TR, again. but this time with two very simple suggestions.

maxthakilla · December 2017

Being one of the top TR (PVE) on PC i have been thinking a lot about very simple changes that would make TR great again.

I got 2 very simple suggestions that would make us all TR very happy.

1. Make ''Deft Strike'' the best single dmg encounter (better than Lashing Blade) so we will use it in our combo and we will be backstabbing again !!!

''Deft Strike'' is an amazingly fun encounter to use and it works great it just need to do some decent damage to be used.

2.Make the At-Will ''Sly Flourish'' stronger than ''Duelist Flurry''

for the simple fact that stacking ''Duelist Flurry'' poison is such a pain and the animation is very slow thus making our dmg way lower and we feel sluggish trying to damage many monsters or a boss that is always moving.

Thank you very much for your time and I appreciate all the efforts that you put in this game.

A Loyal, devoted and thankful customer.
Baneofhate

trgluestickz · December 2017

maxthakilla said:
Being one of the top TR (PVE) on PC i have been thinking a lot about very simple changes that would make TR great again.

I got 2 very simple suggestions that would make us all TR very happy.

1. Make ''Deft Strike'' the best single dmg encounter (better than Lashing Blade) so we will use it in our combo and we will be backstabbing again !!!

''Deft Strike'' is an amazingly fun encounter to use and it works great it just need to do some decent damage to be used.

2.Make the At-Will ''Sly Flourish'' stronger than ''Duelist Flurry''

for the simple fact that stacking ''Duelist Flurry'' poison is such a pain and the animation is very slow thus making our dmg way lower and we feel sluggish trying to damage many monsters or a boss that is always moving.

Thank you very much for your time and I appreciate all the efforts that you put in this game.

A Loyal, devoted and thankful customer.
Baneofhate

I get the appeal of simple fixes but this is a little too simplistic and would not be enough to "make TR great again". One of the major issues with the TR class is that we have very little build variety, your changes would change the meta to something else but everyone would still feel pigeonholed into using the same setup as each other. These 2 changes are also very unlikely to be enough for TR dps to catch up to other class's dps, which is another major thing that needs to happen.

As for deft strike, its one of my favorite powers and I would love to be able to slot it again without being penalized for it. However, I do not want to see any more best in slot only way to play powers. I want as many powers and feats as possible to become viable again instead.

As for duelist's flurry, I do not wish to see sly flourish replace duelist's flurry as the new meta power. I would rather see sly flourish damage catch up to duelist's flurry damage instead. I think there should still be pros and cons to weigh for using one power vs the other but the difference should be small enough for people to still be able pick which power they want as their primary at will without taking a huge penalty for it.

That said, I agree that the TR class has become too dependent on delayed damage and we need more immediate damage. There are better ways to fix this than making DF no longer able to compete with other at wills though. Here are some other ways to decrease TR dependance on slow damage and also raise our overall dps:

--- Many executioner feats also contribute to the delayed damage issue and often do not have time to proc before your team has already killed everything. Reworking some of these slower feats would help with the delayed dps issue.

--- Increasing the base damage of all TR encounter and at will powers by buffing things like feats, powers, and weapon damage also would help with this. It would make it so the fast damage sources we do have can do more damage.

--- Updating as many unloved TR powers as possible so that some of our faster damage powers can now compete with the delayed ones also would help amend this issue.

--- The TRs who worked on the TR rework thread also have suggested that the devs make DF more efficient at applying bleeds. This would also help ease our issues with delayed damage. They wanted to see 1 DF consistently apply all 10 stacks of bleed instead of TRs needing to do 2 or 3 DFs to hit 10 bleed stacks.

--- Another good change that has been proposed is increasing the attack speed of gloaming cut by 50% or more so that it can better compete with sly flourish and duelist's flurry. Its a comically slow power but it does a lot of damage per hit, its just currently too slow to be viable.

--- Making disheartening strike less clunky and fixing its casting interrupt bugs would also improve attack speed for WK TRs.

maxthakilla · December 2017

I totally agree with you, but the goal of my post is not to make TR perfect but simply viable in a single day of programing.
I gave up the hope of such complicated fixes. I do not think they will attempt it.
Which is why i gave them the easiest and simplest fixes possible for us to at least enjoy our class a little more.
Duelist flurry poison is extremely buggy.. it does'nt work with most buffs (orcus set is a good exemple) and that require a lot of fixing which is why i gave the option just to higher the damage of said Sly flourish.
I also did'nt pretend this would make TR great again but at least by making Deft Strike our strongest damaging single target skill... we would be backstabing again.
Once this is all said tho... deep down.. i really wish they would do a complete rework and make us the boss killers we are suppose to be, but will it really happen?

trgluestickz · December 2017

maxthakilla said:
I totally agree with you, but the goal of my post is not to make TR perfect but simply viable in a single day of programing.
I gave up the hope of such complicated fixes. I do not think they will attempt it.
Which is why i gave them the easiest and simplest fixes possible for us to at least enjoy our class a little more.
Duelist flurry poison is extremely buggy.. it does'nt work with most buffs (orcus set is a good exemple) and that require a lot of fixing which is why i gave the option just to higher the damage of said Sly flourish.
I also did'nt pretend this would make TR great again but at least by making Deft Strike our strongest damaging single target skill... we would be backstabing again.
Once this is all said tho... deep down.. i really wish they would do a complete rework and make us the boss killers we are suppose to be, but will it really happen?

I don't want the TR class to undersell its needs by asking for overly simplistic and flawed improvements. We have been bending over backwards to try and accommodate the dev's busy schedules already. Besides, it will ultimately be the devs and not the players who decide what changes are and are not too difficult to implement. I think we should provide the best options at every turn instead of giving the devs mediocre but easy ideas in a desperate attempt to get anything at all. If we give the devs mediocre ideas in an attempt to make our requests easier than easy and the devs actually implement them, the odds of TRs NOT being happy with the end result is very high. If this happens, the devs will come to the conclusion that we are impossible to please and that they probably shouldn't cave to our requests in the future because its a waste of resources.

In short, I've been seeing a lot of TRs lower their standards too much and I think its going to backfire if the devs go with only the lowest hanging fruit.

Worse case scenario is that one of these overly simplistic changes will be too flawed and end up breaking something. That is what happened with the recent SOD tweak. The devs went with an easy mediocre improvement and the result was catastrophic. SOD is now overpowered in PVP and leaving it this way would make it next to impossible for the devs to buff TR overall damage in PVE without making TRs even more overpowered in PVP. The SOD change ended up being a waste since its going to have to be removed in order to make TRs balancable again. I don't want to see any more cheep bandaid fixes when what we really need is a real rework not just 1 or 2 little fixes. A good rework is the only way to come close to balancing TRs for both PVP and PVE and its the only way to really fix the problems the TR class has been begging the devs to fix.

maxthakilla · December 2017

''overly simplistic'' i agree,
''flawed improvements'' I disagree
''mediocre ideas'' I disagree
''TRs lower their standards too much'' I agree

I got your point and i know you are personally and emotionally involved in this situation judging by the terms you are using.
I am also very disappointed as a TR myself but we need to be realistic and not insulting eachother ideas.
As a Programmer, i know the job behind the ideas and a complete rework is unlikely to happen.
I did my part by writting a comment that i thought was realistic and better than absolute nothingness.
Now i can say i did my part.
Sorry if you disagree but seeing how the TR community is totally ignored for years, i do not see them putting more than a day of work into this issue.
This is me lowering my standards, yes. But at least i am not giving up entirely like most of us TR did and quit the game or rerolled and forgotten.
And if EVER they do rework, well.. those changes would help us wait until that blessed day happens.

TR, again. but this time with two very simple suggestions.

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