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Vorpal vs Lightening Enchantment. Which one for Spellstorm Mage?

ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
edited January 2018 in The Library
I'm seeing more and more players using Lightning Enchantment. Does it excel Vorpal in dealing with multiple mobs?

And what about single target damage (ex: boss fight)? Which enchantment is bringing a better result to Spellstorm Mage in that situation?

Comments

  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,405 Arc User
    In regards to either situations, I would not use a Vorpal on the condition I can purchase something else.
    Vorpal isn't "bad", but many other enchantments outperform Vorpal on CW.

    Lightning works best on the assumption your attacks hit many times, the attack hits quickly, and said attacks hit as many mobs as you can. This describes CW attacks in a nutshell, resulting in Lightning being the very best option for CWs on AoE.

    In regards to single target DPS on CW, you are best off with a Feytouched. Feytouched is the best choice when trying to power up your main single target damage dealers (Disintegrate and Ice Knife) in addition to being the only enchantment which influences the damage of your non Critting stuff (Aura of Courage, Assailant, Storm Spell), unlike Vorpal.

    If you only had enough money to pick one enchantment for all situations, I would pick the Feytouched. Single target fights (aka boss fights) are amongst the most important in the game and CWs evisterate mobs without trying.

    Better to pick the enchantment which helps you on the most important parts of the game, rather than pick the enchantment which only helps you clear enemies a few seconds faster.

  • metalicum1metalicum1 Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    Vorpal is overrated.
    You can get crit severity without Weapon enchant.
    75 base
    10 Belial
    15+9.3+12 *1.1 CA damage converted to severity (assuming 1400 stat, 22 CHA, Boon, and CA) about 40%
    10 for Wild Storm
    8 Dragon boon

    that's
    100 base attack
    75+10+40+10+8
    that's 243% hit
    If you add Trans Vorpal it's an increase in all dmg that crits about 20.5%, Just crits, nothing else, no enchant proc. Some dmg cannot even crit, soemtimes you don't proc bonding soon, etc.

    Fey is 18% at trans, and it boosts everything, AND it is it's own WE dmg proc. Way better choice for Single target.
    At unpara the difference is even bigger

    For AoE Lightning has no opponent. The arcs are just too massive part of CWs dmg output in AoE.
    Aris Meyde CW MoF Renegade

    [PS4] Alliance - House Stargaryen
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    The Devs have stated that Lightning multi-proc will be removed in mod 13. While the exact details won't be known for some time, it is probably not a good time to spend AD on one as a CW.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    pitshade said:

    The Devs have stated that Lightning multi-proc will be removed in mod 13. While the exact details won't be known for some time, it is probably not a good time to spend AD on one as a CW.

    Providing a link would be super-helpful.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/comment/12995342


    sgrantdev posted. There was additional discussion down thread where a vague promise was given to compensate for damage lost due to the change.

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/comment/12995541
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    @rjc9000 @metalicum1 @pitshade

    Thank you for all your explanations and inputs on Lightning Enchantment. This enchantment, as it currently is, really is having no opponent in AOE damage, as we all are seeing. Since the multi-proc is going to be fixed in Mod 13, we can foresee that the enchantment's contribution in CW's dps will receive a reduction. Would Vorpal Enchantment then possibly be favored again? If not, would you guys simply migrate to using Feytouched Enchantment for both AOE and single target situations?
    Post edited by ianthewizard2012 on
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    I'm going to go with Feytouched, most likely since a significant portion of CW damage comes from sources that can't crit.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    pitshade said:

    I'm going to go with Feytouched, most likely since a significant portion of CW damage comes from sources that can't crit.

    My memory might be a bit dated, but which of our damage sources are significant and can't crit? I can only recall the pillar of lightning created by Storm Pillar doesn't crit. Maybe you're referring to a certain damage sources in Thaumaturge tree? I can't speak for Thaumaturge now because I chose Oppressor, and I only managed to choose three feats in the Thaumaturge tree: Tempest Magic, Destructive Wizardry, and Elemental Reinforcement. I should have mentioned at the beginning that I chose Oppressor. Sorry about that.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,405 Arc User
    edited January 2018

    Would Vorpal Enchantment then possibly be favored again?

    Unlikely, so as long as Feytouched exists.

    If not, would you guys simply migrate to using Feytouched Enchantment for both AOE and single target situations?

    I would probably just run Feytouched 24/7 and call it a day.

    I should have mentioned at the beginning that I chose Oppressor. Sorry about that.

    ...

    There is nothing relevant to control in the game, unlike classic CN or classic SP.
    Enemies are either CC immune, or die so quickly that you might as well run a SS Thaum/SS Rene build

    Hence why everyone assumed you were running a SS Thaum build: because there's very little reason to play Oppressor.


    My memory might be a bit dated, but which of our damage sources are significant and can't crit? I can only recall the pillar of lightning created by Storm Pillar doesn't crit. Maybe you're referring to a certain damage sources in Thaumaturge tree? I can't speak for Thaumaturge now because I chose Oppressor, and I only managed to choose three feats in the Thaumaturge tree: Tempest Magic, Destructive Wizardry, and Elemental Reinforcement. I should have mentioned at the beginning that I chose Oppressor. Sorry about that.

    Anyways, here is an ACT log recorded by Sharp on a SS Thaum CW, Freedom, during a Tomb of the 9 Gods run.



    The sources of damage which didn't Crit were Aura of Courage, Assailaint (Thaum capstone), and Storm Spell (note that 11% of Freedom's total Storm Spell procs Critted due to a bug pertaining to the Storm Spell offhand bonus).

    The reasoning this is important is, if you combine all of those damage sources, we can say that about 40% of Freedom's DPS didn't Crit (you can knock off a % here and there due to the offhand bug, but that's not the point).

    That's nearly half of Freedom's damage output... why would he bother with a Vorpal when there's a large portion of his DPS which didn't Crit?

    Feytouched influences all of his DPS, rather than only 60% of it.

  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    We start off with a 75% base crit severity. With boons that can be increased to around 90%. Crit Severity has diminishing returns where it makes more sense investing into an enchantment that boost your damage % such as Fey or one that will do better debuffing on target (for the group) such as Terror or Plague Fire. An alternative is Lighting for burning through adds but on bosses it is not the best enchantment.

    Personally I went with Trans Flaming and now I am trying to swap that out for a Trans Plague Fire since I normally am running my CW as a MoF buff build.

    Crit Severity companions are less valuable IMO than a companion that provides a damage % boost.

  • ravnazrael1ravnazrael1 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    Personally I like dread enchantment as it works well for both single target and aoe and alot of our powers can crit so it seems to help alot. When I tried a feytouched I didnt really notice the results as I do with Dread. However I play on ps4 and do not have ACT so Its hard to tell exactly.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    "There is nothing relevant to control in the game, unlike classic CN or classic SP.
    Enemies are either CC immune, or die so quickly that you might as well run a SS Thaum/SS Rene build "

    Even back then we ran Thaum or Renegade (before mod 4 was viable DPS spec) in PVE. Oppressor was PVP only except for a brief point on Preview in the mod 4 early builds when it was broken OP damage wise.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    Actually, Oppressor was very viable back then as a Moon Elf/Oppressor WIS build tagging along in the old CN.

    Going without extra control was unheard of. Having one extra Oppressor CW made things safer to play.

    Also, for one brief period in Gauntlgrym had a very OP mechanic of Entangling Force + RoE + Ice Knife + Repel/Shield of sorts.

    That was the only time that Wizards had a real chance to actually play PvP properly. The downside to a Wizard class, as per usual, is that it was always super-squishy.

    I strictly remember many GWF and GF players asking for the removal of the control properties. Most of them were uncalled for.

    Even after that nerf the powers started doing half of the controlling options up to a point where it's completely laughable now to use the control anywhere.

    The Control Wizard, ironically, isn't either Control nor Wizard anymore.

    Again, it's a class for Enthusiasts of the concise gameplay. Many people perfected it which I like to think or believe that is the main reason of why the class isn't buffed to any extent.

    The entire class is mechanically stripped from it's best attributes over and over again.

    First it was the control. Compensation was damage.
    Then it was the high damage nerf. Compensation was nowhere.
    Then it is the proc nerf coming soon. Compensation quite possibly nowhere.

    TL:RD : If you remove the controlling options, then you're left with the damage. If you remove the damage, then you're left with buff/debuff/procs. If you remove those, what good comes from it?

    All classes outperform in something. CW doesn't. The class itself outperforms differently, and that is having some of the most dedicated individuals who always find a way for the class being useful, one way or another. Continuous nerfs will drive them away, eventually.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    rjc9000 said:

    I would probably just run Feytouched 24/7 and call it a day.

    Thanks. I had prepared enough shards of Feytouched in my bank, and would definitely make one when I'm ready. By the way, I also heard that Feytouched has a draw back that you won't get the buff if someone else already used Feytouched on the same mob. So after more players go for Feytouched, that draw back would become more prominent, wouldn't it?



    We start off with a 75% base crit severity. With boons that can be increased to around 90%. Crit Severity has diminishing returns where it makes more sense investing into an enchantment that boost your damage % such as Fey or one that will do better debuffing on target (for the group) such as Terror or Plague Fire. An alternative is Lighting for burning through adds but on bosses it is not the best enchantment.

    Personally I went with Trans Flaming and now I am trying to swap that out for a Trans Plague Fire since I normally am running my CW as a MoF buff build.

    Crit Severity companions are less valuable IMO than a companion that provides a damage % boost.

    Thank you for letting me know Critical Severity has diminishing return. I wasn't aware of that at all. After a bit searches, I found more information.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,405 Arc User

    rjc9000 said:

    I would probably just run Feytouched 24/7 and call it a day.

    Thanks. I had prepared enough shards of Feytouched in my bank, and would definitely make one when I'm ready. By the way, I also heard that Feytouched has a draw back that you won't get the buff if someone else already used Feytouched on the same mob. So after more players go for Feytouched, that draw back would become more prominent, wouldn't it?
    This. rumor. is. false. and. has. been. since. Module. 11b.

    I disproved it in my weapon enchantment comparison here.

    Use CTR+F and type in "Debunking the Multiple Feytouched Rumor" or use the Table of Contents if you would like to see my tests and ACT logs.

  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    rjc9000 said:

    I would probably just run Feytouched 24/7 and call it a day.

    Thanks. I had prepared enough shards of Feytouched in my bank, and would definitely make one when I'm ready. By the way, I also heard that Feytouched has a draw back that you won't get the buff if someone else already used Feytouched on the same mob. So after more players go for Feytouched, that draw back would become more prominent, wouldn't it?
    This. rumor. is. false. and. has. been. since. Module. 11b.

    I disproved it in my weapon enchantment comparison here.

    Use CTR+F and type in "Debunking the Multiple Feytouched Rumor" or use the Table of Contents if you would like to see my tests and ACT logs.
    Interesting.

    What about this scenario - If one uses Pure Fey and other uses Trans fey?

    Are buffs complimentary to one another or the one who hits second will get the benefits from both weapon enchants at the same time or is only the one who attacks the first the one who applies the bonus?
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,405 Arc User

    rjc9000 said:

    rjc9000 said:

    I would probably just run Feytouched 24/7 and call it a day.

    Thanks. I had prepared enough shards of Feytouched in my bank, and would definitely make one when I'm ready. By the way, I also heard that Feytouched has a draw back that you won't get the buff if someone else already used Feytouched on the same mob. So after more players go for Feytouched, that draw back would become more prominent, wouldn't it?
    This. rumor. is. false. and. has. been. since. Module. 11b.

    I disproved it in my weapon enchantment comparison here.

    Use CTR+F and type in "Debunking the Multiple Feytouched Rumor" or use the Table of Contents if you would like to see my tests and ACT logs.
    Interesting.

    What about this scenario - If one uses Pure Fey and other uses Trans fey?

    Are buffs complimentary to one another or the one who hits second will get the benefits from both weapon enchants at the same time or is only the one who attacks the first the one who applies the bonus?
    I predict that both users will get their respective buffs, and the opponent's damage will only debuffed by the Trans Fey %.

    I suspect the tooltip text for Feytouched is just fluff, the whole "steal 18% of their damage thing". I think that the Fey buff just works like most other damage buffs: if you fulfill the condition to activate the buff, you activate the buff, rather than it stealing any damage.

    (This wouldn't be the first time that tooltip descriptions are ... hilariously off...)

    Anyways, I don't have any data on that particular scenario on me. Given time, I could go out on preview, give it a try, and report here with results.

  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    Well... speaking of "steal", do you guys regard the effect of Feytouched as stealing? The tooltip doesn't mention "steal" and only says "siphon away". And the effect is just a temporarily effect that lasts for 10 or 20 seconds. After the effect expires, the damage returns to its owner. So I think it's not like the enchantment helps us steal the damage and take possession of it.
  • kozi001kozi001 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    Is Feytouched better than even Bilethorn for single target?
    Haven't checked for a long time.

    Not to mention this mod13 nerf/fix:
    Feytouched Enchantment: This enchantment no longer procs multiple times from the same power.
  • shockerizershockerizer Member Posts: 78 Arc User
    Feytouched Enchantment: This enchantment no longer procs multiple times from the same power.
    Transcendent Lightning Enchantment: The Lightning Burst effect can now crit.

    From the patch notes.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    It looks like the Devs is pushing Dread on us as CW. Not a good sign IMO.
  • ravnazrael1ravnazrael1 Member Posts: 36 Arc User

    It looks like the Devs is pushing Dread on us as CW. Not a good sign IMO.


    Seems that way.
    I still prefer lightning as a mof renegade for the recharge speed bonus.
    Unless that changes I think I will be sticking with that.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    It looks like the Devs is pushing Dread on us as CW. Not a good sign IMO.


    Seems that way.
    I still prefer lightning as a mof renegade for the recharge speed bonus.
    Unless that changes I think I will be sticking with that.
    My DC and CW both uses the same type of companion gear and when I run buffer I simply grab my DC companion gear which has Silvery R12 in it which provides me around 8K more in my recovery and my base is around 10K. So when I run buffer I'm around 18-19K in recovery which is very close to having 100% up time on my dailies.
  • ravnazrael1ravnazrael1 Member Posts: 36 Arc User

    It looks like the Devs is pushing Dread on us as CW. Not a good sign IMO.


    Seems that way.
    I still prefer lightning as a mof renegade for the recharge speed bonus.
    Unless that changes I think I will be sticking with that.
    My DC and CW both uses the same type of companion gear and when I run buffer I simply grab my DC companion gear which has Silvery R12 in it which provides me around 8K more in my recovery and my base is around 10K. So when I run buffer I'm around 18-19K in recovery which is very close to having 100% up time on my dailies.
    Fair point. what would you advise then for a mof renegade for weapon enchant?
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