buffing of the SW (barring the buglock) means that they are less likely to be chosen as 1st or 2nd tier DPS, and are thus more likely to be excluded from groups like this in end-game content, unless they choose to become support, or rather 'coerced to' by system design.

vordayn · May 2018

duckntroll said:

However high/BiS DPS SW can still easily fast run Tong (principally due to these stupid power-buff-creep) --> The difference is around 5 to 10 minutes : it's absolutly not meaningful for normal players to care about or even discuss it! Not-BiS players caring about META are just pigs.

Respectfully disagree. In fact, 'normal players' are the ones who should be discussing it. The so-called 'meta players' already know what is most efficient and thus farm the hell out of TONG and Cradle. You need to care about the meta in end-game content - see my post above.

Why the SW makes me cry in sorrow.

Comments