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Companions and stats prioritization for Buff/Debuff MoF CW
larsalexander123
Member Posts: 66 Arc User
in The Library
As the title says. I'm a bit troubled on what companions should I use and the stats should I prioritize this mod.\
I'm a 12k CW on PC, running with R9 Bonding Runestones and Duergar Theurge as my summoned companion.
Thanks for the kind and constructive answers.
I'm a 12k CW on PC, running with R9 Bonding Runestones and Duergar Theurge as my summoned companion.
Thanks for the kind and constructive answers.
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This is because debuffs as a whole have been heavily nerfed. Remember that your goal at the end of the day is to make things die, and you can do so with a nuking MoF Thaum or MoF Rene DPS/debuff hybrid. In addition, a pure MoF debuffer spec requires a unique set of gear that would be expensive to field, so cost wise, I'd rather just run a MoF DPS/debuff hybrid and live with my diminished debuff potential.
*By hybrid build, take any SS Thaum build/SS Rene build you see or are currently using, turn it MoF, use same powers/feats, slot in Swath of Destruction + Chilling, apply Smoulder, then play CW as per usual.
If you really want to pursue a pure MoF debuffer build, this website has the best resource there is on pure MoF debuffing.
https://cylernwo.wixsite.com/voodoo
I use DPS companions, and summoned Con Artist for it is the only debuff companion that can help with 6 Offense slots and Crit+Recovery items.
[PS4] Alliance - House Stargaryen
At boss fights we always keep RoE on mastery and there you go. Almost maxed out debuffs while having very good dps. It's always best to keep our options open and adjust to the group we run.
From your prior post you seem more incline to run SoD and CA together which is the best way to run as a pure buffer. My response was from a player stating to play as a Hybrid. If you run full DPS gear and go with CC and SoD you are gaining crit sev of 20% from CC which adds to your damage on all critical attacks, including Smolder. If you have 100% crit, than 20% boost in crit Sev is definitely worth considering if you want to play the hybrid route. By using CC and SoD I can than place ST on tab for Combat Advantage and speed boost to the group.
I did some testing over the weekend. Going CP and CC, CC and SoD, and CP and SoD. The best personal combination for the smoothest and quickest runs with minimal impact to my damage was CC and SoD. The runner up was CP and SoD; using Scorching Burst to apply smolder is not always effective and sometimes you are less likely to hit all targets. I never test CA with CP.
The MoF builds for CW offers us many ways to play our characters. We can go full out DPS, hybrid, or full buffer. The hybrid has the most options.
CP with SoD
CC with SoD
CA with CP
On top of that you could run CP and CC as a Renegade providing some buffs through feats.
I personally like running CC and SoD as a Thuam. My damage is good and I am buffing the groups damage by 20%.
I'm Renegade with high recovery so it does work well using Combustive and Chilling. I would assume also that the OP since he is asking for debuff info, he has decent recharge speed/ap gain too. Combustive has a bit higher debuff than Swath and its easy to spread to everything in range and as I can have a daily up every 10 sec (or sooner) and it last for 10 sec in average, its always on. Chilling gives a lot more damage and therefore faster burn on mobs than CC. So if you are to give up one of the debuff passives, it makes sense specially as renegade to keep your highest and mass debuff and the highest damage buff. It will help lower the time of the dungeon your team does.
Renegade offers more buffs too, I dont need to slot ST in mastery as I give Combat advantage by "default" and when Chaos fury procs (average 42%-45% proc rate in dungeons) while having Ray on mastery, gives a lot more debuff and buff to the team and me. Getting also 15% (45% with nexus) critical for free isn't bad either as it allow us to invest on other stats, specially if you are a new/returning player with low IL.
As far as play style choices, no argument there as I believe people in a game, should enjoy and develop their own style even if its not optimal or the "best". If you and your team succeed on your goals and had fun, that's all that matters.
Note here that, 20% crit severity is not 20% damage, at least not in all cases as its an additive damage buff. When you are in Combat advantage and you crit at the same time, the Combat advantage bonus will become Crit severity too. The more Crit severity you have the less damage increase you gain from it. But I don't think we should expand more to this as it will take us way off topic.
EDIT: I don't think I saw anyone answering on the companions: If you want to go "crazy" on debuffs dancing shield is your best bet but since gears can be hard to get I would suggest Con artist as it uses 3 X rings and rings are pretty easy to find in this module (seals, hunts etc)
My renegade/thau (spell twisting) MoF dps/debuff CW averages about 50-80% debuff (tested solo on target dummy),
without any major sacrifices in personal dps.
Conduit of Ice (tab) + Fanning the Flame + Ray of Enfeeblement + disintegrate
swath of destruction + chilling presence
unparalleled plague fire
drow race (for darkfire debuff)
Prestidigitation 2/3
all dps companions (3 archons + siege master + another dps companion)
Cloak of the Protector (makes me tanky) + Int belt + Lantern artifact
main artifact is soul sight crystal
When I solo, I remove ray of enfeeblement and instead use icy terrain.
In dungeons, I prefer to be at far range (but within chaos magic range of party), and not put ice on the ground.
It's a playstyle I greatly enjoy. I'd love to take more buffs/debuffs, but dont want to lose much personal dps.
I don't see (or have) any problem at all with either Solo and specially Random Queue. What does Random queue has to do with the fact that you might be full debuff or hybrid or dps? Practically you don't need to change anything else than Swath or Combustive for Chilling Presence and you have very good dps to solo anything. Of course the encounters you will use will change but the same happens in a dungeon too. Its always best to adjust for the group we run or situation we are in.
You need also to remember that you don't have Bitter cold (team debuff) and more important your uptime isn't going to be that good on combustive debuff as you don't have Twisting Immolation, unless you can constantly do a daily every 6 seconds.
Renegade opp offers very good dps too and lets be honest for soloing, either path is fine.
Also there is the loadout mechanism. You want dps? one click... you want max debuff?, another click...
Today, when I did eToS (random queue) on my HR, my damage was about 10 times greater than the GWF,
and my HR is slow. The GWF was pretty much useless. The DC died during the final boss fight.
And then, I did Malabog's Castle (random queue) on my DC. There was a fast moving GF who killed almost every mob by himself, and quickly too. I changed my DC to DO because the mobs were usually dead by the time I arrived.
On my CW, I did eSoT. Some players would run ahead, some were falling behind. Often we were separated from each other, and even though my debuffs are a mere 50-80%, the boss still died in about 10 seconds.
Skirmishes (random queue) are full of monsters that die quickly. No need or time for buffs/debuffs on quickly dying mobs.
Players are often spread out (speed running) which means it hard to buff and debuff for everyone at the same time.
In harder dungeons and in epic trials (random queue), buffing/debuffing helps a lot, but only if the party already has high dps.
If you random queue and get FBI or MSP, sometimes there will be a new player in the party,
someone who just barely has enough item level, and this player might be "dps".
If you build your character with a focus on dps, then you already know how much dps you have.
If you build a buff/debuff character, then you are relying on the dps of others which is often unknown in a random queue.
Of course, you can make a pre-made random queue party, to run skirmishes, but that takes time.
When I do random queues, I quickly cycle through my characters, queueing solo.
If I dont like the party or the skirmish/dungeon, then I exit, take a leaver penalty, and change to next character.
I dont spend 5-15 minutes forming a party for a random queue.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1231982/official-feedback-thread-m12-armor-pen-and-damage-vulnerability-debuff-changes/p1
Here’s how things work now:
* The +200% hard cap is gone. Every additional debuff will help at least a little.
* There are diminishing returns capped at +300% bonus damage from these debuffs, ie, diminishing returns to bonus damage so that the total can never exceed (or even quite reach) +300%.
** Just to give a rough idea, at +1% to +60%, you won’t see much if any change. At +100%, you’ll get reduced to +92%. At +200% (the old hardcap) you’ll be at about +160%, and so on.
** Note bonus damage from Power and from various buffs on the attacker is not part of this system, and hasn’t changed in any way.
* Tooltips have been clarified to phrase everything as “enemies take more damage” to make it clear that (unlike with Armor Penetration) you CAN overcome an enemy’s defenses and do more than 100% damage.
Our intention with the new system is for all damage vulnerability debuff powers to have a chance to be relevant (without just breaking the game), and to have the whole system clearer and easier to understand.
Yep the diminishing returns quickly get pretty punitive.
Borrowing from your equation, it matches what rgutscheradev said at the top.
At 50% debuff -> 47.4% diminished actual
At 100% debuff -> 92.5% diminished actual
At 150% debuff ->129.5% diminished actual
At 200% debuff -> 158.3% diminished actual
At 250% debuff -> 180.4% diminished actual
At 300% debuff -> 197.7% diminished actual
At 350% debuff -> 211.3% diminished actual
At 400% debuff -> 222.3% diminished actual
At 450% debuff -> 231.2% diminished actual
At 500% debuff -> 238.5% diminished actual
So generally speaking:
Everything above ~200% is diminished by more than half (x0.5 effective)
Everything above ~300% is diminished by more than two thirds (x0.33 effective).
Everything above ~400% is diminished by more than four fifths (x0.2 effective)
And it continues to become more punitive as you go higher.
Replace the word CW with DC on all your examples... so, the DC is useless because your hr was good build but the gwf wasn't build good, DC is useless because the GF was running ahead and he kills everything....
and if you were dps CW how those would be different? you would still be back and the GF would be forward and killing, unless the dps cw runs faster than a mof...
Also for your other comments you do realize that specially in RQ where a lot of people dont utilize their builds well, the total team debuff without a mof is not even going to be 50% and probably less, right? So adding another 80% will get you to 130% total which will be diminished to 121% which is FAR below the point that diminishing returns hit hard (200%) which is still pretty good damage increase of about 50% for your entire team including you. Specially because a MoF can keep the debuffs up a LOT better than most classes (uptime).
Now if you go back on my post and read it I said you can switch one of the passives to chilling presence and do a LOT of damage BUT also help with the debuffs on your group. Debuffs anyway matter the most on boss fights and not on trash. Any class that runs ahead can solo clean the mobs in most cases including a Mof specially in MC. I can go and lure the entire mob crowd (all tower mobs) and kill them alone while you sit at campfire... and so do a lot others.
Dont get me wrong, play as you like and enjoy, its a game and you should play in the way you have fun on the role you prefer.
Or you may have to practically solo the dungeon/skirmish yourself, or leave without finishing.
Do not put much time/effort/AD into a specialized build which, in random queues, often will help little or not at all.
I play one build on my CW for everything! I made one alternate loadout, but never use it.
I have two loadouts on my DC (DO and AC) and do all content with that.
One loadout on my HR and do all content with that.
There are some players who debuff for the sake of debuffing simply because they enjoy debuffing.
There are some players who heal for the sake of healing simply because they enjoy healing.
There are some players who tank for the sake of tanking simply because they enjoy tanking.
Then, there are other players who focus on quickly completing the dungeon/skirmish/event with the generally most effective build and playstyle.
In order for a full debuff build to be the most effective choice:
(1) There must be other players with significant dps, and those players must be present: be near you, not falling behind you, not running ahead of you, not disconnected, not away from keyboard, not experiencing severe lag.
(2) dps increase which the party gains from your debuffs should exceed the dps lost when you spec full debuff instead of full dps or dps-debuff hybrid.
When you solo random queue, how do you know if the other players will have high dps? You don't.
How do you know if other random players will fall behind? or run ahead? or disconnect? or go afk? You don't know.
You know how much dps you have, but with random players, you are gambling on their performance.
With a full dps build, there is no dependence on other players. You can run ahead, and if your survivability
is enough, you can just kill everything yourself, sooner than waiting for other players to catch up.
I love debuffing. It's fun, but often it's not the most effective playstyle. Often, the most effective playstyle is to build a dps character with enough survivability to run ahead, and then you dont have to wait for other players. You dont have to depend on other players. Full debuff CW depends on other players, and that's a weakness/limitation.
(1) Both buffs (dc/paladin) and debuffs (mof) are a % increase of the original damage. So yes if the dps is ZERO the 100% of zero is still zero and that goes for both buffs and debuffs. So, little to do with the CW in general and a lot to do with the Damage Dealer of the group.
(2) I agree but that is case depended. Its not absolute, but yet you talk in absolute way like its always like that. Again a debuffer doesn't mean you don't do damage but neither it means that as a DPS you do top DPS. Keep inmind there are 3 DPS in the RQ (including you) So lets say you run with a decent HR and he outperforms you by twice the dps. For every million he does you do 500k (specially in bosses) By switching to a debuff setup you will give him, RoE 35%, Combustive 24%, Bitter cold 5% and you will lose one dps skill and one dps passive. So the team (not just the dps) will gain a 60% debuff on boss. In most cases the other dps as I said don't have many team debuffs and the average debuff will be at the 30% range and with your assist you took the debuffs to 100% range and you just gave the other dps a 55% boost in damage.
Which means 3 dps (including you) will do 55% more while you will lose... what? 1 dps skill and 1 dps passive.
So if before they were doing
100k - 70k and you - 60k = 230k
after with 50% buff from debuffs
150k - 105k and you - 50k = 305k
Now if both the other 2 DPS aren't good, that has nothing to do with debuffs as the buffs will also be equally useless too.
So as I said, being able to adjust to your group is far better option than being stereotypical about ONLY being one or the other. If your party needs dps.. loadout... If they need debuffs/hybrid build... loadout (or change 2 skills)
You don't know either about the opposite. If the DC stays far from you you wont have any buffs either.. so a dc should not play buff but be pure dps for the same reason...
see the problem of the logic here? you don't actually, as your dps depends on the other people buffs and build. You have a baseline for your dps yes but that's it...
Now why we are having this argument at all? The original poster asked a specific question.
"COMPANIONS AND STATS PRIORITIZATION FOR BUFF/DEBUFF MOF CW"
the debate if DPS or hybrid is better in random queues or solo has nothing to do with this. Keep running what you like and let the others decide what they want for the runs they get in. Not everyone is worried about RQ and not many run it in the first place to be honest.
Again my advice, adjust to your group. Don't be stereotypical.
PS: If you rq for fbi and you run ahead alone....
This is not about logic or about winning the argument. This is about the reality of random queues.
Your random queue experiences seem to be vastly different than my random queue experiences.
Here's a thread with numerous complaints about random queue's.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1236740/why-dont-i-see-more-lfm-rq-epic-dung
Mainly because many of the people I run with get random snrs and crashes that can last well over 5 mins, meaning they will get booted before they can come back. I don't want to get trapped in FBI or Spellplague with half of a premade where the other half (random replacements) can't help to complete. because you asked me a question, and I replied. In dungeons, loadouts can only be changed at campfires. And you know nothing about a random party, until after entering the dungeon. Will you start as a full debuff in a random party? Or will you start as a full dps or hybrid dps-debuff?
While you are inspecting other players to determine which loadout to use, it's likely that one or more players has already started, and you are falling behind, and adding more time to the run.
When you play with unknown, random people, in general, presume the worst, which means, you might have to solo that dungeon. As the dungeon is cleared, if players show good performance, then later, consider more buffing/debuffing/etc.
Anyway... just to clear things, we have 3 things on us that de/buff mainly. 4 feats - 2 passives-and 1 encounter. Rest are the same for either full debuff, hybrid, or full dps. The passive and encounter you can change them on the fly and so there is no need for campfire.
Now exceptions will always happen but that's why we call them exceptions, because its not the rule. Queuing solo for epic RQs, yes there is a need to be worried to be honest, but hey, in 3 man dungeon there is no need for anything at all. Your companion can do the kills.