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We should probably have a level cap on RQ Dungeons
jumpingmorks
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
I know it looks like I'm shooting myself in the foot here, but I'd rather have a level cap 10k-12k on RQ Dungeons because as it stands I can just see Cryptic saying players abused a system they disagreed with and didn't want.
If Cryptic think the current system is being abused it should be capped now rather than blaming the player base retoractively like they did the chest decline debacle. (Which, as of that last blog post, no action will be taken, yet).
However, if they are totally fine with it, it would be nice to get a confirmation.
If Cryptic think the current system is being abused it should be capped now rather than blaming the player base retoractively like they did the chest decline debacle. (Which, as of that last blog post, no action will be taken, yet).
However, if they are totally fine with it, it would be nice to get a confirmation.
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Separate -suggestions open- FBI and mSP from random epic
Create a new tier with the above,or leave them out completely from random epic.
Scale better the leveling random dungeons ,or put a level cap.13k L70s running with 2k L12s ,are not fun for either.
Take out the level70s from leveling dungeons,asap.
Reintroduce some skirmishes ,as they are in CTAs ,in random epic/random normal and skirmishes.Just to add some variety.(with the neccessary changes-adds level etc)
Abberant Assault would make a nice candidate for a skirmish or a random epic.(After the necessay adjustments ofcourse-doors +campfires ,so to block running ahead plus make adds and bosses level73 or 71)
Scaling ain't gonna come any time soon, we'll get the lost dungeons back before they get scaling sorted.
What will be missing from it is this part:
"Due to adjusted average run times we have resealed the reward, of both the loot table and the RQ. To grant better rewards for the run-times" (Or move more AD to the epic dungeons...
Instead it will be:
"Rest assured that we will keep monitoring the run times and the rewards in the adjusted dungeons" And it will be kept monitored until long forgotten.
I'll explain why im confused first,
So the main reason most of us use the random queue is so we can get our daily AD. To run a dungeon for any other reason you can still use the normal queues. And generally speaking we want to complete those AD runs quickly so that we can do other things like running other dungeons, campaigns, quests, skirmishes, ect ect.
So my question is,
Why are people upset about having someone plow through a dungeon and killing everything when it just makes your AD run that much quicker and easier?
Im honestly not trying to be a jerk here, Im just confused by threads like these. God, I'd love to do an AD run where all I have to is just run to the end to get my AD lol. I mean honestly, even when I use the normal queue, there is nothing better then joining a dungeon group that's already at the last boss..... at least for me.
even with the old system we could run the lvling dungeons to earn our daily AD. And they knew we did and thy added that ability into the new system so exactly how are they going to claim anyone is abusing the system?
And lets be fair, if need be cryptic will make up an excuse to change something if they need to. Anyone remember the promise they made us (and broke) about not taking the coal wards out of the Tbar store?
Others especially new players run dungeon for the experience.
You run that dungeon 2000 times already.
For a new player, that could be their first times.
You run that dungeon for speed, for AD/min efficiency.
For a new player, they may want to pick up (useless for you) loot so that they can use it or exchange for gold.
Bonus question: when you run MC, did you ever explore everywhere once? If not, why not?
Just because you do RQ to earn AD, the other member of your party does not necessary join you through RQ. They could just pick Cloak Tower through non-RQ public queue and the system drops you there.
If you want a good experience with a run, bring your friends.
Why are people upset about having someone plow through a dungeon and killing everything when it just makes your AD run that much quicker and easier?"
This is part of the problem. Many players don't kill everything. They take no real damge from the mobs, so they run past to get to the final boss as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, if there are actual leveling players in the LEVELING dungeons, they are left to solo what is supposed to be group content. And they can't.
The queues are not separated, If we have a new level 12 player queuing for their dungeon (I think it's CT) in public Q (not random), they will start waiting, lets assume there is no currently other players, and I Random queue to leveling dungeons, it will put me to fill that new player party.
Random queue were specifically designed to fill matchmaking needs to make the queues faster. This is not an AD run for the new player. It's their first one of the first interactions of group content in the game. Many don't like to play a game where you don't do anything but just run like an idiot. Like an example from another thread, buying an FPS with all the enemies already dead.... What you payed for?
(loose example just for the point)
Don't mistaken the groups of people, if you want to take my ungeared alts for free AD, sure, I'll just set /follow and feel free to kill anything and everything. But not everyone you meet in leveling dungeons is there to grind AD. Yes, and that mechanic where level 70 clear the dungeons brings more people and mentality of do nothing just get AD and leave.
I too honestly love freebies from time to time, and free dungeon end.
But at the end I play this game for the group content, not for the repetitive grind it became, but more for the older longer CN that took time (at some point) to over come and at the end it was usually a split loot that was worth hefty sum.
And no offense, I, as expected, also prefer to play with people with the same mindset (more or less). With people who prefer some challenge, and adequate reward. Yet the current system filters out those people. They will quit after few attempts, and leaves the people who look for the quick fast grind. Unfortunately the rewards are also balanced around this so it's a repetitive grind for almost nothing. Instead of one CN for 1mil AD, people now need to run 10k AD leveling dungeons on practically BiS chars... (And this is nothing against the players, this is how the reward system designed now, just look at Tomb drop rates).
Maybe I'm on the wrong, and the fast way is the correct one.. who knows... But at current rate, in a month, two, mod, two, I assume, we will have more players that expect to be carried, and understand group mechanic even less than now, expecting faster, easier runs, and this will in turn make new rewards appropriate (not that they are stellar now).
And we go this route:
With hours of repeated grind and super HAMSTER rewards.
How do I scale? A function, it can be linear transferring 4k to 400, and 15k to 1.5, or not linear for example transferring 4k to 500k, and 15k to 1k (numbers are just for example). This can adjust global stats, or per item stats, or if needed other solutions can be used like a stat table for enchantments.
It depends on the specific inner working of the game design, and the specific issues there are with scaling. Not necessarily, a simple counter example will be just capping the stats, lets say that at level 12 you can have at most 2k stats. Distributed the same ratios you have the original stats. It wont matter at all if you were BiS or 4k, you will have the same thing there. And this is in essence what a non linear transfer function is. True, and other things, like shorter CD on mythic artifacts, etc.. But I don't believe the aim is to make you exactly level 12, but to make it not roflstompy, and for that you only need 'close enough'. There is an issue with rank4? no problem adjust the encounter damage modifiers by 30% down. Problem solved.
It all depends on what can be modified, what the target is, and what the issues..But it's far cry from "not going to happen"
It's not difficult conecptiually, it's done in other games, and there are plenty of options to do it with the stats / modifiers we have in game. Even naive implementations like a constant debuff to adjust damage output / cap it. It will jsu take time to make it right, they will need to put someone on it for a week or two, and usually they just don't do it.
On a side note. I would like to know, how many new players run random dungeons or skirmishes, at all. Without min IL, my experience is, that I get grouped with a bunch of undergeared alts, in it for the quick AD fix.
Last but not least, 'exclude players with a higher IL, then 12k IL', really? First of all, this it a absolute random number and would penalize the few ppl, who did gear up and the second point is, who would stop me, from stripping gear and reequipping it, once I am in the dungeon.
Another example is to cap damage directly. Or diminish return it to the target area you want.
Then it wont matter if you are BiS or not, you will have the intended difficulty regardless. Or in the anticipated range.
I'll use the example with IL but it can be done the same with stats directly, or with damage. Lets say we want a target IL of 1k to 2k.
So lets Translate 5k and lower to 1k and 20k and higher to 2k, I didn't bother to make it pretty or anything:
y=0.565*x^.40925 and caps:
We can play with it however we want, to make the range wider or narrower, so gear will influence more or less. The downside of narrower range (or a very good scaling) is that people wont gear up because gear will make little difference, in normal dungeons it requires a proper scale of reward and the choice to scale is not always the best one.
But to the topic if scaling is possible, and not extremely difficult, IMO, very much so.
Yes, there are various bonuses, and not only 'stats' or 'il' but we have two main categories, direct damage and gain.
AP gain, recovery, various CDs, all can be scaled.
And direct damage can be scaled directly regardless of it's source. So at the end, we don't even have to deal with sources, like powers, encounters, buffs, debuffs, or what not.
Slap a dungeon wide 'debuff' on level 70 players that cripple their (our) damage with the same idea as above, and no BiS or BiS will matter. A BiS wet noodle is still a noodle. Yes, we don't know. From my limited expiriance in those (only tried after the RQ thing), you can tell the new players by how they are slowly looking around, getting lost, picking the chests and professions nodes. AD alts don't do it. I think in all my runs that were not premade except one there was a new player.
IMO, the new player expiriance there is not good. That's probably not me. I've only posted about scaling.