Group research: a common problem

diogene21 · February 2018

I find that neverwinter is a fabulous game, but at the same time has no flaws that make it hateful to me and (I can assure it from what I read around) to many other players. perfection is certainly not demanded, but on some aspects it is necessary to intervene. more than anyone else, what I care about is the automatic search system for dungeons; too often, in fact, this system tends to put in the same group players who have just started with real veterans. although the system balances the level of the characters, so that everyone can start from a common base, this can not be said for the equipment, whose level remains unchanged, or, if this changes (sincerely I ignore it), it changes little . it follows that these "veterans" play a dungeon all their own, oneshot everything that moves, and they go forward without waiting for you. I think that this thing does not please anyone: first of all new players, who obviously lose all the fun in doing dungeons with their fellows (those with the same level of character and equipment); secondly I think it should not please the development team, which obviously has worked on these dungeons and does not see "appreciated" their efforts. since I do not like just criticizing, I would like to give advice (I have some experience with this type of games). why not prevent players with a level higher than that required by the dungeon (higher, for example, 5-6 levels) get in line? this obviously will not preclude the possibility that these do those dungeons. do they want to participate in that some strange reason? or give a hand to those players who cares to level with a hurry? good! then they form a group and go "physically" into the dungeon. I would like to clarify (I hope no one is offended) that this system is the same used in WoW, so it is not just my "fantasy". I hope someone from the development team takes this hypothesis into consideration. I think the problem is common, so if you agree, I ask you to make this problem "visibility". it would benefit the game itself ...

time2011 · February 2018

well if you don't like those people run with friends/guildies/allies. you don't have to que with random people

wintersmoke · February 2018

time2011 said:
well if you don't like those people run with friends/guildies/allies. you don't have to que with random people

Low level players (15 - 25or so) don't have the option to join a guild or make friends, because their ability to communicate is deactivated. Also, these characters are limited to 2 dungeons.

plasticbat · February 2018

diogene21 said:
I find that neverwinter is a fabulous game, but at the same time has no flaws that make it hateful to me and (I can assure it from what I read around) to many other players. perfection is certainly not demanded, but on some aspects it is necessary to intervene. more than anyone else, what I care about is the automatic search system for dungeons; too often, in fact, this system tends to put in the same group players who have just started with real veterans. although the system balances the level of the characters, so that everyone can start from a common base, this can not be said for the equipment, whose level remains unchanged, or, if this changes (sincerely I ignore it), it changes little . it follows that these "veterans" play a dungeon all their own, oneshot everything that moves, and they go forward without waiting for you. I think that this thing does not please anyone: first of all new players, who obviously lose all the fun in doing dungeons with their fellows (those with the same level of character and equipment); secondly I think it should not please the development team, which obviously has worked on these dungeons and does not see "appreciated" their efforts. since I do not like just criticizing, I would like to give advice (I have some experience with this type of games). why not prevent players with a level higher than that required by the dungeon (higher, for example, 5-6 levels) get in line? this obviously will not preclude the possibility that these do those dungeons. do they want to participate in that some strange reason? or give a hand to those players who cares to level with a hurry? good! then they form a group and go "physically" into the dungeon. I would like to clarify (I hope no one is offended) that this system is the same used in WoW, so it is not just my "fantasy". I hope someone from the development team takes this hypothesis into consideration. I think the problem is common, so if you agree, I ask you to make this problem "visibility". it would benefit the game itself ...

This problem was created by the introduction of Random Queue (RQ) which was supposed to help new players to queue low level dungeon faster (because it took forever for low level player to form a random group to go into the dungeon). Most veterans do not want to go to low level dungeon with new players. They go to low level dungeon to earn AD and they want to do that super fast.

Before Random Queue, they could just private solo queue the low level dungeon to earn AD. That would not bother anyone. Now, to earn AD from dungeons, they have to do RQ. If they do public RQ alone (as not forming their own full party of 3), the chance is it will mix with new players.

If the queue separate new players and veteran players (and that is what I prefer), RQ will not fulfil what it means to do -- help new players to queue faster. In short, new players can queue faster because of RQ (yes, that fulfil the mandate) but the experience in general is bad for both type of players.

litaaers · February 2018

wintersmoke said:

time2011 said:
well if you don't like those people run with friends/guildies/allies. you don't have to que with random people
Low level players (15 - 25or so) don't have the option to join a guild or make friends, because their ability to communicate is deactivated. Also, these characters are limited to 2 dungeons.

If a person is < level 25 for more than 2 weeks, their client is broken and they should seek a replacement.

Seriously though, when you say low level players, you are referring to a temporary situation. It shouldn't enter into the reasoning here.

diogene21 · February 2018

I will try to be more precise (although I thought the problem was known). When a player starts playing Neverwinter from the beginning, he finds himself faced with a sort of quest line that leads him to discover all the "maps" of the game. Each map concludes its "storyline" (let's call it that way) with a quest to complete taking part in a dungeon. Am I wrong? Well, every time I tried to participate in one of these dungeons, I always found myself in the company of more "expert" players, who, as mentioned, play the dungeon on their own and eliminate all the mobs that are bypassing the its inside (their oneshot also the boss ... are we serious ???). Imagine how fun it is. Suffice it to say that I do not remember the name or characteristics of a single boss of these dungeons. Do you think this is fun?

mystar · February 2018

I remember it was frustrating trying to play the lower dungeons at low level for the first time because it was a long slow run through an empty dungeon and could never get a shot in when there were enemies in sight. Higher level players have to wait for lower level players and lower level players don't get a whole lot of action, and when they do it's usually too much for them to handle on their own.

For a while I thought the higher levels should be doing higher level dungeons for their AD and the lower level dungeons should be left for the lower levels.
The problem with that is sometimes the dungeons can be too difficult for the lower levels to complete the dungeon just the same as for the higher levels in the higher dungeons. So mixing it up helps keep everything moving at a more steady pace being able to complete the dungeons. Sure, there are still dungeons that have to be abandoned...mainly in the higher levels, but not so much for the lower levels.

The main thing is that being low level is temporary, and as new players keep playing and moving up the ladder they end up in the higher level group who have done the lower level dungeons hundreds of times and just wanna get it over with.
Another thing to consider is the number of higher level players compared to lower level players all trying to get into these dungeons.

The best thing we can do is to just roll with it and not get too frustrated about it because gameplay in the long run for this game is playing the same content over and over again until you get enough AD to buy things needed to upgrade or resources to earn more AD or to trade for Zen to buy keys or other things for upgrades.

New players will most likely understand where these higher level players are coming from when they've reached that level and have "played" the dungeons hundreds of times over and over and over again.

karvare · February 2018

With the random queue, this is not an option. Locking higher levels out of the leveling dungeons locks a level 70 out of AD production until they qualify for FBI then. The effect would hit all players below that thresh hold, hampering there ability to level up enchants and such. When you hit level 70 and cannot generate AD, you are likely to abandon the game.

mystar · February 2018

I'm sure thresholds could be adjusted so that everyone can still earn a fair share of AD. The RQ isn't that bad, the only problem I have with it concerning game play is the wasted time the penalties cause for players trying to play the game because of players who try to get as much they can for nothing.

I still think the best way to curb this whole penalty problem is to make the dungeon or skirmish like any other quest...we need to complete the quest (dungeon/skirmish) we are given before we get paid. If we get PoM then we have to complete PoM and if we disconnect or leave, we get PoM when we reque until PoM is completed. As it is when a dungeon or skirmish is completed the message "Quest Completed" pops up so why not treat it like any other quest?

karvare · February 2018

Well, removing FBI and such from random queue would allow for this; but that is not likely to ever happen. As long as level 70 characters are locked out of ERQ until ready for FBI, they will need to be able to RQ the leveling dungeons.

ilithyn · February 2018

karvare said:
Well, removing FBI and such from random queue would allow for this; but that is not likely to ever happen. As long as level 70 characters are locked out of ERQ until ready for FBI, they will need to be able to RQ the leveling dungeons.

Basically this. And all things equal, I think only one of my toons will ever be FBI ready as long as the Everfrost Resistance requirement remains. I don't really feel like investing the time and effort to get equipment I'll never use for anything else just so I can fulfill the requirement for one dungeon I might end up in.
Idk who's stroke of "brilliance" it was to put that one in the RQ system, but they must have had a serious off day.

zanaspus1 · February 2018

ilithyn said:

karvare said:
Well, removing FBI and such from random queue would allow for this; but that is not likely to ever happen. As long as level 70 characters are locked out of ERQ until ready for FBI, they will need to be able to RQ the leveling dungeons.
Basically this. And all things equal, I think only one of my toons will ever be FBI ready as long as the Everfrost Resistance requirement remains. I don't really feel like investing the time and effort to get equipment I'll never use for anything else just so I can fulfill the requirement for one dungeon I might end up in.
Idk who's stroke of "brilliance" it was to put that one in the RQ system, but they must have had a serious off day.

As long as you do the Storm King's Thunder campaign just far enough to make it to Lonelywood, Makos will give you an item that makes this issue essentially moot.

karvare · February 2018

When you hit 70 you are around 6-7k il. SKT takes alittle more umph than that. So, it is gear up, get boons then the resistance before AD production. That is the problem. A character that has outleveled a leveling dungeon will take time to gear up for FBI resistance or not. No AD til 12k? 10k? Would you continue to play?

ilithyn · February 2018

zanaspus1 said:

ilithyn said:

karvare said:
Well, removing FBI and such from random queue would allow for this; but that is not likely to ever happen. As long as level 70 characters are locked out of ERQ until ready for FBI, they will need to be able to RQ the leveling dungeons.
Basically this. And all things equal, I think only one of my toons will ever be FBI ready as long as the Everfrost Resistance requirement remains. I don't really feel like investing the time and effort to get equipment I'll never use for anything else just so I can fulfill the requirement for one dungeon I might end up in.
Idk who's stroke of "brilliance" it was to put that one in the RQ system, but they must have had a serious off day.
As long as you do the Storm King's Thunder campaign just far enough to make it to Lonelywood, Makos will give you an item that makes this issue essentially moot.

Eh, no? Yeah sure, his ring gives a good boost but I still need other items and/or potions and frankly I can't be arsed to do that on anything but my main for a dungeon I might end up in. It's the might that's my issue here. If I decided to run any of the SKT stuff on any of my alts, then yes of course I'd invest, but here I'm forced to meet requirements for something I may or may not end up doing. It's beyond moronic and I refuse to comply.
So, no random Epic Dungeons on my alts then, I'll just stick to the normal ones on those *shrug*

plasticbat · February 2018

ilithyn said:

zanaspus1 said:

ilithyn said:

karvare said:
Well, removing FBI and such from random queue would allow for this; but that is not likely to ever happen. As long as level 70 characters are locked out of ERQ until ready for FBI, they will need to be able to RQ the leveling dungeons.
Basically this. And all things equal, I think only one of my toons will ever be FBI ready as long as the Everfrost Resistance requirement remains. I don't really feel like investing the time and effort to get equipment I'll never use for anything else just so I can fulfill the requirement for one dungeon I might end up in.
Idk who's stroke of "brilliance" it was to put that one in the RQ system, but they must have had a serious off day.
As long as you do the Storm King's Thunder campaign just far enough to make it to Lonelywood, Makos will give you an item that makes this issue essentially moot.
Eh, no? Yeah sure, his ring gives a good boost but I still need other items and/or potions and frankly I can't be arsed to do that on anything but my main for a dungeon I might end up in. It's the might that's my issue here. If I decided to run any of the SKT stuff on any of my alts, then yes of course I'd invest, but here I'm forced to meet requirements for something I may or may not end up doing. It's beyond moronic and I refuse to comply.
So, no random Epic Dungeons on my alts then, I'll just stick to the normal ones on those *shrug*

No, he was not talking about the ring (which you get from Cold Run). Way before you get the ring (when you go to Lonelywood and then the quest send you back to BS area), you get an item for 30% everfrost resistance.

With that, you don't need any item or potion to boost up everfrost resistance.

ilithyn · February 2018

plasticbat said:

ilithyn said:

zanaspus1 said:

ilithyn said:

karvare said:
Well, removing FBI and such from random queue would allow for this; but that is not likely to ever happen. As long as level 70 characters are locked out of ERQ until ready for FBI, they will need to be able to RQ the leveling dungeons.
Basically this. And all things equal, I think only one of my toons will ever be FBI ready as long as the Everfrost Resistance requirement remains. I don't really feel like investing the time and effort to get equipment I'll never use for anything else just so I can fulfill the requirement for one dungeon I might end up in.
Idk who's stroke of "brilliance" it was to put that one in the RQ system, but they must have had a serious off day.
As long as you do the Storm King's Thunder campaign just far enough to make it to Lonelywood, Makos will give you an item that makes this issue essentially moot.
Eh, no? Yeah sure, his ring gives a good boost but I still need other items and/or potions and frankly I can't be arsed to do that on anything but my main for a dungeon I might end up in. It's the might that's my issue here. If I decided to run any of the SKT stuff on any of my alts, then yes of course I'd invest, but here I'm forced to meet requirements for something I may or may not end up doing. It's beyond moronic and I refuse to comply.
So, no random Epic Dungeons on my alts then, I'll just stick to the normal ones on those *shrug*
No, he was not talking about the ring (which you get from Cold Run). Way before you get the ring (when you go to Lonelywood and then the quest send you back to BS area), you get an item for 30% everfrost resistance.

With that, you don't need any item or potion to boost up everfrost resistance.

What item would that be?

plasticbat · February 2018

ilithyn said:

plasticbat said:

ilithyn said:

zanaspus1 said:

ilithyn said:

karvare said:
Well, removing FBI and such from random queue would allow for this; but that is not likely to ever happen. As long as level 70 characters are locked out of ERQ until ready for FBI, they will need to be able to RQ the leveling dungeons.
Basically this. And all things equal, I think only one of my toons will ever be FBI ready as long as the Everfrost Resistance requirement remains. I don't really feel like investing the time and effort to get equipment I'll never use for anything else just so I can fulfill the requirement for one dungeon I might end up in.
Idk who's stroke of "brilliance" it was to put that one in the RQ system, but they must have had a serious off day.
As long as you do the Storm King's Thunder campaign just far enough to make it to Lonelywood, Makos will give you an item that makes this issue essentially moot.
Eh, no? Yeah sure, his ring gives a good boost but I still need other items and/or potions and frankly I can't be arsed to do that on anything but my main for a dungeon I might end up in. It's the might that's my issue here. If I decided to run any of the SKT stuff on any of my alts, then yes of course I'd invest, but here I'm forced to meet requirements for something I may or may not end up doing. It's beyond moronic and I refuse to comply.
So, no random Epic Dungeons on my alts then, I'll just stick to the normal ones on those *shrug*
No, he was not talking about the ring (which you get from Cold Run). Way before you get the ring (when you go to Lonelywood and then the quest send you back to BS area), you get an item for 30% everfrost resistance.

With that, you don't need any item or potion to boost up everfrost resistance.
What item would that be?

Periapt of Everfrost Resistance. The item will go to your key tab section in your inventory. Google that name for more information. If your character already passed that stage before mod 12 (or may be mod 12b), that item would be delivered through mail.

karvare · February 2018

Well again, the resistance is not all holding a new 70 from FBI. There are lots of boons to get and campaigns to run. 6k does not suddenly make you ready for FBI. How will you prepare for FBI without AD to level up enchants and such? How do you buy the artifacts you want for your build? Do we want more sub10k people running in FBI?

plasticbat · February 2018

karvare said:
Well again, the resistance is not all holding a new 70 from FBI. There are lots of boons to get and campaigns to run. 6k does not suddenly make you ready for FBI. How will you prepare for FBI without AD to level up enchants and such? How do you buy the artifacts you want for your build? Do we want more sub10k people running in FBI?

Not sure why you bring up 6K and sub 10k. The minimum item level to do FBI is 11K. The resistance is what holding up 11k+ people to do Epic Dungeon RQ and they prepare to take leave penalty if the RQ picks FBI and tougher.

For 6K level 70, I am not sure if they can do SKT to begin with. They can't even do CN.

karvare · February 2018

Ok, it is like this; you level your brand new first time ever character from 1 to 70 in no time what so ever. Say a good weekend.
Now, you've made it and the fun can begin right? Nope, you are geared in leveling armor and you have only an off hand artifact and it is not so great anymore. Lets get you some AD, lets see the RQ? Nope, they are limited now to only players in the right level range. The ERQ? RIGHT!(sarcasm alert) Then it is salvage and weeklies for you bucko. That's ok tho eventually we will let you earn them again. Just don't quit because you think this is a rather dumb situation tho.

plasticbat · February 2018

karvare said:
Ok, it is like this; you level your brand new first time ever character from 1 to 70 in no time what so ever. Say a good weekend.
Now, you've made it and the fun can begin right? Nope, you are geared in leveling armor and you have only an off hand artifact and it is not so great anymore. Lets get you some AD, lets see the RQ? Nope, they are limited now to only players in the right level range. The ERQ? RIGHT!(sarcasm alert) Then it is salvage and weeklies for you bucko. That's ok tho eventually we will let you earn them again. Just don't quit because you think this is a rather dumb situation tho.

They are now limited to only players in the right level range?
I personally don't like any part of RQ, period but that is a different story.

karvare · February 2018

Thinking about it, if the leveling dungeons are limited to level appropriate then once you out level cloak tower, you too are prevented from RQ AD generation. That was the suggestion of the OP, I see a slight problem in that suggestion.

trinity706 · March 2018

mystar#5733 said:
I still think the best way to curb this whole penalty problem is to make the dungeon or skirmish like any other quest...we need to complete the quest (dungeon/skirmish) we are given before we get paid. If we get PoM then we have to complete PoM and if we disconnect or leave, we get PoM when we reque until PoM is completed. As it is when a dungeon or skirmish is completed the message "Quest Completed" pops up so why not treat it like any other quest?

^ Makes sense.

Personally started some new characters recently and often enough the groups they get into are "at level" (full group of LLC's). It's funny though because when the HLC's queue the rest of the group is essentially comprised of LLC's as well so on one end carrying others on HLC's, then when on the other end getting grouped with at level characters and struggling...

Group research: a common problem

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