Should all push powers be removed because it seems that cryptic cannot make quests..

luvirini · October 2017

... that do not break with them?

It seems that a lot of quests have places where if some idiot uses a push power the thing breaks.

As examples of recent things:
Temple of spider: the last 3 of 4 runs have failed because doors do not open because someone has pushed some critter to a ledge below that cannot be reached.
Both the pirate quests in chult have water that is deadly to players but enemies can walk there just fine so pushed down enemies are unreachable unless you have ranged characters along.

I have seen it in other quests too(many many..), but those two are things that I have seen in the last few days.

So should powers like sunburst, repel and similar be removed as even new content seems to get the same problems or does someone thing they can actually fix all the quests?

karvare · October 2017

It has been my experience, the pirate quest in chult would still be a problem. I never use powers that move mobs, and yet the pirates can still end up in the water. Fix the problem, don't remove the powers.

asterotg · October 2017

The problem is not the push power, but bad design. It should not be possible for critters, to end somewhere, where the player cant reach them.

In Mod 1 many runs included a mechanic, of chain CCs. Tank gets aggro, CW uses Orb in front of a hole and repelled the mobs to death. You can try this somehow in EToS with the phase spiders, if there is no dmg crazy DD pulling them. Go in with a GF. Select a position right in front of the chasm and tab the spider. It will port behind you and fall to its death.

Push powers are a amazing tool, the problem is, that there is no use for them anymore.

pitshade · October 2017

You can reset mobs to their starting positions by dying. Not an elegant workaround but generally effective. It doesn't always come to that, however. Many times if you can get to the edge of the mob's pursue range, but not outside it, they will teleport free of obstructions to follow you.

That said, push and knockback powers really have no place in PVE and haven't since throwing mobs off of cliffs was the way to clear dungeons.

salvo01 · October 2017

Honestly, having run in PuG's with people using Push and Knockback incorrectly, I wouldn't mind seeing these powers limited or changed to not have the ability to push / knockback given the bugs they cause, and the frustration it can create when people use them mindlessly and destroy party synergy (like tanking and DPS) and/or push/knockback enemies off ledges into unreachable areas that are fatal to player characters but not to enemies.

Given how terrible many PuG players are, I feel like most MMO's shouldn't allow knockback/push powers, especially if using them makes the game experience worse. Developers I feel, should design for the lowest common denominator and before launching any power or game element, stop and think, "What would a total moron or griefer do with this? What's the least responsible and most disruptive way to use this?"

And if they find something game-breaking or easily exploitable, or just something that ruins the QoL of competent players, they should adjust or remove that problem element.

preechr · October 2017

Not only that, but some perfectly good powers are rendered unusable in most group play because we know better
We have so few encounter slots, it doesn't make sense to equip an encounter that screws up party play 95% of the time just because it might be fine, or even really useful, 5% of the time in a dungeon

armadeonx · October 2017

knock 'down' is better than knock 'back' but I'm not sure I'd go as far as to remove all of them. Repel has its (specific) uses, but generally the aoe ones are annoying as hell.

ollybongo89 · October 2017

I have an issue with the power duno wat its called the knockback powers.

In wod doing the he encounters, specifically the one on the left where you have to protect that guy.
Once it is in overload state btw...

When ppl use knockback the power that makes evemies move, ive seen it plenty of times they keep moving them towards the cliff where the rope bridge is.

When the overload boss gets knocked off that cliff it auto fails the encounter...

ecrana · October 2017

I don't think powers should be eliminated because of poor player choices when running in groups. Yes, some players are incapable of seeing the negative impact running things like sunburst or repel can be in a group. But I'm willing to accept that as long as I have an option to use that power when running solo. The powers aren't poorly designed. Users just don't know what they're doing when they choose to run it. Okay, in some cases users do know and choose to run knockbacks just to troll people. But that's still not a good enough reason for the removal of a power that has it's place to me.

preechr · October 2017

Maybe any push or knock power should invert in a dungeon or HE, pushing the player off a cliff, or in the case of an omnidirectional push, possibly squishing them into a tiny ball... it could still do damage or apply any other effects of the power, but by just reversing the force, good players could still make them useful and bad players and trolls would at least be minimalized

pitshade · October 2017

> @ollybongo89#3420 said:
> I have an issue with the power duno wat its called the knockback powers.
>
> In wod doing the he encounters, specifically the one on the left where you have to protect that guy.
> Once it is in overload state btw...
>
> When ppl use knockback the power that makes evemies move, ive seen it plenty of times they keep moving them towards the cliff where the rope bridge is.
>
> When the overload boss gets knocked off that cliff it auto fails the encounter...

The issue is that the Overload HE can summon a Glabrezu mob as a boss, but that mob is not normally a boss and consequently not control immune. Griefers took note of this and try to fail the encounter. Icewind Pass is just as bad for it.

ravenskya · October 2017

The knock back powers can be annoying at times... but they are also useful

My two favorite DC's stand in the green orb at orcus and just sunburst the zombies out of the way so we can kill them more quickly

Another DC I know uses it to clear the mobs from around the souls in ToNG so the souls can be seen more easily

In EToS I've seen the powers used to pretty much clear the dungeons of almost everything (including knocking dryders off the cliff)

BUT - the fact that the mobs can get stuck in an unkillable location is where the problem lies. So if that were fixed the powers would still be annoying when used improperly by PUGS but wouldn't be dungeon breakers.

karvare · October 2017

As an OP, I simply hate knock back. The mobs that are not hitting me are not boosting my power and I'm not sharing that buffed power. However, players who want to use those powers should be able to, it may drive me from the group but they have a right to play their way too. Limiting play because it disrupts your play style is short sighted.

Should all push powers be removed because it seems that cryptic cannot make quests..

Comments